AnneH

Bay never said he had to quit the frat to date her. She expressed her disapproval and then he quit eve expressing his own disapproval. That's on him. Maybe he shouldn't have changed his life for a girl he had been dating for like a month.

Subject

I just love how all of the burden is taken off of Bay. Did Tank make a choice yes, A choice she wanted.

I mean think about this if Tank pressured Bay to use drugs...for weeks, time and time again. The she does it. Would you not cast some blame on Tank for her doing drugs? Or would you simply say that she made a decision.

He didn't just change his life for a girl he liked. He changed it because he thought they had a future. He choose her over them. Then she dumped him...

That said I don't know if they will find a way to get back together but it would make for some good drama going forward.

ollibear

Actually, if you want to be accurate, Bay did not ask. Bay demanded.

Bay demanded Tank give up the fraternity, and Tank absolutely categorically, refused.

And Bay accepted that.

Bay stayed with Tank, despite the fact that he did not bend to her desire.

Then, after that, Bay never asked Tank to give up his fraternity again. She accepted it.

But Bay DID question Tank about it. She was curious.

I believe she was genuinely puzzled. To my mind, there is nothing manipulative in Bay's words.

Bay sincerely wanted to know why Tank wanted to be a part of something so crass.

Here's Bay and Tank's last conversation, as a couple:

BAY: Can I ask you something?

TANK: Yeah.

BAY: Doesn't it bother you that these guys who are supposed to be your friends didn't stand up for you?

TANK: Well, I did break the rules by telling you about that thing.

BAY: Okay, but they know you and they know what a great guy you are. You're clearly dedicated to the place, like to the core. So you told one person about a party that never should've happened in the first place? And after everything you've gone through with your pledge brothers, the bowling balls, the keg stands, cleaning toilets, who knows what else, shouldn't they have stood up for you and said, "if he goes, we go"?

TANK: Why are you always dumping on my fraternity?

BAY: I'm not. I just

TANK: No, these guys have gone through a lot and they don't want to jeopardize themselves either, which I understand.

BAY: I just don't get why you want to be a part of that stupid world. You're better than them. Ever since I walked into that house and that one guy was trying to sleep with me. Ledge.

TANK: Cliff!

BAY: Whoever! Every interaction that I've had with them has made me wonder why you want to be part of it.

Bay didn't ask Tank to give up the fraternity. She asked him to defend it, to help her understand why it was so important to him, and Tank couldn't.

Tank couldn't explain to Bay why the fraternity meant so much to him. So instead, he allowed Bay's opinion of the fraternity to influence him, and he quit.

That actually says a lot about Tank's loyalty, and what it says is not positive.

What if, instead of a fraternity, it was Tank's child that Bay was calling into question? Or another family member? Or a friend? Or a career path?

Would Tank have given up anything of value for Bay? Would he have given up everything of value for Bay?

Where would Tank draw the line and insist on making decisions based on his own judgment? Would he draw the line anywhere, ever?

Or will Tank always forsake anything Bay questions?

If Tank felt strongly about his fraternity, he needed to stand up for it. He needed to defend it. He needed to explain it to Bay, so she understood, too.

During that conversation, Bay was NOT asking Tank to quit. Bay was asking Tank to help her understand. Quitting was Tank's response.

It says a lot about him, too.

Again, Bay never asked Tank to change anything. She demanded, and when he didn't acquiesce, she questioned him, to understand.

Also, Tank loved more than just his fraternity, at least, I hope he did.

I am sure Tank loved football. I would like to think he loved his classes, too, since that is a major point to being in college.

We never did learn Tank's career path. In my imagination, I saw him as a business major. Tank seems like a salesman to me.

Oh, and Tank had a place to go. When he left the fraternity house, he moved into a dorm room. He was just lonely there. That's all.

In my opinion, anyone who cannot find a friend, without relying on an ex-partner's relatives, has serious problems.

Here's Bay and Tank's conversation, when she first discovered he had moved in with Toby:

BAY: What are you doing here?

TANK: I live here now.

BAY: You what?

TANK: Toby needed a roommate, plus my new roommate was a tool, equals here I am.

BAY: Would have been nice for somebody to run it by me.

TANK: You've got to be kidding.

BAY: Nobody thought that this would be awkward for me?

TANK: I de-pledged Omega Psi for you. And then you cheated on me and you lied about it. And then you dumped me anyway. So I lost all my friends and I became a pariah at school. And that is why I'm living on your brother's couch.

BAY: Good point.

TANK: Yeah. Is that for him?

BAY: Uh

TANK: (taking the casserole) - I'll tell Toby you came by.

Tank is the tool, not his former roommate.

Cry me a river! All the guy does is whine, complain, and blame everyone but himself for all of his problems.

I wonder if he will continue doing that, now that he has been expelled.

I do feel an injustice has been done to Tank, by the college, but I hope he takes responsibility and makes some changes to his own behavior.

Until Tank starts taking responsibility for the things going wrong in his life, he will continue to be powerless to change them.

Yes, true friends are committed to your happiness, but I am not sure to what truth or decision you may be referring.

Will you explain what you mean?

Absolutely.

Even if Bay had asked Tank to quit his fraternity in exchange for her promise to commit to their relationship, she still wouldn't be obligated to stay with him.

That's not how relationships work.

Oh, that makes more sense.

But I do feel Tank could tell it was bothering Bay that she had slept with him. He even said to her, "You don't have to act like having sex with me is, like, the grossest thing on the planet."

I don't think the fact Bay cheated gives Tank a free pass to do whatever he wants, or even to be insensitive.

But I do think the kind of sensitivity you are wishing Tank possessed is beyond his level of comprehension. And that is not a slam on Tank. I just don't think there was any way he could have known what was going on in Bay's mind at the time.

I don't even think Bay was upset she had cheated on Emmett. "It's not just about Emmett," was one of the first statements Bay asserted to Tank.

Bay was upset because she, like most people, wants to have control over with whom she has sex. Bay didn't have control over her sexual activity that night, and she was upset about it.

But at that initial meeting, Tank honestly didn't know Bay didn't have control over her sexual activity that night. That's why Tank was insensitive. He didn't know.

Bay could talk trash about Tank's fraternity every day for the rest of her life, and he still should not have quit, if it meant something to him.

And if Tank decides that a chance at a smoother relationship with Bay is worth sacrificing his fraternity, then that is his choice. The risk is ALL on him.

If you take away the risk, if you make that smoother relationship a guarantee, and not just a possibility, then you take away the meaning behind the sacrifice.

If it is a guarantee, then all you have is Tank trading one commodity for another. In effect, Tank would essentially be "buying" Bay, in exchange for giving up his fraternity.

People are NOT for sale. The sacrifice only has meaning, if he does it knowing that Bay may choose not to stay with him. If Tank thinks that Bay owes him, because of his sacrifice (and he said she does), then he has got it ALL wrong.

Yeah, it sucks for Tank that he lost the gamble. It sucks for anyone who takes these sorts of risks and loses.

It would have been a much happier story, if Tank had made the sacrifice and Bay was right there by his side every step of the way.

That was the dream. It just didn't go Tank's way. And that's the gamble.

Until Tank accepts the risk and takes ownership of the loss, he is going to be nothing more than a sore loser.

It's understandable to be angry. But Tank needs to take that anger out on himself and not on others.

The man needs to own his choices.

I wouldn't tell off my best friend, unless my boyfriend was worth the risk.

And if my boyfriend was worth the risk, and I took the gamble and lost him anyway, then I would be satisfied with my decision.

Like the song says:

I'd swim a thousand seas
Cross deserts on my knees
I'd steal the stars from up above
All for the sake of love
I'd risk the highest flames
Just to defend your name
There's nothing that would be too much
All for the sake of love
La la la la la

Yeah, I'd risk it all, and I'd be okay with losing, too. Some things are worth the risk.

And even if they aren't, I'm a gambler at heart.

Amen.

Tank is still young, but really, by the time a person has graduated high school, he or she needs to be able to accept the consequences and the risks associated with any decision.

One thing for sure, getting burned should teach him.

I hope.

Bay is STILL responsible for her choices. The only burden taken off of Bay is Tank's burden, and I'm sorry, but it is Tank's to bear.

I'd say she made the decision, unless she was a child.

Yeah, I get it. I see what happened. Tank lost. It sucks for him. I do feel sorry for the guy, but that's life.

If he looks at it the right way, it is exhilarating to have the power to take those kinds of risks and let the chips fall where they may.

That's called being a grown up. It's power.

But if Tank goes on believing everyone else owes him for his mistake, then he gives up all of his power.

He loses his ability to pick up the pieces, learn from his mistake, move forward, and be smarter next time.

No one learns from his or her mistake if others pay for it.

It REALLY would make for some good drama.

It would be so easy for Bay to tell herself that since she has already slept with Tank, she might as well go on sleeping with him.

Bay is going to need somebody, and in some respects, in a twisted way, Tank may feel like her safest option. At least, Tank is a known entity.

She lost Emmett, so that isn't a consideration.

Now, Tank may not want anything to do with Bay, because of his expulsion, but I could see Tank being drawn back to Bay, too.

It would be an extremely dysfunctional relationship.

In fact, it may be too dysfunctional for ABC Family, but in real life, it would be a possibility.

Sometimes when we are down, we are drawn to our poison.

Bay and Tank are poison for each other, but I could see a sexual relationship happening. Things like that do happen in real life.

As for a friendship between Bay and Tank, that is pointless.

Truthfully, a friendship was pointless from the moment Bay decided she wanted to be with Emmett, after cheating on Tank.

Slayerfan714

That's true.

I don't know. I guess I am not providing the best examples, but I still stand by my belief that Tank didn't know Bay.

Bay didn't owe Tank anything for a choice he made.

Like Amy said, after the original demand that Bay made, she accepted it. She questioned why Tank would want to stay, but that was all.

Expecting it to be Bay's burden, to me, feels off.

That's like, my husband was working for a company that treated him like crap, really didn't pay him well at all, or his co-workers. I would ask him all the time "Why don't you just quit?" He didn't end up quitting but the company closed down. At least in this area. But if he had quit, I would not think that was on me. At all. I may have been offering a suggestion or honestly asking him why he wanted to stay somewhere like that, but that is all.

And it also feels a bit contradictory to say Bay isn't obligated to stay with Tank, yet she owes him something.

So what did she owe him?

Nothing.

Bay staying with Tank out of guilt or obligation would have been awful.

And had she stayed, Tank keeping his "You asked me to leave and I did" card in his back pocket all the time would have turned his relationship with Bay into an emotionally abusive one, IMO, since he could have easily manipulated her by constantly reiterating the fact that he left his frat for her. Imagine Bay staying with Tank and they get into arguments and every time they do, he brings that up.

Tank needs to take ownership for his decision.

And even though I love Bay, like Amy said, yes, her doing drugs would be her decision. Someone could be a bad influence on you, but it's still your responsibility to remove yourself from the person or situation. Unless it's too dangerous i.e. physically abusive and life threatening.

Lastly, Tank's frat was pretty gross and I'm not sure what it says about him that he wanted to stay in one that humiliated and degraded women. No, not all of them agreed, yet no one was willing to do anything about it, were they? That to me makes them weak. Saying "I don't agree, but I can't/won't do anything to change it," makes someone just as bad and culpable. You can always voice your opinion. They may not have liked it or agreed, but were willing to suck it up and just let these unsuspecting women waltz in there and be judged and laughed at behind their backs. GROSSSSS.

John S

As I have said before, there is no way in Hell that a man is going to associate with a woman who accuses him of rape, unless it is to physically or psychologically hurt the woman.
IF Tank returns to the show, it will be to have his reputation restored. If that means hurting Bay in the process, then so be it.
To think that they could ever have sex ever again is ludicrous. Tank will NEVER even bother with her ever again and Bay doesn't sleep around when sober.

Subject

That is one long post... umm. I will try to respond with thoughts that hopefully will answer your questions. If you like I will try to respond on a quote by quote basis.

Bay was not a good girlfriend to Tank. Yes she demanded that he leave the frat and he said no. Then she never demanded it again. Instead she choose every moment she could to tear into it. What you call being curious I call nagging and complaining about it. A true friend or even girlfriend would have seen that it was important to him and support him in it. Why? Even if she didn't understand it, he cared about. That should have been enough. He shouldn't have to defend it, or explain it to her. She was his girlfriend not his mother.

As for him complaining about the horrible things that happen to him. Everyone does that on this show especially Bay. It's not like Tank stalked all of the people who knew Bay and found someone looking for a roommate. He saw an opportunity and took it. Like anyone else would have.

As for the dog fight. I won't say that it was meant to humiliate and degraded women. (On a sexist level) I would say that it was not a nice thing to do to anyone. Like the movie dinner for schmucks where they find the most annoying guy they can. I mean it is gross but not made to humiliate or degrade men.

Both frats and sororities are known for hazing at least in the media. When women do it to other women we don't call it humiliating and degrading towards women. We just call them jerks.

What should be done next is Tank suing the school and coming back to school. The fact that a young man can get expelled with evidence just because a girl didn't feel good about possibly cheating on her boyfriend is wrong. That's like expelling someone because they said something that someone took as offensive to their religion, or race, or sexuality without any proof or context of the truth.

As for blaming Bay for his problems. I won't say that they were all her fault but she was a contributing factor in them.

ollibear

I love your insight and point of view. Any way you want to share works great for me.

True. Oh, so true.

I wonder why Tank didn't see that and end things, before Bay hurt him, by sleeping with Emmett.

But I guess it's true to life.

Tank didn't have any experience with love, at least, according to what he told Bay on the first night they met.

Tank found Bay attractive. Bay was kissing Tank, and he liked that. Tank wanted it to work between them.

In Tank's mind, he probably had this picture of how great it could be between them.

But it wasn't. It wasn't great at all.

Even Bay told Daphne, two days after she cheated on Tank, "He and I never really clicked like that. I kept trying to make it work. And it never did."

I believe that is what Emmett meant, when he told Bay, "We shouldn't have to try to make it work." Emmett was not saying that relationships don't take work. Of course, they do. Emmett knows that better than anyone. He worked REALLY hard on his relationship with Bay, especially during the two years they were apart.

But at some point, the difference between working hard on a relationship and forcing a relationship to work needs to be recognized.

Emmett is right. He and Bay should not have to force their relationship to work. If he had not shared his real feelings, and if Bay had moved to LA, they would not have been happy together, not at this time in their lives.

Emmett would still feel resentful over all of the times Bay put others before him. Bay would still have her doubts over whether or not she could trust Emmett. Because, let's be honest, that is why Bay didn't tell Emmett about her aneurysm, and it is why Bay turned to Tank, the moment Emmett gave Bay reason to doubt his fidelity.

Nothing would have been magically healed by Bay's move to LA. She would have had a difficult time getting acclimated on her own (especially with her felony conviction making employment a challenge), and Emmett would not have had much time to help her, especially if he was putting his schooling first, as he should.

Bay's move to LA would have been a disaster. Their window of opportunity had closed. Emmett called it accurately.

Emmett recognized that he and Bay are not good for each other, at least not at this point in their lives, and he ended it, in the same way that Tank should have ended it, before Bay hurt him.

I can see that perspective and agree with it.

My personal perspective is that Bay was truly trying to understand. If I was in a relationship with Bay, and if she was asking me about my fraternity, I would not have seen it as nagging. I would have wanted to help her understand my love for it, but then again, I like to explain my thoughts and feelings to others.

Looking at it from Tank's point of view, I could see how Bay's questioning might be interpreted as nagging. From Tank's perspective, the fact he cared about it should have been enough.

It's difficult for me to feel close to someone, without the verbal disclosure, but there are other ways of maintaining intimacy. If I really liked a guy, I would try to connect without relying on words. I'm not sure how long I could sustain it, but I would try. Perhaps I could learn a new way of being that I could make my own. I'm not sure.

When has Bay ever suggested that someone owes her something because of a wrong that they have inflicted upon her?

The closest is when Bay told Daphne that she should have stuck up for her, at Carlton, because that is what you do for family. But that had nothing to do with any wrong Daphne had done to Bay. It was just a code (or creed) by which Bay lives.

True. Tank was not stalking Toby. But not everyone would take the opportunity, as you claim.

If Melody or Cameron offered Bay a place to stay or an opportunity for employment, now that Emmett has broken up with her, I do not believe Bay would take them up on either.

Tank's frat wasn't hazing these women.

That's what Tank's frat was doing to Tank, when they had him carrying the bowling ball around and cleaning toilets.

What Tank's frat was doing to the women invited to that dog fight was designed to humiliate and degrade them, and not as part of some hazing ritual to make them one of the gang.

It was done to be cruel.

It was done to give the fraternity brothers a feeling of power, which indicates they must be insecure in the first place, to need it in that way.

I would have just as much of a problem with it, if it was a group of sorority sisters doing it to men, or if it was done by either group to the same gender.

It's mean.

I see a person who participates in such an activity as immature. I don't think it makes the person necessarily evil, but it does tell me the person is underdeveloped and lacks empathy.

I agree that Tank needs to sue the school. What was done to him by the college is 100% categorically WRONG.

There are many contributing factors to every problem that every human being has on this earth. There always has been, and there always will be.

Who cares?

Blame Bay all you want.

Tank can blame Bay all he wants, too.

But no one can control anyone else. We can only control ourselves. So why waste energy blaming anyone?

If Tank wants to make a difference in his own life, and I hope he does, then he needs to focus on the things he can control.

Tank needs to focus on how he can be smarter in the future, on how he can avoid his mistakes again.

Wasting time worrying about Bay and how she may have wronged him is not going to do Tank any good.

Feeling as though Bay (or anyone in her family) owes him something is not going to do Tank any good.

As I said, Bay and Tank would be poison for each other, but I could see it happening, especially if it was in real life, more than on an ABC Family TV show.

In my mind, a person like Tank would probably feel as though he has nothing left to lose, at this point.

I could see him resenting Bay tremendously, even if he has conflicting feelings and still cares about her, too.

He may be so conflicted as to even sometimes believe that he wronged her.

But his expulsion, and all of the problems he will be facing in the wake of his expulsion, will probably have Tank wanting to take anything and everything he can get from Bay.

Tank is sexually attracted to Bay. If Bay is weak and vulnerable, after her break up with Emmett, I could see Tank going for sex with Bay. Like you, I have doubts that Tank would trust Bay enough to ever allow himself to get emotionally close to her again.

In one respect, sex with Bay may even bolster Tank's view, in his own mind, that he never raped Bay. It may prove to him that she wanted it all along, since she is giving it to him now.

It will be interesting to see if Tank can and does restore his reputation, and if Bay is further hurt in the process.

I am especially interested to see Bay and Tank's next interaction.

In my mind, Bay feels tremendous guilt over the continued pain she has caused Tank, but who knows?

Maybe Bay is over that by now. She didn't seem too torn up about Tank in this conversation with Tess. In fact, she seemed like someone who just wants her own good life back.

TESS: So whatever happened with Tank?

BAY: I told the truth and they expelled him.

TESS: Payback's a b*tch.

BAY: I heard that he had to move back home with his dad for the semester. I'm just so ready for this whole mess to be over with Tank, community service, all of it.

TESS: How many more days you got?

BAY: Nineteen, and then 97 more of probation, and then I am a free woman.

Bay has spent so much time feeling guilty for cheating on Tank, and now that Tank has done what he has done to her, now that he has taken advantage of her, Bay doesn't seem too hung up on making amends with Tank anymore.

That's good. In my opinion, Bay was wrong in her judgment that making amends with Tank was more important than seeing to her current relationship with Emmett.

As for Bay sleeping around when she is sober, that is yet to be seen.

Who knows what may happen to her character?

Bay has been deeply hurt and betrayed, by herself most of all.

And who is to say that Bay will stay sober?

We really don't know what will happen with Bay's character this summer. I have hope that Bay will be strong, and fight for what she believes in and cares about, but I don't know.

John S

Ollibear - Just for the record. You quoted me on SIX things that I NEVER said. I believe that Subject made those points.

ollibear

Yes, good eye, John S.

When I pasted the quote tag, I accidentally used the one for your quote. I will go back and fix it.

Just for the record, John S., I have never, yet, not known to whom I am responding, even if the tag is incorrect.

Thanks for catching that, though!

John S

I was just wondering how many people saw the REAL LIFE retraction by Rolling Stone magazine about a story they wrote criticizing a college fraternity for a rape story that was proven to be shady, at best, if not an out and out lie.

Here is an example where a fictional TV show's college can retract a decision where a male student at this school was "falsely" accused of rape.
We'll see if something like that happens in Season 4B.

ollibear

Yes! I sure did. In fact, I was thinking about mentioning it somewhere on this Board, just yesterday. Thank you for bringing it up, John.

One of the reasons I love Switched at Birth so much is that I see so much of myself in both Bay and Emmett.

When Bay only applied to one college, her senior year, THAT was me. I only applied to one college, too, The University of Virginia. I live on the outskirts of Richmond, Virginia, and The University of Virginia is the most respected school in our state. It was the ONLY school I wanted to attend. It was my one and only dream for my future, for eight years (from age 10 to 18).

And just like Bay, I applied and did not get in. They rejected me. I can't tell you how much that stung, but I do still love the school. All of my friends went and graduated from there. To this day, my former high school guidance counselor still says that she does not know why I did not get in. My application should have made me a "shoe in" according to her.

But I think I know why I didn't get accepted. I mailed in my application on the evening of the last possible day. I really dragged my heels on writing the essay. I barely got it in the mail, for the needed postmark.

I really think that hindered my chances.

So anyway, yes, I follow everything in the news about Mr. Jefferson's University. It is an icon here, in the State of Virginia. I still kick myself for not getting in, but I do believe I had a much richer and varied life because of it.

To look at that world now, it seems very closed, very similar to everything my raising had already given me. And the life that I have had travelling all over the country has given me a much broader perspective, one that I would have been cheated out of, if I had attended UVA.

I will share something ironic and sad. The very first time I ever visited the college, to see my oldest and dearest friend, the one who had been by my side since I was three years old, we went to a fraternity party together. She disappeared with a cute boy, a wrestler, in the middle of the party. I felt lost, not knowing my way around the campus, but my best friend's roommates took me back to their home.

Much later that night, maybe around 4 a.m., my best friend returned. Due to the noise, I woke up, but I stayed in bed. I heard the commotion of her roommates talking, though. Their voices sounded emotional, and I heard one of them comment that my best friend had some bruises and some bite marks on her breasts.

The next day, I asked her if everything was okay, and she said everything was fine. She seemed fine, and I didn't want to pry. I have always wondered about that, though. Even to this day, I still think about asking her, even more so with the Rolling Stone article. But we only see each other once every few years now, and I doubt that I ever do, unless we spend some extended time together one day.

She is happy with a wonderful life, so whatever happened, it hasn't affected her future negatively. She has an awesome career. She has a beautiful husband and children. She is close to her parents and siblings and extended family and friends. That's what matters.

I have been wondering the very thing that you are wondering, John.

In the summer of 2013, Lizzy Weiss tweeted that she intended to keep her show free of rape and murder.

Yet, in the fall of 2014, there was this gray area hanging over Bay's head. Was Bay raped? It's not completely clear-cut, but only because Bay doesn't remember.

I do not believe that any of the writers of Switched at Birth feel Bay was raped. The only reason the writers are allowing this cloud to hang over Bay's head is because they want to call attention to the fact that some people in society are now saying that an intoxicated person cannot consent to sex, even if the intoxicated person begs for sex. Not that Bay begged, but that is the thinking on the matter, in general.

I think the writers wanted to call attention to that phenomenon, because it is being talked about on college campuses all over the country, and especially because of the travesty of justice that happened at Occidental College, a place where Switched at Birth films every season. (This travesty of justice is quite similar to what just happened at UVA, so how timely of the writers to call attention it.)

What is happening to young men who are entrapped by these new, and unfair, policies is wrong. What happened to Tank is wrong.

What happened to Bay isn't wrong, however. It is unfortunate that she chose to drink so much that she lost control over her inhibitions. It is unfortunate that Bay had sex with Tank, when sober she would not have chosen to do so.

Or maybe it is fortunate that Bay had sex with Tank. Maybe her inhibitions were holding her back from something she really wants. Maybe now that those inhibitions, and Emmett, are out of her way, she can pursue that relationship with Tank, because for whatever reason, Bay was never able to cut the cord on her relationship with Tank and to let him go, even after she cheated on him.

I believe that part of the reason Emmett cut the cord with Bay is because he truly wonders if she would rather be with Tank. And given Bay's choices, that is NOT a foolish question for Emmett to be asking himself.

No matter what, Bay needs some time to decide what she wants in life, because she doesn't seem to know.

I guess, during their next interaction, we will see if Bay is able to cut the cord on Tank, or if Bay still wants to protect Tank, as she did when she was talking to Emmett during the rain storm.

This summer, Bay needs to be asking herself, "How did I get here? And what do I want?"

If Bay remembered wanting to "go all the way" with Tank and have sex, then fewer people would be questioning whether it was rape.

When Daphne asked Bay if she could have wanted to go all the way and have sex with Tank, Bay replied with a very honest, "I don't know."

Personally, I was shocked that Bay did not answer that question with an emphatic:

"No, no way would I want to have sex with Tank, but even if I did want to have sex with Tank, I would not have wanted to cheat on Emmett. I could NOT have said "yes" and wanted to go all the way and have sex with Tank last night."

But Bay didn't answer Daphne's question that way. She didn't answer it that way at all. And everything Bay has told her parents, Daphne, Toby, and Emmett, since that moment, has indicated to me that Bay believes she made a stupid, drunken mistake, when she chose to party with Tank and have sex with him.

It's so similar to what Emmett did with Simone that I cannot believe it.

I would like to see something happen to bring Bay to a place where she realizes that, at least for her way of thinking, what happened to her is not a rape.

When Bay shared with Emmett, the reasons why her sexual interaction with Tank was her fault, too, I wish the writers had her verbalize that it was not a rape.

Bay was not assaulted by Tank. She could empower herself by owning the mistake, if she still feels it was a mistake.

Sure, Bay can say the mistake was partly Tank's fault, too, that he should have known better than to trust her signals, when she was drunk. But what good comes out of that? How does it help Bay to blame Tank?

The writers will probably leave it gray, though. In fact, the writers may even choose to make Bay pregnant with Tank's baby this summer and have Bay become the first ABC Family character to go through with an abortion, because it is from a rape.

I hope not.

I still hope Bay will verbalize for the audience that she does not believe it was rape.

Perhaps Bay might remember more of that evening, to include her sexual interaction with Tank.

Or perhaps Bay and Tank might have a conversation, where she realizes that her sexual interaction with Tank was a drunken choice that she made and not an assault.

I really don't like thinking of Bay as the victim of a rape. I already feel like Daphne took advantage of Bay and stole her future. I don't want to believe that Tank violated Bay, too.

How much can the writers victimize one character? Why would they do that?

I would rather believe that Bay made a drunken mistake with Tank.

It's not as though that isn't forgivable, especially considering how insecure she was feeling about Emmett. Of course, it is forgivable.

Tank raping Bay, though, that changes the entire tone of the show. If that is the way that the writers leave it, nothing will ever be the same for Bay.

If it was a black and white rape, then Bay could (hopefully) accept it, heal, and move on with her life. She could be a survivor, rather than a victim.

If it was a black and white mistake, then Bay could forgive herself and move on with her life.

But this gray area in between rape and mistake is awful. Bay doesn't know how to process it. It seems like Bay could get lost in the gray and not ever move on.

I hope that doesn't happen to her.

I don't feel Tank is guilty of rape. I want to see Tank vindicated by the college for this crime, as the fraternity at UVA has been vindicated. But that is an unusual story. Rarely does a victim lie.

I do not think Bay is a victim, but Bay didn't lie either. She was honest with the investigator.

The young man at Occidental College is still expelled, and he has been unable to gain admission to any other college. Much attention has recently been drawn to his case, so maybe he will be vindicated yet. This situation certainly seems to be one of society running amok, in trying to protect the rights of a few. Good intentions, but it has been a bad outcome overall.

Maybe the UVA case will add steam (in some roundabout way) to the rights of the young man at Occidental College. Maybe it will help Tank, too.

John S

Brenna, the youngest sister on "Chasing Life" just admitted to having had an abortion several years ago. That's not the same as having one now but she said that she had had one.
Switched At Birth does a poor job of letting it's viewers know how much time has passed. It has been, AT LEAST 4 months. Bay is NOT pregnant.
I am VERY fearful of Bay dating another man. He MIGHT feel that, since she is a felon, that she would be an easy mark, and actually rape her. This is the scenario where I would see a pregnancy. She is 19 and, along with being a felon, who OFTEN lie, she will have claimed that this would be her SECOND rape. Less and less people would believe her a second time.
It doesn't matter what Bay thinks. As I have stated before, there is no way in Hell that Tank will want anything to do with her, either as a friend or as a sexual partner.

In episode 411, Bay will not have a boyfriend nor will she have any friends that she can rely on. Basically, except for Daphne, she will be alone, unless she finds a job somewhere.
You know my "predictions". It is my opinion that Bay's "torture" is only beginning - and her "torture" will lead to Daphne's "torture",

ollibear

Thanks for letting me know. I had not heard, and that's a useful piece of information to have while speculating about the storyline for this summer.

It's interesting. These things tend to go in spurts. One show does something, and then, another follows suit.

I could see the writers of Switched at Birth wanting to do something controversial by having Bay actually be the first character on ABC Family to go through with one during the timeline of the series.

Isn't that the truth! We rarely have a solid idea of the timeline, if ever.

Also, I was just reading a book on advice for TV screenwriters, and the author advised writers to never allow anything important to happen off screen. Ha-ha! That's definitely not the case on Switched at Birth.

On Switched at Birth major events happen off screen and many of them ARE important to the storyline.

Oh, well, maybe that author was wrong, or maybe TV writing is evolving.

His advice centered around keeping a TV audience. Maybe the writers of Switched at Birth know more than he does. Perhaps their decision to fly in the face of his advice will not cost the show any viewers.

Now that is incorrect.

We have two sources for dates during Season 4A, and both sources agree.

One source is the college calendar, and the other source is Bay's probation timeline.

Both sources make it impossible for four months to have passed since Bay & Tank had sex.

In Episode 4x01 It Cannot Be Changed, we pick up in June at the Carlton graduation and immediately fast forward 10 weeks until the week before Emmett and Daphne leave for college.

By the end of that episode, the first one of Season 4, eleven weeks have passed since that mid-June graduation date. When Emmett rides off on his motorcycle, we are firmly at the last week of August 2014.

Then, at the time Bay goes to the dorm party and meets Tank, 87 days have passed, because Bay has just had her ankle monitor cut off by Emmett. (If you remember, in the first episode of the season, Bay told Emmett that the ankle monitor would be removed 87 days after he leaves for college.) Also, Daphne is home for Fall Break, which would be in late November, too.

Then, when Bay goes to LA, it is early to mid December.

Daphne has just finished her first semester of college. On several occasions, the writers indicate, through dialogue, that it is NOT the end of their first year of college, but just the end of the first semester. That is absolutely clear.

Both UMKC and USC share the same exam calendar for the 2014-2015 school year. Both schools have students taking exams from December 10-17, 2014. So Daphne's chemistry exam must have taken place during that week, and the same would be true of Emmett's end-of-the-semester project, his movie short.

So when Bay traveled to LA, it was sometime between December 10th and the 17th. (On a sad note, there was still time for Bay & Emmett to have shared Christmas under the palm trees, because her remaining days of probation were rescinded, but now, that will never be.)

If Bay is pregnant, she and Tank would have conceived in mid to late November. And Bay left Emmett on the beach in LA in mid December.

So if the show picks up soon after Bay put away her box of mementos, the timing works for her to discover that she is pregnant, if that is the direction that the writers want to go.

That worries me, too, except, as mean as these writers are to Bay, I don't think they would be that cruel.

Despite the fact that the show has changed time slots to an hour later (9 PM), I still believe that a number of teenagers watch Switched at Birth, and I just do not believe that the writers will go that dark.

If the series was airing on HBO or Showtime, I would say yes. But on ABC Family? I just do not think so.

I think a pregnancy and abortion for Bay is far more likely.

If it happens, Bay will probably really lament her choice to get so drunk that night. It shows teenagers that there are repercussions. In a way, that's what Tess's character told Bay, but the audience will hear the message much more clearly, if it happens to Bay within the timeline of the show.

You could be right. But I believe that there is a chance that Tank might have more to do with Bay. He may have some anger to vent first, but I still think there is a chance.

But either way, we will find out this summer.

You could very well be right, though. I am just not ready to shut that door yet.

Could very well be true.

I am predicting a Bay pregnancy and abortion. But then again, since she lost her virginity, I have predicted a Bay pregnancy every single hiatus.

The only difference is that, this time, I really do NOT want Bay to be pregnant.

Even if it is Emmett's baby, I do not want Bay to be pregnant. He is not in love with her at the moment, and although he does love her, it would be sad for him to have to give up school, which he loves, to support a baby that he does not want, nor is ready to parent.

And if it is Tank's baby, that opens up a whole world of hurt for Bay. I do not want to see that happen either.

Yes, Season 4B marks the first time I have not wanted Bay to be pregnant. I hope that's not a sign that the writers will give us just that. If so, my heart will be heavy, once again.

I just want to see Bay & Emmett happy, whether together or apart. I want to see them happy. I really care about both of them.

For fictional characters, Bay & Emmett both mean a lot to me.

I hope the writers allow us to see them experience more joy, because after Angelo's death and Bay's encounter with Tank, I need to see that.

It matters to my heart.

John S

I don't believe that Bay will ever have an abortion. I would be more inclined to think that M.S. would be a poor unwed mother, with Regina as the grandmother - just like the series started - the cycle continues - wherever they decide to move to.
I wholeheartedly believe that Daphne would have an abortion(s).
The ONLY interaction that Tank will have with Bay would be to have his reputation restored, even of he has to hurt Bay in the process - but then I believe that Tank and Nacho will be the main factors in her unrelenting pain in 4B.
Don't forget, I am the negative one on this site.

The other thing about Brenna on Chasing Life is that, while she is still in high school and has stated that she has had an abortion, she is now a lesbian. IF she has always been a lesbian, then she MAY have been raped. Since that was on the season finale, we don't know - or maybe she had a boyfriend at the time.

You believe that Daphne was abused by Regina. I would like to hear why you believe that and how you believe that Daphne was abused.

ollibear

That's possible, based on Bay's characterization.

I don't see much controversy in that, though, and these writers like controversy.

I guess we will see soon enough.

No disagreement there. Daphne's character would not even experience any internal conflict over the decision. It would be as cut and dried as ordering take-out.

I don't think we will see Nacho again, but maybe.

I still think Bay & Tank have unfinished business. There is some reason why neither of them has ever been able to let the other go. There is some connection there between them, and I don't think what happened between them at the dorm party, and afterwards, is enough to sever that connection.

Tank forgave Bay for cheating on him and dumping him, after he quit his fraternity. Why wouldn't Tank forgive Bay for this, when it is partly his fault, too?

If Bay shows an interest in him, I don't think Tank can let Bay go. He is addicted to her.

For some reason (and it boggles my mind as to why), Bay & Tank still need each other.

Otherwise, Bay would not have felt compelled to defend Tank to Emmett.

Emmett senses Bay & Tank's connection, too. It's one of the reasons he ended things with Bay.

I won't forget!

I don't specifically remember using the word abused, but maybe I did.

If I did state that Daphne was abused by Regina, I would have meant by a variety of things:

1. Regina's decision to keep the switch a secret from Daphne.

2. Regina's systematic efforts to keep Angelo out of Daphne's life (destroying Angelo's letters to Daphne, not allowing Daphne any contact with him, despite his requests, etc.).

3. The typical abuse and neglect that can stem from alcoholism. If a parent's first love is alcohol, often a child is neglected, and sometimes the child is even emotionally or physically abused. After seeing the way Regina talked to Bay, when she was drunk, I would not doubt for one minute that Regina treated Daphne similarly, when she was growing up. Regina has indicated, several times, that there are many things she did, while drunk, for which she is now extremely ashamed.