Jane&Michael [Jane the Virgin] #3: "The thing that Jane realized is that the person who loved her all along and was unwavering [was] Michael."
 

Yay! Tftnt Static_Waves! I love the thread title!!!!

Bringing this over:

Absolutely Michael deserves an apology. And to be completely redeemed for being forced into OOC behavior.

When Rafael says stuff like "Michael is shady", I don't understand what he means. To me the phrase "shady" refers to someone who you believe is untrustworthy because you suspect they are involved in immoral or dangerous or criminal behavior. Michael has done nothing of the sort. He's a straight-forward guy who digs for the truth and gets results. What is shady about that? Plus you look at his personal life, his interactions with Jane, her family, his co-workers, you don't at all get the sense that they see him as anything other than respectable, kind, and loyal. It's really only Rafael who thinks Michael is terrible. Even Michael's own brother knew he was a reformed man, that's why he went to him for money. He knew he could blackmail Michael into doing what he wanted, because Michael had cleaned up his life and wouldn't want to be exposed for things in the past that were done with and completely irrelevant. Rafael, on the other hand, doesn't know anything about Michael except that he stands in the way of getting Jane.

Rafael comes across has having this self-assured conviction that he alone has the right to Jane because she gave birth to his child. When in reality he has no claim on her whatsoever. I wish Jane would point that out to him. They might have biological connections, but they are NOT a family, nor are they required to be one, and he can't use that as manipulation to coerce her into a relationship. Rafael has never had to deal with Michael being first in Jane's affections, because almost from the moment he decided he wanted her, she has swooned to his charms. Even when they broke up, I don't think he expected her to run back to Michael so quickly, and when he saw them getting closer, he immediately got possessive and wanted her back. Because he is the father, Jane can't push him out of her life, so he can get away with far more than Michael can. He doesn't have to worry about losing her, because she will always be in his life in some capacity. So far the brunt of the "getting along" has fallen on Michael's shoulders, and Michael did a pretty decent job of it the whole time Jane and Rafael were dating. If Michael and Jane started dating, would Rafael accept this, or would he continue to sabotage them and heap guilt on Jane for throwing away her "family"?

I do think of the two Michael is more likely to be peaceful. Partly because he wouldn't want to make the same mistake again, and partly because I think punching Rafael was cathartic, and he doesn't have any anger left, only resignation. But I don't think at this point Michael is interested in trying at all, either to get along with Rafael, or to pursue Jane. He has no strength for this right now. But once he and Jane are on good terms, I definitely think he will go out of his way to be civil to Rafael.

TFTNT! Y'all are blowing through these threads. lol

TFTNT! :woot: Great title choice :love:.

Exactly :nod:. This is what annoys me most about Rafael and it would be great if Jane or anyone really could point this out to him.

Tftnt :D

Rafael continues to talk about family and how Jane’s throwing everything away, but in fact, Jane and Rafael were never a family, they were a couple who were expecting a baby and that’s all, family is deeper than that, Family know each other in their essence, stay together when things get complicated, Jane and Rafael were anything BUT family, family is about making sacrifices, it’s do something without asking anything in return, Michael itself was more a family for Jane than Rafael and that's the big problem for me with Rafael and Jane, they’re trying to be something they’re not, at least no now, they’re trying to force something, family come with time.
Fantasy is not only on the Jane’s side, is also with Rafael, he’s so desperate to try to fix the sense of family, we want a perfect family because he never had one.
Not that I'm trying to narrow down what Rafael and Jane have, the feelings for each other is sincere, but only because they had Mateo together doesn’t mean they’re a family, and I don’t like as Rafael think only this is important for them to be together.

Beautifully put, LaisF. And that's one of the big reasons Jane and Rafael don't feel right - everything about their relationship has been rushed, which comes across as insincere. Jane and Michael have had the more evolved, deep, time-tested relationship. Jane and Rafael had problems right away, whereas Michael and Jane quickly fell into a sweet, fun, compatible relationship from the start, and maintained it for two years.

I hope the writers don't try to sell the "two people who are fundamentally different in their core values can work through anything and be happy". I think it can happen sometimes, but I also think in the TV world it is over played. If these two couples were tested in real life, Jane and Michael would have far less conflict moving forward than Jane and Rafael, who have issues with money and schooling and religion and understanding each other and his completely psycho family. I can see a lot of arguments and a lot of tears in their future. Jane and Michael might have way more to work through in order to get married, but once they get to that place, at their core they are similar and agree on a lot of things, and they would have a much more peaceful marriage. So if Jane is putting Mateo first, she should think about that.

I totally agree, I can’t see a scenario where Jane and Rafael works in the long run, different personality can make relationships work, of course, but when two people have different goals and different views of life will rarely work, and Jane and Rafael clearly shows their differences in the beginning of the relationship is a warning sign, Jane wants a partner in life, and Michael offers that, it provides an emotional security that Rafael can’t because he needs one too, so maybe that’s why he hold to Jane, between he and Jane, she’s the more focused.

tftnt :yay: I love the title. That quote gave me life when I first read the interview. It was everything I'd ever thought and was pretty much why I continued to ship j/m throughout S1 in one sentence. It's perfect :nod:

Couple things since I was last here:

YES! :high_five: It makes me pray to God I never get accidentally artificially inseminated lest the bio-daddy ends up thinking we 'belong together' :lol: I mean, it's just inconvenient :D

And this. Michael is NOT shady. Not the dictionary definition of the term. That insult/label will continue to baffle me smh :confused: Not only that, but Rafael even flat out says Michael is 'not a good guy' & then disagrees with Jane when she says he's wrong. Pfft :rolleyes: Not only has Michael been gracious and helpful towards Raf, but he doesn't even know Michael well enough to say something so definitive about his character. Like you said, the only thing he really knows about Michael is that he's an obstacle. And the rest is just a tactic to tear down his opponent.

Also, I'm just gonna leave this here because I love everything about it :love:

Whether or not the giraffe makes an appearance (:fingers_crossed: ) the snow just has to play a role. Snow is their THING. It's the entire motif of their relationship and symbol of their love. So as far as I'm concerned, there better be more than just a bit of snow at their wedding ...there better be a bloody blizzard!!! :roller:

Remember when Michael gave Rafael good advice on how to fit into Jane's family better? Rafael got all the credit for that, and Jane invited him to stay overnight because of it, right in front of Michael. Michael didn't have to help him, but he did. To say his only interaction with Rafael has been negative is not true. Didn't Rafael hug him with gratitude when he rescued Mateo? Didn't Michael stand up next to them during Mateo's christening and smile and cause zero drama? Rafael has a very different picture of Michael in his mind than what has actually been shown on screen. And he's put out next to no effort to get to know Michael, so any statement he makes about his character is just not valid. He's upset because Michael is a road block, plain and simple.

And I'm with you on the blizzard! Lots and lots of snow! I love how snow is the symbol of purity. I think that speaks of who Jane is, and who she is with Michael.

Completely agree about the blizzard. It needs to happen.

This :nod:.

I actually will disagree on one thing: I do think Rafael and Jane are "family". They have a child together that they are choosing to co-parent.

But the part where that translates to romantic partnership just doesn't work for me on many levels.

Thinking about the upcoming wedding, which (provided there are no crazy time jumps) is about 5-6 months from now, I find it hard to believe that Jane would marry anyone except Michael. He is the only one she has already said yes to, the only one she has been with long enough to know their relationship can work past the honeymoon phase. I don't see her marrying a third guy in such a short time, and she is on the outs with Rafael now - she would need even more time to trust him than she would Michael, and he's not even the one she's completely in love with. It might just be wishful thinking coming into play, but Michael is the only one I can believe she would marry spontaneously, once they are fully reconciled. I wouldn't even have a problem with that, if the show wants to do something dramatic for the finale, because of the history between the two. It wouldn't feel as implausible and rushed with him as it would with anyone else. They already bumped up their wedding once, because they didn't want to wait any longer. Just as long as we get to see their issues being dealt with first. I wouldn't be quite so happy about a fast wedding if there were things unresolved, and they were just doing it on a whim without being able to totally trust each other.

I wonder if Michael still has the engagement ring?

That is fair. :) I wonder how well the co-parenting will actually go down now, though. I mean they've both thrown out the custody thing a few times.

Yeah this could be my wishful thinking coming out but I do think Jane will be marrying Michael. Even back in the summer when news of a wedding first came out, my mind went to Michael. They were once engaged and at the time I read the news, they were heading back towards each other so it just made sense and with the story being the way it is now, it makes even more sense. But I don't want to set it in stone just yet :lol:.

I've wondered if Michael still has the ring too and if he proposes again, will he use the same ring or buy Jane a new one?

Exactly, this :nod:. They're always going to be family because they parent Mateo together but Rafael needs to stop making that a reason as to why they should be together. They're family whether or not he's with Jane romantically.

Good point! But I still think they rush too much with all that talking to Jane & Rafael and family, I still believe it should be mentioned later on, because they’re in the process of becoming one and I don't doubt that they will got there. I just don’t buy that they’re still at that point to get comfortable using that word all the time.

You took the words out of my mouth, unless they want to assassinate Jane’s personality, Michael at the moment are the only one who made totally and completely sense to her marrying in the season finale.

If Jane saved the giraffe all this time, I'm pretty sure Michael still has the engagement ring. :sigh::blush: