ollibear

Exactly. Bay and Tank have had several exchanges that bother me.

Here's their breakup:

Tank: Do you even care that I depledged for you?

Bay: Okay, you said you made that decision on your own. You said you came home and the bathroom was covered in vomit.

Tank: Yeah, which I could have handled if you hadn't brainwashed me into thinking this place was evil.

And here's their exchange when Tank is upset about Ty and that Bay talked to Emmett about Ty's lie:

Tank: So Now what? Now you're gonna you're gonna get back together with him?

Bay: No. Emmett was talking about how when someone's not around....

Tank: You talked to Emmett about this?

Bay: Yeah, just to think it through.

Tank: Wow. Wow. At least I came in third, huh? Guess I really failed that Mary Beth sniff test.

Bay: You are not on trial here. I just wanted to show her that you're not some dumb frat guy

Tank: Oh, wow, you know what? Stop. This fraternity is about way more than just one boneheaded idea from a couple of brothers. And I'm getting kind of tired of defending myself.

And here's their exchange after Tank gets in trouble with his fraternity, for telling Bay about the Dog Fight:

Tank: Why are you so upset? - You got what you wanted.

Bay: No, I didn't.

Tank: Yeah, you had to make sure I got punished for something I didn't do.

And here's their exchange when Tank wants to have sex with Bay:

Bay: Okay, hold on.

Tank: Mm.

Bay: Okay okay. Okay, wait.

Tank: You okay?

Bay: Yeah, I I I just, uh

Tank: What's wrong?

Bay: I don't know if I want to.

Tank: Why, did I do something?

Bay: Oh, no. No no no.

Tank: Well, here. I'll light some candles, put on a little music.

Bay: No no no. That's that's not it.

Tank: Are you a virgin?

Bay: No. Why does that have to be the reason? I just I don't want to.

Tank: Okay, that's cool.

Bay: Really? Cause you don't seem cool.

Tank: Well, I'm just confused.

Bay: What's confusing?

Tank: We're dating, and I like you.

Bay: So that automatically means we should be having sex?

Tank: No! God. You're acting like I'm some sex machine. Things were fine and
you suddenly pull back like I'm on fire.

Bay: No, I'm not! A sex machine? What does that even mean?

Tank: I thought it was something I did.

Bay: Maybe I should go.

Tank: Yeah. Maybe you should.

Then, later, when Tank visits Bay to make amends:

Tank: Sorry I missed the game.

Bay: It's cool.

Tank: Um I just wanted to say I'm sorry. I don't expect you to -

Bay: Kinda seemed like you did.

Tank: I know. I forget sometimes that you're still in high school.

Bay: It's not the reason why.

Tank: No, I know, I know, I know.

Tank wasn't listening to what Bay was really saying. He rarely did listen to her. Instead, Tank operated from this emotionally self-centered place.

That bothers me. Tank has some growing up to do.

Slayerfan714

Exactly.

I'm not trying to make him into a villain. I do get that he's hurt and that sucks, but there are certain instances I'm not okay with.

The sex thing was handled really bad on his part. I don't know if it's unfair to keep bringing it back to that but it just was the wrong reaction. 100%. Bay was clearly uncomfortable and he acknowledges later that he knows it seemed like he expected it. I don't like the rationalization either that most guys (especially college guys) would have reacted the same because what do you expect? He's a guy. It's so untrue.

Plenty of guys would say it's cool and not get defensive.

I get him feeling rejected but when someone doesn't want to have sex, you back off the issue and don't get defensive because it'll only serve to make them feel guilty and no one, male or female, should feel guilty about not wanting to have sex.

ollibear

Yes, I agree.

Tank is NOT a villain. He actually seems to be a good guy, just emotionally immature. And I understand that Bay made her own mistakes in the context of their relationship. Absolutely.

However, just because Tank has been betrayed by Bay, that doesn't erase the fact that Tank was often childish and self-centered when relating with Bay.

Slayerfan714

That's how I see it too.

There's no question Bay made her own mistakes with Tank, but yes, I do think there were times Tank didn't handle situations well.

Wes&FredFan

I didn't like that they made Bay into a cheater. Tank's behavior may have been grounds for her to break up with Tank, but not to cheat on him first. Just like Bay and Emmett's fights did not give Emmett grounds to cheat on Bay ... he was a real jerk at times. He was also self-involved, and took out a lot of his anger with his parents on Bay. Bay going between his parents, or trying to intervene on his behalf and him getting mad at her didn't make Bay in the wrong or warrant what he did to her. So while Tank might have been immature, it doesn't make him less than or more so than Emmett was a couple seasons back. He was the very definition of childish and self-centered, to the point that he even threw tantrums when Bay tried to help him. Yet Bay didn't deserve what Emmett did ... there's no way that anything she did or said could make her to blame for Emmett's decision. He could've asked for a break-up or a separation that night and THEN slept with Simone ... and, while it would be tacky, he wouldn't have cheated on Bay. But he didn't do that. He fought with Bay over the phone, and then had sex with Simone.

No, Tank's not perfect. Nobody is. To say that Bay made a mistake but it's okay because Tank was being a jerk is like saying that she could've cheated on Emmett when HE was being a jerk, or that Emmett had every right to cheat on Bay because she did something he didn't like. There's a double-edged sword there when saying that Tank's behavior is what is to blame for Bay cheating. All three of them (Bay/Tank/Emmett) have had some really bratty moments.

As far as what he said to her ... Bay had it coming. Did Bay throw Emmett's mistake in his face - multiple times. Can it be deemed "emotional manipulation" when she got her anger, etc off her chest every time she saw him? No. Now she's getting it from a guy she hurt, and she knows the place he's coming from.

Incidentally, Tank didn't bring up what he knew until AFTER Bay came up to him and confronted him on why he was avoiding her, maintaining a pretense that things were fine. He didn't walk up to her and start ranting. He was trying to avoid her actually, but Bay tracked him down and wanted to know what his issue was. It's not that he's emotionally manipulating her when he tells her exactly why he's avoiding her, cutting through all the pretense. He just basically told her that he knew what really happened and how he found out. It made it awkward for Bay to hear ... but I was glad he said it. Or her pretense would've continued. At least she knows she got busted, and that she had to be honest with her parents too.

I actually like Bay/Tank's friendship and was glad that this thread was started.

Slayerfan714

I think you misinterpreted what I said/meant. The "emotional manipulation" part. I didn't mean what Tank said after he found out that she cheated. In fact this is from my original post:

I explicitly state I didn't have a problem with what Tank said to Bay after he found out she cheated. That is not at all what I was referencing.

The part I was referencing was Tank bringing up the fact that he depledged for her after she broke up with him. This is not about the cheating for me. Say for a second the cheating never happened and Bay still wanted to break up with Tank. Why does he need to throw the fact that he did something she never asked him to do in her face?

I don't know if what I'm saying is clear or not because I think you thought I was saying Tank telling Bay off was him being emotionally manipulative.

That is not what I'm saying. Not at all. I'm trying to say Tank trying to guilt Bay into staying with him because he made a decision on his own to quit his fraternity is absolutely a form of manipulation. Tank doesn't want Bay to break up with him so he's going to use his grand gesture as a way to make her feel guilty.

I'm not exactly sure how that can't be seen as a form of manipulation. Manipulation is essentially getting someone to do something you want them to do but not necessarily what they want to do.

I'm kind of hurt that my words are being twisted around here. I've never ever not once said, nor have I implied, that Tank's behavior is the reason Bay cheated or that Tank should be blamed for Bay cheating? Why would I say that? I don't think it's Bay's fault that Emmett cheated.

You're absolutely right, none of these three are perfect.

Again, I have no issue with Tank telling Bay what he told her when she kept chasing after him.

What I take issue with is the fraternity situation being used as leverage. I think that because Bay cheated, people are excusing Tank's rebuttal of "But I depledged for you. How dare you break up with me."

I mean, if I was trying to break up with someone (and no cheating had taken place) and the person I was trying to break up with said for example, "Alyssa, how dare you break up with me when I drove twelve hours while I was deathly sick to come see you?" when I never asked them to do that, I'd be pissed quite frankly.
And would I have a reason to be upset? Absolutely. That's being emotionally manipulative. So I'm supposed to stay with someone who I don't really want to be with because they sacrificed something for me? That's not how it works.

If you want to do something nice for your significant other, that's all well and good, but a lot of people DO use that later on in the breakup as some kind of score card. And there should never be a score card kept in a relationship. Otherwise why do nice things if it's not really nice? If it's just a bunch of acts you're saving up later on to use against someone, I mean, maybe I'm just not getting my point across, but it's just wrong to me.

I'm getting married soon and I would like to think that if something happened, no matter how bitter it got that neither of us would ever use those moments where we did nice things for each other as ammo. It makes me sad to think that.

ollibear

Does that mean that you do not want the protagonist of a TV show to make a serious mistake?

Or is cheating in a separate category for you? In other words, are mistakes (in general) okay, but cheating specifically is taboo for a protagonist?

I agree 100%.

I don't think anyone here has indicated that Bay had grounds to cheat on Tank.

Emmett was a real jerk nearly all of the time in Season 1. At first, he was having difficulty overcoming his mindset that a Deaf person should not date a hearing person. And once he semi-worked his way through that issue, his parents' divorce threw him for a loop and made him jealous, moody, insecure, etc. I dare say he had moments where he even stopped believing in love.

As he himself told Bay, when he returned from the basketball tournament, "I was a jackass," and again when he met her after their breakup at Blue River Road, "I didn't handle things right."

He was a jackass and he didn't handle things right. No argument there.

I DO believe Bay was in the wrong to intervene after she promised him that she would stay out of it, but even so, that didn't warrant Emmett being a jackass and cheating, which he did.

True. No argument from me.

Emmett's relationship with Bay imploded because he was immature. And Tank's relationship with Bay imploded because he was immature.

No, Bay didn't deserve Emmett to cheat, nor did she deserve for him to break up with her.

I personally find someone breaking up with me a bigger betrayal than someone cheating on me, but to each their own. Therefore, to me, the far greater betrayal would have been for Emmett to break up with Bay.

And that's not to say that someone doesn't have the right to break up with someone whenever he or she wants, because everyone does have the right.

And NO one has the right to cheat.

But still, my heart would be much more deeply hurt by someone breaking up with me, than by someone cheating on me.

I don't think anyone has implied that Tank's behavior is to blame for Bay cheating. I've posted quite a bit in this thread, but I have not said that.

Yes, they have all had some really bratty moments, and I love how that makes them all three human.

As I reread the part I've just quoted, I am tempted to go back and change what I stated earlier in this post.

Actually, there is a part of me that DOES believe everyone on earth has the right to cheat. Of course, everyone on earth will face the natural consequences for their actions, as Emmett and Bay are doing and have done. But yeah, everyone has the right to be a jackass and cheat and hurt others. Free will does exist and so do repercussions.

Everyone I have seen on this thread indicates that we all believe Tank's response to Bay's cheating was mature and well within reason. No one has accused Tank of emotional manipulation in his response to Bay's cheating.

Now, I DO believe several people on this board and throughout social media took Bay to task for her response to Emmett's cheating. For some reason, people seem to be much harder on female characters in these situations than on male characters. Bay was raked over the coals for borrowing Emmett's camera and still telling him that "Nothing has changed between us." Also, Bay was raked over the coals for attending Carlton and dating Noah in front of Emmett.

Some of the comments about Bay have been harsh, much harsher than anything we have posted here about Tank.

Tank was an angel from the moment John lambasted him about the morning after pill. I haven't seen anyone take Tank to task for his response once he found out Bay had cheated. I personally so no evidence of Tank emotionally manipulating Bay, after John told him the truth.

I did, too, at the very beginning. Tank's appearance in the first episode of Season 3 was adorable, and I loved how he saved Bay from his fraternity brother.

I stopped liking Tank when he brought beer to Toby's apartment. Before that, he appeared clueless in a few scenes, but he was okay. But that bothered me. I also didn't like the way Tank reacted when Bay said she just wanted to be friends. He was a hero in helping her with the injury, though.

Everything after that, for me, was all downhill with Tank. If he stayed on the show, I would definitely want to see his character mature. He needs it.

But right now, I do not personally feel the actor is dynamic enough to hold my interest. He did do a nice job with his scenes in the last episode, though. Kudos to Max Adler for that.

KBrownie

And no one ever said that Bay and/or Emmett are perfect.

I think what needs to be emphasized here is that Tank is the one who isn't perfect.

Bringing up Emmett's shortcomings has nothing to do with Tank's. I don't even understand why Emmett was even brought up. He has nothing to do with Tank. Never met him, never talked with him, so I don't see where listing all of Emmett's faults accomplishes anything.

Bay was the one who was in a relationship with him, not Emmett. And again, everyone has acknowledged that Bay was wrong. Still doesn't make Tank's actions BEFORE he knew Bay cheated any less questionable, if that is someone's opinion. Man, it's like Bay was required to be madly in love with him just because he was a "nice guy." Not so much.

Twisting people's words around just makes whatever point that is trying to be made illogical and leaves me personally scratching my head.

Slayerfan714

Yes.

I just wanted to reiterate this fact. I'm fine with Tank telling Bay what he told her on campus.

What bothered me was the fraternity remark. That's all that bothered me. It just rubbed me the wrong way. Do people lash out when they are dumped? Absolutely. Does it make it okay? No.

To me the way it came across was "You should be so grateful that I left my fraternity for you and you breaking up with me is not being grateful. I expect gratitude."

And maybe that's on me that I am reading the scene that way, but that's what it says to me. Maybe it was Max's interpretation of the script and how he chose to play it.

I just know, for me, in Bay's position (again not even about the cheating) I would be really upset that someone was making me feel bad for breaking up with them by bringing up a situation I had no part in.

ollibear

Excellent points. You've pinpointed what is bothering me the most about things that I am reading on Facebook's official Switched at Birth page.

Based on Tank's lines in the scripts, I do NOT see Tank as a good guy.

And yet, because Tank is not cheating or lying to Bay, many believe Bay is supposed to be madly in love with him, as if that is all it takes.

There are many ways to be disloyal to a partner. I personally find Tank's behavior more disloyal than Emmett's or even than Ty's.

Both Emmett and Ty gave to Bay with a free heart, expecting nothing in return. Tank gave to Bay, too, but with strings attached. At least, that's the way it came across to me.

Wes&FredFan

My bad. Thanks for clarifying.

Not saying Tank is perfect - he's not. But I don't hold any of the three less than the others. They've all had their share of mistakes. No special emphasis needed on any of them, IMO.

Not saying that. I liked their friendship, and was disappointed they went the romance route. Much like they ruined Daphne/Travis by making the same mistake.

Tough call, but there's another side to it. Emmett was a huge jerk to Bay during S1 and he was far from the loyal boyfriend. Tank was given a handful of episodes and that's it. Max did a great job with what they gave him, but he didn't get much. Emmett had a lot of time where he was just angry all the time and took it out on Bay. That's disloyalty too, isn't it? Even before his physical act of cheating. Tank was a jerk, but so was Emmett. The only difference is that Emmett had multiple seasons to grow up and mature, while Tank had far less time. Same with Ty, who didn't get as much time as Emmett had to show how he'd changed, etc. All I'm saying.

ollibear

If I understood Alyssa correctly, from the moment John confronted Tank about the morning after pill, Alyssa does NOT feel Tank was emotionally manipulative.

I know FOR SURE that I do not feel as though Tank was emotionally manipulative AFTER he learned about the morning after pill. To me, all of Tank's emotional manipulation came BEFORE he knew the truth. In fact, to me, Tank was emotionally manipulating Bay from the moment he started dating her, up until John confronted him about the pill.

After John confronted Tank, I have no argument against anything Tank said or did. It was as if Tank had finally let go his desire to possess Bay at that point, and he stopped being emotionally manipulative.

In other words, Tank grew up quickly.

By bringing up Emmett's flaws, it made me feel as though you are saying Tank is better than Emmett, which is a fine thing to say. It's always good to have an opinion.

But now that you have said you do not hold any of the three less than the others, I am confused.

My opinion is that I believe Emmett is written to be a better person than Tank. I also believe Ty is written to be a better person than Tank.

But I don't think Tank is evil. He's fine. He just doesn't have the depth yet for me that the other two have.

Is there something you like about Tank's friendship with Bay better than Toby's friendship or Travis's friendship? Or Mary Beth's friendship or Natalie's friendship?

I don't see as Bay needed another friend on the show, unless Tank offered her something unique. If you describe how you would have liked to see their friendship develop, it may help me open my mind to Tank as a character. I saw Tank as this frat boy who didn't have much to offer Bay in the way of new perspective, although Bay had a lot to offer him.

True. Max has not been on the show as long as Sean. That's why I said if Tank sticks around, then I need to see emotional growth on his part.

I actually believe Emmett was loyal to Bay during Season 1, but I also agree Emmett was a huge jerk to Bay, too.

Emmett is a character who loved Bay passionately during Season 1. That's where the loyalty comes into play. Emmett's love for Bay was sincere, and it never faltered. He faltered, but his love did not.

I never saw Tank love Bay passionately, or even at all. I believe Tank liked Bay. Tank was attracted to Bay. But Tank did not yet love Bay.

I don't see Emmett as disloyal, because his love for Bay remained sincere. But his behavior was definitely immature and unhealthy. The cheating was the pinnacle of all of that. I can completely understand why people would call him disloyal. My perspective is probably not typical.

Again, I don't see Tank as ever having fallen in love with Bay. To me, at this point, Tank is unable to say, "I love you, Bay," and mean it from his heart. He just has not yet developed those deep feelings for her.

Emmett had.

Ty had.

Now, it could be that Tank would have fallen in love with Bay, in time. But it didn't happen yet.

I'm not sure how the show could give as much time to new characters, in order for them to have time to mature. Emmett will always have a longer history and more development than any guest star.

p.s. Yes, you are right. Ty was a jerk at times, too. It seems every character (male and female) has their jerky moments on this show.

~AnastasiaGrey~

My issue has always been the fraternity issue, that is why I feel as though Tank allowed himself to be more invested in Bay then she was with him and tha tis why he didnt have a right to throw the fraternity back at her because she never once told him to do that.

Wes&FredFan

I realized that .

I just meant that I don't hold any of them as being more or less fallible than the others. All of them have made mistakes.

I don't ship B/E so I don't see any depth there that goes above any other relationship on the show, but that's only my perspective. I didn't see anything romantic with Tank/Bay either. I didn't want them as a couple - just as friends. I wanted Bay to have a guy friend that remained as a friend. A cool guy that she can hang out with on the college campus last season that would look out for her at college parties and listen to her when she needed to talk. Clearly, that's not permitted on the show because if a guy and a girl are friends, it has to become a relationship (ex. Travis/Daphne), even if it's doomed from the start and the writers don't put much into it.

I think it's because the writing stank in terms of making them a romantic couple. They didn't think it out very well, IMO. They were better off as friends in college art class.

I think the whole fraternity speech was ridiculous. It was somewhat like Emmett going off on Bay for talking to his parents, etc. Each of Bay's guys seems to have had a moment where they say something bratty where you just stare at them with an expression of "Huh?" Unfortunately, when they made Tank/Bay a couple, they wrote themselves into a corner and then had to get out of it. Far better for it to have been a friendship...and only a friendship.

ollibear

As far as Bay and Tank are concerned, I feel the writing is well-planned.

Everyone has experienced (or knows someone who has experienced) an unreciprocated crush. In the beginning, that's what Tank had for Bay.

Bay thought she knew how she felt, but then, she injured her hand. Circumstances found Tank with a crush on someone who suddenly doubted her own convictions.

The accident shook Bay. And because Bay was experiencing self-doubt, she saw Tank as her hero. Bay leaned on Tank as a safety net. A more mature man would have realized what was happening, but Tank is new to love and didn't see the signs.

As for Bay, it took learning that Ty had never cheated for her to come to her senses and realize it was a mistake to choose a romantic relationship with someone for no reason other than safety.

She should have ended things with Tank, but she didn't have the foresight. She let things go on too long with Tank, and he got hurt.

I find the storyline to be realistic, though. I believe young people do make the same mistakes Bay and Tank made. So I liked it.

Even if Tank had become a platonic friend, the writers likely do not have room for his story in Season 4. To me, it would have been sad to see Bay develop this great friendship with Tank and then have him disappear.

So I am glad that I don't have to say goodbye to a character and to relationships that I will miss. I already miss Bay's relationship with Toby. When I see Bay interact with other characters, I would prefer it to be her family and the Deaf characters at Carlton. So for me, this storyline worked well.