everwoodfan52

I believe it's Season three- "Shoot the Moon". Harold was upset with Amy for choosing a University to be close to her boyfriend.
I was also taken aback when Amy said what she did. I was not a viewer of Everwood the time when there was all of the uproar about Amy's statement....but if I was....I'm sure that I would have been part of it!
How could Amy say that Colin was the man that she wanted to spend the rest of her life with?!? Especially when she realized what she had now with Ephram. She must have realized that what she had with Ephram was purer and the real deal. It's as if the writers change the history of the show whenever they feel like it in order to fit in certain dialogue.

'Tos

Ohhh, that scene. Yeah. Well, I completely agree with what everyone's said about that one. Not great writing at all. I appreciate that she doesn't forget Colin, that would have been fine. Bringing him up, as a reminder of something that did change, that things can happen. But saying that she found the person she wanted to be with, meaning Colin, in S3? When she's with Ephram? *scratches head* Odd, odd writing choice.

ShadowMagist

I don't necessarily think it was bad writing. Amy may have idolized her relationship with Colin, but I don't think her arc in season 2 could've held up as well as it did if she didn't truly think he was her "one". When she was going onto birth control, she still maintained her love for him even though she was with Tommy. Let us also not forget that Amy and Ephram broke up momentarily almost immediately after he got back from New York. Shoot The Moon wasn't too far after that episode, so I don't see why everyone's coming down so hard on her for that. She was just getting into her relationship with Ephram and it had already had a major roadbump.

I can easily see why she'd still hold Colin up like she did....

everwoodfan52

I believe that fan reaction to the scene depended upon one's feelings toward Colin. Of course, 'Tos is the exception (his own man...that 'Tos!). Anyway, People like me who were pulling for Ephram from the beginning to get Amy and felt that Colin was not the true deal resented what she said because we feel that Amy should feel the way we do.....Ephram was the one....the only one. Of course, people who were sympathetic to Colin agree with what Amy said. It's all a matter of point of view...like everything else in life!

then you must kiss me

sigh, I don't remember any of this at all. *makes minuscule post compared to others*

'Tos

Well, I do believe that Amy felt that he was the one for a time, and she definitely planned a future around him. I think that's why season two happens. Everything that she had dreamed, had hoped for, is gone and she's left to pick up her life. But to the extent that she loved him, or thought he was the one, I think she loved the idea of him, the thought of the idea of being with him, more than the reality of who he was.

My problem is that by this point, she has gotten over Colin by a fairly great deal, has started a relationship with Ephram, went on a plane with him. She chose him. There has been a bump in the road, but she had many many more of those with Colin in S1 and that never stopped anything. She began planning for a new life at the point she got on the plane with Ephram, which is the whole point of "Shoot the Moon", how she ends up deciding colleges for him. So, it all felt a little unnecessary for me for her to say what she did about Colin? I think it's more the phrasing of what she said, though, than anything.

I'm not explaining it all very well.

jediwands

Thanks. Yes, I was over there. The entire board exploded. I never entered those chats nightly after episodes but I would read the transcripts and people were so pissed off over that scene. And yes, Betty, you are right... that scene took place in "Shoot The Moon."

And Betty when you said this:

^^^ You just perfectly summed up where everyone was coming from when the episode aired that same evening. I mean, dead on perfect. That's what everyone was saying in their own way and man, rage is the best description if I had to tag a type of popular emotion going on. Myself included. I remember my one friend telling me to calm down, it wasn't real life. I looked at her in disbelief, responding with, "Yes it is real life, it's Everwood!"

Solid point. Colin circled around throughout the entire series. Sort of like Julia. Only on Everwood would the ghosts of these two be present in such a profound way.

Yeah. I've sadly never seen him on anything but Everwood.

Indeed. Great points. The conversation Bright and Harold have regarding this is purely amazing. One of those really deep convos between father/son where you see the love between them as Harold realizes Bright is starting to grow up as he is starting to endure and tackle the complexities of life. The Bright/Ephram friendship that eventually blossoms is another example of Bright's journey to maturity. You see Bright's progress from his childhood friendship with Colin to his future lifelong friendship with Ephram in a way that is really beautiful.

I think ironically Colin and Ephram both taught Amy and Bright many lessons in life. Colin sort of passed the torch to Ephram who took on other avenues for Amy and Bright's growth.

You are very charming when you do this which makes it all the more warmly manipulative.

Oh yes, well we can bond over our Madison hatred because I despise Madison in a way that makes it look like I have a love affair going on with Colin. Part of my problem with Madison is even her treatment of Andy that I found really disgusting at times. Of course Andy wasn't necessarily great to her once she came out being pregnant so maybe a balancing of karma there? Heh. But even Madison's interaction with Delia made me want to blow smoke. LOL. There was just something about her "know it all" attitude that made me want to shoot hockey pucks at her head more times than not.

Hee. "Shoot the Moon" and it's the convo with Harold and I'm typically horrible with coming up with this on my own (Alex asked me about a scene today in season 2 and I'm like, "Huh?" of course her hunch was correct, she double checks and finds out she's right practically before my "Huh" was out of my mouth LOL) but I only remember this because of the uproar at FB. Oh boy was it passionate anger over there. Like I said, pure rage.

You absolutely explained this soundly. That was the big thing... at the stage of when Amy said this it was just so oddly inserted in there. She is wanting to plan her life around Ephram at this point (which we find out she sort of regrets a tad in later episodes) but nevertheless she gets that they are the real deal so for her to bring Colin back into it, people just felt like she had reverted back to seasons 1/2 with those comments. The entire scene was so weird. She made it seem like Ephram was her second choice, almost, and that infuriated everyone. I still cannot watch that scene. LOL. I truly can't. I fast-forward it while in fast-forward motion still noticing how hot Emily is but aside from VanCamps hotness I do not recognize Amy there because she's speaking Chinese and Chinese is not a language I understand. LOL.

'Tos

Absolutely. Well put. Watching S2, I am adoring how Everwood allowed characters to deal with death. Full season for Amy, more for Andy. Characters don't die and then you forget about them, they die for a reason. And not shock value like a lot of other shows. When characters die, it pushes the characters into new, darker directions and has them grow. I do think it's a pretty unique feature of Everwood. No show that I can think of allowed Delia FOUR seasons of dealing with her mother's memory. That's just...so Everwood, isn't it. It's real. It's dark. It's not easy. Can you tell that I'm on a huge "I love Everwood" kick at the moment?

Yes! Very well said. I loved Ephram and Bright's friendship right after Colin, and it comes at the time where Bright is trying to buckle down and study, or when he's being such a great son to Harold and Rose when they need him so much with Amy gone and in a severe depression. I really like Bright in S2. He does kind of revert at some points in S3, and obviously he's still immature, but he has these moments that just wow me. Like Harold's birthday, when Amy doesn't come, and he's just SO amazing. And Ephram really channels this new kind of Bright even just by being someone that Bright can give advice to. He's not used to giving advice, he's used to taking it. Ephram needs help in relationships, and even if Bright's advice kind of sucks at times, hee, he tries.

Now that's a hatred! I feel the exact same way as you do about her. I have actually found myself fast-forwarding some parts of her scenes during my rewatch with the DVD. Of course, it doesn't help that I know what's going to happen at the end of the season with her. Compared to her, I'm actually tolerating Tommy!

So, admitting how I'm fastforwarding my favourite show to bypass Madison, I think I completely understand you skipping that "Shoot the Moon" scene, even when it is your favourite should and your favourite Hot Amy. She does look amazing in the scene. Maybe you could just mute it and pretend she's saying something else, hee. "Oh, Dad, Ephram was always the one. I always knew it, but I didn't want to admit it." See, you can substitute that in now.

everwoodfan52

I loved Bright and Ephram's friendship season 2. I had mentioned a while back that I believe that Bright was a really good friend to Ephram.....much better friend than Ephram was to him. He actually listened to Ephram's problems and really cared. He did his darndess to try to help Ephram. Ephram, on the other hand, tended to often be self-centered. He was so concerned about ranting on and on about his own issues and problems, that Bright often really didn't have a chance to seek out help from Ephram or even have someone to listen to him. As much as I love Ephram....that really used to annoy me.

'Tos

Commplllettely agreed. Like, I can't agree more, hee. That's why Bright is so great for so much of S2. In fact...it might be my favourite season of Bright. I don't know. Maybe S4. Still, he's just so likable in S2 because he's always trying.

And I know that relationships are hard, and this is Ephram's first one and it feels like that's what your life is all about and all that, but holy crap Ephram, Bright actually had some major problems that you could have actually bothered to listen to and help. His sister just moved out, is in a depression, on anti-depressants, is dating a drug addict. His father doesn't even want to be at home and when he, he fights with Rose. Bright is in danger of not getting into college, and got kicked off the football team.

I mean, hello, Ephram!!?? Help! Just as Bright has advice about relationships, Ephram should have advice about family issues. I mean, come on. Yes, Ephram is so self-centered and has so much tunnel vision in S2, when his friend is going through hell and Ephram won't shut up about him and Madison.

But I do think that's what Colin (to bring that back to this thread, hee) and Ephram have in common. They do get self-centered and get tunnel vision. I actually think part of why Bright doesn't often care that Ephram is only talking about his problems, is he was used to helping Colin as well? I'm not sure. There's not much evidence either way, really, but I'm speculating on why Bright doesn't yell at Ephram and tell him to listen.

CuddleBug09

Add me here, please

everwoodfan52

You're added! Welcome, CuddleBug!

then you must kiss me

aw, sad, I didn't get to do it... I actually read the short posts! (aka nothing in this thread)

jediwands

Tos and Betty, I am so with you on season 2 Bright and how great of a friend he was to Ephram, when, at times, Ephram wasn't that great of a friend to Bright. Totally agree. And outstanding observation, Tos, going with the parallel of Ephram/Colin and why Bright was very much a terrific friend to the both of them, even when both could be entirely self centered at times. Of course the good part of all of this is who was the friend to Bright in the end whenever Colin or Ephram really couldn't be whenever he needed them the most? Harold, which rocked the house, because Harold/Bright was such a special relationship. Could be rocky but boy when father and son bonded, they bonded to the highest degree which I absolutely loved seeing.

You are and you're on a beautiful roll with the brilliant thoughts.

I know it... this is precisely what made Everwood so real. The ability to keep things so natural. In real life do you get over death in two episodes like some shows portray it as? No way! Everwood shows the natural progression of how one mourns someone they lost who was near and dear to them. You keep a part of this person always directly in your heart, it's in everything you do. One step forward, two steps back sometimes, and that's how Everwood showed it. Death is natural, death is real, death is something that stays with you, death and life are intertwined, it is all a part of the happiness and sadness of life, both happen interchangeably and boy did Everwood show this in such a beautiful way. I have never witnessed another show comimg close to accomplishing this... not like how our Everwood did it.

Absolutely. I actually thought it was very interesting how Bright progressed. Like even when you mourn a death, the one step forward, two steps back thing applies here. Bright was pretty horrific at times in season 1, season 2 comes and he had an awakening of sorts, well that actually started to happen back at the end of season 1. So by season 2 he is starting the process of maturity and he's on a roll, does a very good job minus a few hiccups. Everwood, being as real as it is, shows how he isn't suddenly this perfect person, because, who really is perfect anyway? No one. So Bright reverts a bit with the cheating and stuff like that. Season 4 we see more growth, though, towards the end of the series. It was so natural and felt soooooooooo real. That's Everwood.

Oh man, me too.

Thing is, Tommy was Tommy but at least he never appeared to be "better" than anyone. He often wondered, you could tell, why on earth Amy would want someone like him and while he never really apologized for who he was and he had some horribly irritating and maddening behavior, at least you didn't feel like he wanted to rule what was going on around him. He was real, he never acted better than anyone, what you saw with him was what you got, yeah a lot of it was not so good but at least he never acted self righteous and better than anyone... unlike someone who has the same name of a big city in Wisconsin... Madison.

I am doing that from now on! Hahahaha. It's true though, my God she looks so good there, doesn't she? I can't help it, pure Emily hotness at its finest. Absolutely positively. Heh.

'Tos

This gets TWO And that's all I can really add, hee. Julia stays in Andy's heart for four decisions, and almost everything he does for two seasons is about her. Amy, she's got Colin with her, almost literally, for about 16 episodes of season two, and she needed to move on. Andy obviously had a lot longer of a life with Julia, but I do think the series showed that sometimes the weight of her memory really pushed him down at times. Amy was in major danger of that happening, so she really did need to say goodbye to him. Even if it did involve drugs and crazy techno music. I really do think that we were cheated out of what would have been another brilliant morning period with Edna in a S5. So thanks Dawn Ostroff for that!

I'd do a double nod again, hee, but I can only have so many smileys in one post! I also loved that the writers showed one of his greater moments of maturity associated with Colin: how he wouldn't use Colin's death as a reason he failed math. That was a choice he had to make, and he knew the consequences and ultimately had to live with them, but making a hard choice was just the very embodiment of Bright being so much more responsible and mature and growing up. He makes another one in S4 in "Foreverwood" by telling Hannah to leave, to go to a great college, and it pays off there, but I like that one of his first major signs of maturity involved his best friend. Colin wouldn't want him to lie and benefit like that from his death, so he benefited differently, by growing up.

Plus he never sang.

But yeah, I agree. He actually should be a lot more of an annoying character, and he's certainly the worse person, but I at least stuck with his scenes. Maybe that's because a certain Emily was in them, though, hee. Well, no, I really liked Greg's acting with Madison, and I even like Sarah Lancaster now, but..just not Madison!

Even Colin would have that elitist and entitled quality about him at times, but I could stand it. I'm not sure why I can't with Madison. I just don't very much care for her is all, I guess.