unbridledbeauty

I think he at least kept the ring until Jane ended things this last time. Now, I'm not so sure, but I like to think he still has it.

Any speculation as to what happened with him and Nadine all those months? I wonder if they got together again. He didn't seem to trust her very much, so I doubt it. I also wonder if she's really dead? From the look on Michael's face at the funeral, he seems to think so.

courtneybangelcakes

New thread Happy to see this thread booming. Adore the title.

LaisF

Michael has this unbelievable faith that he and Jane belong together that I find it hard that he thrown away the engagement ring. (Or I like to think so).
But I think it in those 6 months he had so little time to process everything about the break up that I believe that he didn’t handled the small details and the ring is kept in a drawer or something like that, just out of sight.

I don’t think anything happened between him and Nadine, Michael seems to be on a really personal mission to catch Sin Rostro that I don’t believe he would leave things more complicated sleeping with Nadine again.
I think she's dead or I hope, I'm not a big fan of arc pretending characters’ deaths. Killed the character, let him dead.

EnglishRoses

Yes. Agree Family is more than just a blood connection, of course, but since Jane & Rafael are actively making a decision to be some kind of unit for their child, they can be considered a family. But also yes, that does not have to be synonymous with romantic love, and Rafael's attachment to that idea really rubs me the wrong way. Especially when he brings up the fact that him and Jane being together romantically would be 'best for Mateo.' It's his own happiness he's thinking about there, no one else's, and the nature of Jane and Rafael's partnership would not affect Mateo as long as it was a partnership that was strong, unified and present. The truth is, Rafael is being selfish here and using Mateo to have Jane in the way he wants her, which she is not beholden to just because they have a child. I think that's far more possessive than anything Michael has ever done.

As for Michael being the one Jane marries, Michael has seemed the only believable choice to be Jane's groom for me since around episode 20 of season 1. The season finale pretty much solidified that belief and the entirety of season 2 so far has done nothing to convince me otherwise. Her relationship with Rafael has slowly dissolved (and is still dissolving) whereas her relationship with Michael is actually getting stronger, despite external forces i.e the fight, Rafael's involvement etc. Despite these obstacles, her 'connection' and 'attachment' to Michael is actually growing. At this point, her marrying anyone else would be totally unreasonable. I think one of the main functions of this 'forced separation' is to disguise that fact and keep us guessing. It's just a distraction, I believe.

In regards to the ring, I've always had this idea in my head of a scene later down the line where it is revealed Michael still has it. Even after everything. Knowing Michael's character, it just seems like a sweet, romantic moment the show might do after Jane and Michael finally sort things out and find their way back to one another. The revelation that he still has the ring, after everything, would just be the cherry on top of it all, and would bring this arc full circle. Like a physical representation of the idea that he never gave up on them. I can see it happening.

unbridledbeauty

I would venture to say Mateo would be better off (or at least not negatively affected) if Jane was in a healthy married relationship with someone she loves, trusts, and is compatible with, than to be forced to be with his biological father and have a potentially tumultuous and/or inharmonious marriage. Whether or not Jane and Rafael could work in a married relationship is up for debate. After all, there are feelings there, and the desire for it to work for their child's sake. But I will never believe that is what will make her the happiest. Why settle for simply making a marriage work when you could be with someone who makes you crazy happy, and still do right by your child?

Completely agree on them distracting us from Jane and Michael being the ones getting married. Or attempting to distract us. I'm not very distracted, it's kind of obvious Michael still has Jane's heart, and always will. And that she has his, even if he's in denial right now. The only way they wouldn't be the ones getting married would be if the writers completely break down their characters and ignore everything that has happened between her and Michael since the beginning.

This would make me so happy.

Me either! Let the dead stay dead. I kinda feel sorry for her, though. She DID save Michael's life, after all, for which we can be grateful.

LaisF

Yep, Nadine saved Michael’s life just shows the good person he is, and Rafael’s views about him are misleading.

EnglishRoses

Basically, there are a ton of people who know Michael a hell of a lot more than Rafael does - Nadine/Xo/Alba/Rogelio/his brother/not to mention Jane! - and who do not think he is anywhere near shady. Those are the opinions which matter and hold weight. Rafael's biased opinion of his love rival does not.

drunkalice

Rafael knows a Michael that instantly hated him and was convinced that he was Sin Rostro (ngl at one point I suspected it too ) so in a way I understand his dislike for him. But when he says he's shady he's as wrong about Michael as Michael was about him, except that at least Michael didn't really know him.

EnglishRoses

I suppose Rafael could be somewhat forgiven since the start of their relationship was so sour, but I'm only willing to give him partial benefit of the doubt because that initial view of Michael shouldn't still stand given that Michael has actually been extremely gracious to Rafael and even helped him on occasion since then. Their relationship had actually improved a lot by that point and it's like Rafael is forgetting about all of that when saying Michael is not a good guy. Idk it just bothers me. Especially when he tried to tell Jane that she was wrong about Michael when she defended him, as if implying he knew better than she did about a guy she was in a relationship with for two years.

And yeah, you're right. Michael had suspicions about Rafael's character, but he was ignorant and didn't know better. He didn't know him. So it was easy for him to speculate and convince himself he was no good. Rafael knows Michael better with the benefit of time, and has even been on the receiving end of Michael's help and kindness, and still tries to imply that he is not a good person. Ugh

unbridledbeauty

Completely agree. The time that has passed from the beginning of season 1 until now is significant. When Michael was first investigating Rafael he knew nothing about him, and there were plenty of little evidences that legitimately threw him into suspicion. But the MOMENT Michael knew Sin Rostro was not Rafael, he completely dropped his investigation into Rafael, and did not come after him any more after that. I remember being impressed that he dropped the issue very suddenly as soon as the facts became clear.

Rafael has had a year since the investigation to observe Michael's character and be a beneficiary of his kindness, so for him to think Michael STILL had it out for him was totally not fair. Not only that, but if he knows Jane as well as he thinks he does, does he really believe she would fall in love with a guy who was a terrible person?

The time issue is what's so frustrating, like you said, EnglishRoses. It's the same as with the lying. Michael lied over a year ago, and has not lied since. Rafael lied to Jane ONE episode ago. It's like Michael can never be redeemed for something he did ages ago and apologized for and never did again.

I try not to think about the punching incident, because that is still so OOC in my opinion. I'm not sure how it changes the argument in favor of Michael's goodness. I don't want to be totally unfair...obviously it was wrong. But Rafael has done way worse things to Michael than Michael has done to him.

bscgirl99

I completely agree . Even if they were to fix Jane and Rafael, I don't think they would be at the point of marrying each other. I mean stranger things have happened, but them being the ones to marry wouldn't make sense. Whereas, I could see Jane and Michael wanting to get married not long after reconciling, as it was something they were already planning to do anyway before everything started.

I could see that happening too .

unbridledbeauty

Exactly. The only thing that worries me is that they'll do something completely OOC to Jane, just to stir up the plot and/or the fanbase. Since they did it to Michael, it's not entirely unbelievable that they would make her do something crazy.

But since Jennie is Jane's number one fan, and she made a big deal about it being true to Jane's character that she would choose Michael, I'm fairly hopeful she will continue to stay faithful to who Jane is.

LaisF

Changing a little the subject, do you think that the narrator can be trusted?
In the flashback when Jane and Michael first meet the narrator says that moments like that in telenovela it’s called "encuentro"(or something like that) when two people are destined to be together meet.
Then he says that Michael will always believe that he and Jane belong together until the day he dies. That we can assumes that he know things that we don’t.
But then, he also didn’t know that Rose is Sin Rostro.
Sometimes he seems to express Jane’s feeling perfectly, sometimes it seems that he’s only have the same information that us and sometimes it seems that the writers use to give tips what can/will happen.
The narrator it’s used the way the scenes/moments need?
But it always seems to me that the narrator is a little pro-Michael. How much reliable the narrator can be?

I don' tknow if this off the thread subject , but the narrator also helping to speculate and discuss theories about them.

EnglishRoses

Yes. This exactly. I've said before that Michael is like the punching bag of the fandom, but it's also true in the show. Especially in Rafael's view of him. It's so drastic. I really hope Jane's reaction to Rafael's lying is as severe as it was with Michael because at least that will even the score a little.

And this Which makes Rafael's ideas about him that much more unreasonable...

That's pretty interesting actually, and something I hadn't really thought much about before. I'd always trusted the narrator, but you're right. He really didn't know that Rose was Sin Rostro. And he seemed pretty shocked when Nadine pointed the gun at Michael, too. I'm really confused about that actually. He seems to know a lot about some characters, including their motivations and true feelings despite what they actually say. Whereas he seems to be in the dark about others, such as Rose. I wonder if there's a reason for that and if we'll ever find out. Jennie apparently mentioned in an interview a while ago that we would eventually find out who the narrator is, so maybe that revelation will clear things up a little. I agree with you though that the narrator does seem to be pro-Michael. He's always saying stuff to make fun of Rafael, and then generally being all mushy about the Michael stuff. I hope that means something!

unbridledbeauty

Does the narrator actually not know things? Or is he creating suspense by acting as if he doesn't know certain things? For instance, when Michael left the keys next to Nadine when she was handcuffed in his house, he said Michael had made a huge rookie mistake. Then when it's revealed Michael has a plan and was tracking her, he uses his kind of knowing voice when he says "looks like Michael had a plan all along."

I think he says things sometimes because he's relating to the way the audience feels about a scene, and asking questions the audience would ask. Sometimes he drops little hints about character feelings/motivations to let the audience know things are not as they seem based on what characters are saying. This again is to create suspense and intrigue.

I think he can be trusted. I think he knows the ending. I think he pretends to not know stuff because it would ruin the story if he revealed everything.

BUT I could be wrong. I don't remember what his reaction was to Rose being Sin Rostro - what did he say exactly?

I'm glad we'll get to know who the narrator is. One interesting thought would be that it's Jane writing her story many years from now, after everything has already happened. She would know the ending and all the details, and if she ends up with Michael, of course she would be pro-Michael and would know more about his feelings/intentions than some of the other characters. The narrator could simply be someone reading her story. Her son, perhaps?