Austenphile

But will it be Rumple or the Dark One? I still think that more of the dark one curse has to be in him after his resurrection from the vault. I know it's semantics but I think the final battle will be against the dark one curse and it will finally be defeated so it can never affect anyone again. How?

CityGal

This is the ultimate unknowable, and one of the prime reasons why I continue to watch. I want an answer since the pilot. I realize I am in the tiniest of minorities because most viewers believe Emma breaking the curse was the final battle, but I don't. Emma learning she has magic incrementally is part of her journey to the ultimate battle against "evil." By the time, the series enters its final season, my guess storywise she should be in full command and thus the final challenge to defend the FTL characters will commence.

It could be Rumple as full out DO (it is his curse), but have to wait and see.


ETA - RC recent slew of interviews have only helped me maintain my position.

rpmaluki

I've been thinking about Rumple/Dark One, if whether they can be separated or not. Can it be done and if so, can Rumple keep some of the magic he's learnt over the hundreds of years without the burden of being the DO, the villain?

Rhonwen

We have seen Rumple struggle with the curse, He wanted to do the right thing as the Dark One but the curse consumed him.

There's some goodness in him so he's not an all out villain unable to be redeemed yet. I think a lot of what he's doing is against his will. Meaning that none of this is something he would have done had he not been cursed with magic and darkness. We already have seen that this is not the man he was. So the crust of it is as you say. Can they be seperated now?

How much of what he's doing has to do with his death in the Vault of the DO? How much is his addiction to magic? Can he see what he's doign or is the lure of the hat, etc taking over?

Something happened to him in the Vault to be sure. Maybe more darkness overcame him. He losing his internal struggle and it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Esp since he has TL and with someone who is good and his light.

Rumple's battle with evil is against the curse that resides in him. Can he beat that, overcome it, and still keep his pwoer so he's no longer the good but crippled man that was beaten and kick down by others?

DR76

You call it a curse. I call it a thirst for power and control. Rumpel strikes me as one of those types who had allowed people to kick him around when he was young. I wouldn't be surprised if harbored some kind of inner anger, while he conveyed an attitude of quiet submission to the world in order to keep himself and his family safe. Once he acquired his power, I suspect he had allowed it to go to his head and he never looked back. Some people can handle power. Some cannot. I suspect that deep down, Rumpel is one of the latter. Not really. I noticed how smug and pleased with himself he seemed when Ingrid and her sisters complimented him in one of the flashbacks of this latest episode.


The prophecy was about Emma breaking the curse. And that was because Rumpelstiltskin set it up that way. Does anyone remember this?

I would prefer if it was teamwork, instead of just Emma. Perhaps finally she will learn to get over her "Savior" mentality. And she has it, whether she likes having it or not. Because if this show ends with only Emma giving everyone "their happy ending", I will consider it a complete failure. After all, the end of Buffy featured her defeating the Big Bad as part of team.

Rhonwen

That makes absolutely no sense. He never allowed anyone to kick him around.

If you don't like a character fine, but we have seen the man he was before the curse. And that doesn't go with what you are suggesting.

I call it a curse because that's what it is. It's been said on the show several times. Something evil taking root in him. something that wasn't there before he was cursed.

He can't handle the darkness or power. But we've seen that no one can.

ANyway, this was only brought up because of the way he's being shown onscreen currently.

It's either very bad OOC writign to have a man that wanted to be better and sacrifice himself to all of a sudden change to what we're seeing now. SO it's either bad writing or there's a lot more to the story about what is going on with Rumple than we have seen.

DR76

Yes he did. Why do you think he had acquired a reputation for being cowardly?




Why would you assume that I don't like Rumpel? I'm merely stating my observations of him. I'm sorry if it bothers you.

Jinzle

He got that reputation in part because of his father, and secondly for his conduct during the war. Before that he was treated fairly well by the villagers. I never thought of his as a coward, perhaps someone who made questionable choices, but not a coward. Not being able to defend yourself against bullies is not being cowardly.

Rhonwen

he had the reputation because it carried from father to son. Rumple was given that before he ever had a chance to prove himself.

And I agree.

the term cowardly is used too loosely on the show. Some of the acts that were done are not an act of a coward. The only act Rumple ever did that was cowardly was injuring himself to go home so his son wouldn't be fatherless. Bullying is a form of cowardice that's true. Many of the characters have acted as cowards at one time, but Rumple is the only one that has it tagged. Plus he's vile too

anyway lets stick to the topic of the episode. This type of conversations tend to lead unpleasantness.

CityGal

Ah, yeah, I do. It wasn't about just the curse. "And the final battle will begin." said with the infamous Rumple chuckle. Does anyone remember this?


That may be your preference, but I don't believe it is what Adam and Eddy envisioned. And you often seem to bring "Buffy" into Emma and this over arching story as comparison and I don't know why. Emma's not daily slaying vampires (nor villains). Thematically the shows couldn't be more different.

DigificWriter

I don't presume to speak for Rhonwen, but the reason that I would read your comments and think you don't like the character is because you're trying to paint him as a completely different character than he has been consistently portrayed as being. You're trying to paint him as an out-and-out villain when, as I've noted before, he's never been portrayed that way even if the writers and Robert do refer to him as such.

Austenphile

:raises_hand: I do. I have thought that the final battle against evil is ongoing with Cora, Neal, Pan and Zelena its casualties. Good 3 Evil 1 so far. (I guess we could add Graham, Greg and Tamara so Good 5 Evil 2)

rpmaluki

You know I always felt Rumple's true act of cowardice was when he wouldn't go with Bae to the land with no magic. The term coward was unfairly thrust upon him because of his father and because he feared living up to that, every action potentially proved people right because they there were all these expectations around him. He was afraid of dying in a war yes, but his love for Bae (at least for me) far outweighed his "cowardice" act to escape war and as a father, I always felt he put his son above himself. My memory might be hazy but that sacrifice couldn't have been easy for him, since he hated people thinking him a coward, so why give them even more ammunition?

GrhmLz

We can even call that into question because of the intent behind Rumple's actions. Sure, to some, like Milah, his actions may have come across 'cowardly' but that is not a label that is somehow finite and non-disputable just because some characters thought it about him. But from Rumple POV, putting his son first and thinking of his welfare, meant the risk of acquiring the same label as his father, and some might even view this as an act of courage because I am sure he had an idea of the stigma he could have been facing by being selfless on Bae's behalf (making sure he had a father there for him who loved him).

Pre-Dark One Rumple, from s1, struck me as more of a gentle natured soul who carried more of a pacifist nature. It bugs me that this somehow transistions into a misinterpretation of being cowardly. What, because he did not like to fight? So what. I can relate to that because I am by the nature the same way. I hate conflict and prefer peaceful measures.

But connecting this into this episode about whatever Rumple's agenda is, I do think the Dark Curse is a curse that influences him and makes it difficult to completely steer free and clear from the darker impulses and the use of his magic. Like when Zoso tricked him, he said he could spot a desperate soul, and now that soul is tainted and marked by the curse.

At this point, I do think Rumple is searching for a way to keep his power while freeing himself of that curse. I am not sure I buy into some plot for world domination by Rumple outside of Storybrook, LOL, but it could very well be that outside of SB simply means a fresh start. I think it is likely that he believes the dagger is what keeps his soul imprisoned to the Dark One Curse so it is not fundamentally about pursuing evil desires for himself at Rumple's core. But if the Dark One Curse has a stronger hold on him because the Vault once contained him? That could be a central driving force as of right now. But I think at the root of himself he just can not let go of the power because of his vulnerabilities connected to the past and being bullied. This preys on him so maintaining the use of his magic remains very enticing and addictive.

If he overcomes his vulnerabilites, I think there is nothing stopping TL from freeing his soul from the Dark One Curse. The darkness will not have anything to attach to, to prey on.

Rhonwen

Perfectly stated thank you.

I'll leave it at that.