Nad

Supporter list:

1. Fred Pryce (Louise)
2. Andie
3. Moonie
4. CTUgal21 (Shauna)
5. KerBear
6. Angelcakes_UK
7. bones_em_temp (Sara)
8. Angel2005 (Francie)
9. Calgaryfan2006
10. only girl(Aroa)
11. Dreamer~Candy4eva (Emma)
12. Nad
13. PamBeesly
14. Kate Summers
15. adristar
16. courtney921
17. Blue_Nintsu
18. little_profiler
19. *Lori89*
20. amy2345
21. AppleBehryGrl23
22. Rouweida
23. AlexandraMavier
24. B.Chambers
25. a creative one
26. true colours

Andie

Thanks for the new thread Nad

We really need some art for the OP

amy2345

I was reading the old thread. Yes Gordon coming back and helping Zach would be totally cool. Also Goodman as well. I truly hate Cam. She sucks. Goodman was so much better than Cam. Plus, Gordon I liked him better than Sweets.

Oh, please can you add me to list. I truly loved the Zach character.

Nad

Sure, I'll get you added right away

If anyone has a better idea for the thread title let me know, my title muse went missing today

Andie, agreed - the opening post needs some pretty arts - anyone up to the task?

amy2345

Thanks for adding me.

Augusta

OMG! I just watched the s3 finale and can I just say... I'm sooo p'd off! That was so OCC for Zack that it's insane. Not at all believable. GRRR. No way could he have stood there, even as an apprentance, as the "master" guy attempted to kill Brennan and Seely and threaten the rest of them.

Oh man, did I mention I'm peeved?

I think I need a drink, LOL.


Why is it always my favorite character who ends up being killedo ff/written out of the show?

ETA- May I please be added to the list?

Nad

Yes and you obviously need a I'm still in denial about the season finale and I'm sure a lot of Zack fans feel the same way

Sure, adding you right now

Augusta

Ah, so my grief has compelled me to search around on the net and I'm glad to know I'm not alone in having strong feelings on the subject of Zack and the finale (not that I assumed I was).

I was thinking about it, after reading that due to the writer's strike they weren't able to build up to it, they had two episodes to just do it. I think that in season 4, at some point, they need to bring Eric back and do some flashback scenes, maybe him at home, trying to deal with some PTS or something. ANYTHING to explain or back up the total OOC actions we all had to endure in that episode.

Bah, still annoyed. Still shocked and heartbroken

globe2912- Thanks so much for adding me to the list, and for the hug! back atcha!

Augusta

Found this on a website, thought I'd bring it over. I didn't edit my last post because this is something sort of different.



The Evolution of Zack Addy - How he became a killer

There are many fans upset with the revelation that our beloved Zack could be gone. The fact that he could be a killer makes them mad.

My thought? It makes sense.

Here's why.

Purpose. Zack desperately wanted a purpose. He tried to find it in Iraq but they sent him home due to 'failure to assimilate' and with the idea that it was wrong that the Jeffersonian was the only place he could fit. He needed to find his own purpose.

Note: Sweets pointed out early in Season 3 that the silver skeleton was 'Gormogon's sole purpose. Zack was not there for that but it was a hint if a connection. On re-watching the Gormogon episodes this past Sunday that scene was my first hint that Zack was the apprentice.

Personality. Zack's entire personality, as most people view the concept, was defined by imitating others. His sole quirks and markers were the result of his rational brain. His hobbies and loves all had rational backing. Model airplanes? Applied engineering. Love of singing? Calculated to win friends. King of the Lab? You could see that even when he claimed the title, Zack often had a look of 'I don't get this game'. He played it because Hodgins did. Being correct in his science was all Zack needed. Hodgins even said to him at one point, "If you're ever going to properly imitate being human..." We had all the signs and what they all pointed to was a weak personality who was primed for someone with a stronger personality to come in and give him purpose without trying to influence Zack's own personality.

Most of the people around Zack had someone, in the end. Hodgins and Angela had each other. And more and more Brennan, his scientific mentor and mother figure, had Booth. Cam was becoming his new mother figure but it seemed to be too little, too late. Zack needed a strong guide and his main ones - Hodgins and Brennan - now had other concerns. That left him ripe for the Master's picking.

But what truly made the transition to killer possible? His supreme governing nature:

The Rational. The one thing Zack could truly lay claim to was his intellect and rational being. In Season 1 he was asked what he would do if someone presented him with an irrefutable argument to do something others would deem wrong. His answer? Not without checking with Dr. Brennan, Angela, and others first. But they have drawn more and more into other relationships leaving him more isolated, more vulnerable.

Logic and reason were the only things Zack could call his own. Brennan is very much like Zack, but with her strong emotional attachment to Booth and reverence for life her rational brain is tempered by a vibrant heart. This is how she knew exactly how Zack reached his conclusions, without falling prey to them herself.

(Note: I cried like crazy on re-watching this scene.)
Zack: If you knew what I know, you'd understand. You'd be proud of me.
Brennan: I've always been proud of you, Zack. I've never met anyone more rational or intelligent. But there's a fault in your logic.
Zack: With all due respect, you aren't cognizant of his logic.
Brennan: Assumption number 1: Secret societies exist.
Zack: Accepted. Hodgins has been explaining this to me for years.
Brennan: Assumption number 2: The human experience is adversely affected by secret societies.
Zack: Accepted.
Brennan: Assumption number 3: Attacking and killing members of secret societies will have an ameliorating (improving) affect on the human experience.
Zack: Accepted.
Brennan: All of your assumptions are built on a first principle, Zack. To wit: the historical human experience as a whole is more important than a single person's life.
Zack: Yes.
Brennan: Yet you risked it all so you wouldn't hurt Hodgins.

I really cried when they did...

Zack is more rational but Brennan is more complete. She acknowledges, to a point, her heart and therefore can incorporate it into her decision-making. By ignoring it or not understanding it Zack is even more at it's mercy. He realized this too late.

This wasn't as sudden as it seemed, to me. It was foreshadowed heavily in 'The Verdict in the Story'. Zack made mistakes? He could make a bigger one. Brennan is rationally capable of taking a life? Then Zack most definitely is. But there's a difference. Brennan could do it to rationally head off a death of a loved one: brain tempered by heart. Zack could do it on the basis of any irrefutable argument. Personal relationships need not, and should not, be involved.

Zack is not insane and Sweets knows it. Some might rationally try to argue he is in some ways more highly evolved, beyond what society can handle. Science is striving to create robots unconcerned with emotions. Personally, though, I think it could be a bit exhausting to have a robot to which you must prove the reasoning for every command...

We're not supposed to see Zack as 'bad'. For all his intellect and all his logic he never could grasp the one most important aspect of the human condition:

Booth: Brain and Heart, Bones. Brain and Heart.

Zack missed the heart completely. And for that we should feel sad.


Obsessed with Bones: The Evolution of Zack Addy - How he became a killer

marewillow

Thanks for bringing that over, hon.

At least he/she put some thought and effort into his/her argument. I still disagree, though. In the examples I cited in the last thread I tried to show that Zack is not a weak personality; he's stood up to everyone in the lab despite his respect (and maybe fear) of them. He's also shown heart in how he treats his co workers and friends. I also think he he knows exactly what "King of the Lab" means, that's why Cam had a trophy made for him.

I also wonder how Gormogon knew who Zack was and knew exactly how to get to him.

I’m sorry to have stolen your thunder, Jen!

As you know KotG was on the other night and I paid special attention to it. Most of what I’d said from that ep was from memory but you got the part about the teeth bomb exactly right. There’s no way Zack would follow Gormogon after that. I kept trying to figure out when Zack was supposedly recruited. It would’ve had to have happened during this ep but I don’t see when. As I’ve tried to show, Zack has no problem speaking up when he thinks others are mistaken and he can’t keep a secret. There’s no way he would’ve kept quiet during this ep and no way he would’ve joined Gormogon after the events of this ep. Plus, we never hear of this conference that Zack went to. How did Gormogon get in? When has Zack ever gone to a conference?

Here are a few more examples from other eps. I’m sure I’ll have more from KotG once I’ve watched my tape and taken notes.

Zack stands up to Booth about his experiment. He fist bumps with Hodgins. Zack had no problem calling the serial killer Gormogon and was not enamored of him. Zack asks Angela about her being married yet sleeping with Hodgins. Angela points out how Hodgins is a perfect candidate for Gormogon. Zack corrected Brennan & tells her she used to appreciate his being precise. (The Intern in the Incinerator)

Zack stands up to Cam about needing access to the bones. He stands up to Booth and Brennan about the “broadsword”. He tells Booth that you can’t see smell. (The Spaceman in the Crater)

Zack used to have a Michael Jackson glove. He looked sad that the victim could have been abused. (The Boy in the Time Capsule)

Zack uses “slug” that Cam taught him. He disagrees with Angela about her facial reconstruction. He will only recheck when presented with a scientific rational. He later stands up to both Brennan and Angela. Hodgins asks Zack to be his best man showing that Zack has friends who care about him and accept him. He didn’t think about the ageing disease and tells Hodgins that he will think about being his best man. He asks Booth about Iraq and being shot despite Booth’s antagonistic attitude. The camera focuses on Zack when the minister says family. (The Stargazer in the Puddle)

Mare

Augusta

marewillow- I totally agree with your points. I don't agree 100% with the person who wrote that little thing up that I brought over, but I could tell he gave it a lot of thought, which is why I brought it over.

Not at all was Zack a "weak" personality, your right. Maybe he started out that way but I clearly remember him punching Hodgins... not weak imo. But then again, the argument that Zack ran on facts and if someone gave him the right argument, his overly-large brain could have gotten confused and found the argument worth the action... I can see that happening. But he wasn't a "weak personality". He was curious and hands on in life, but I have no doubt he had a love for people and "normal things" as well. He may not have showed it like the others, but I have no doubt inside, when Hodgins and Bones were kidnapped in s1, he was feeling what everyone else was expressing. And that simple reason is why I refuse to believe that character was capable of assisting Gormogon and in that one case, actually taking a life. I think the writers pulled that out of their... erm.. you know where. If you look back at the character of Zack Addy, from the very first episode on, then see the crap they showed us in the s3 finale, it is COMPLETELY OOC for that to have taken place.

I can see him, due to his accelerated intelligence, not having experienced ones typical milestones when others do.... dating, heartbreak, close ties, sexual experiences, etc etc and that very well had to do with the "weirdness" we saw of him in the lab. Not knowing how to deal with situations that the others knew about. Sort of like Bones; Angela, however, went out of her way to try and bring her into "normal life", going out to clubs, thinking with your emotion and not your brain. Unfortunately, like they said there at the end of last season's episode, they did not go out of their way to do so with Zack, for whatever reason.

I too wonder how Gormogon got to him... and how he knew the connection Zack had with the Jeffersonian, etc... I hope that eventually that is answered.

EXACTLY! Bones was his mentor, sort of his mother figure... the idea that the person he was 'following' and assisting was making direct hits at her, I can't imagine Zack just sat there, all "weak personalitied" and watched. I imagine that if Zack DID side with evil and destruction, he would object to any "unnecessary" strikes, yknow?

I love your examples, could not have laid them out better myself

Point being... he had too much emotion in him (maybe it didn't show as much as the others, but it was in there and he felt it) to have done or assisted in these things. Again, my conclusion: OOC and totally out of the left field.

ETA-

Also.... does this look like someone who could have taken even just one life??

YouTube - Bones Season 2 - Stab the Dummy

C'mon now...

Augusta

I started a thread for Eric Millegan over in the Male Celebrities area, case anyone is interested:

http://www.fanforum.com/f26/eric-mil.../#post25058769

BonesOCD

No Problem!! It was actually very nice to see SOMEONE else on was actually feeling some of the same things I was.

You're right, he didn't have to be recruited during this eppy, but it had to have been around this time frame, and it is the murder at the end of this eppy that he's accused of. So, that why I made a point of talking about how problematic this one eppy was.
Put aside the fact that I love Zack as a character, and I'd simply hate to believe he was capable of this... they created their own paradox by using this crime as the basis of his guilt.

I 100% agree with you... Zack is not "weak minded". He processes information differently then most of the rest of the world, but that doesn't mean he isn't as firm in his convictions.
He's shown us , in his own way, his empathy for the victims of the crimes they solve. I just don't buy that someone could "logic" him into believing that murder was part of the solution to any problem. He would look for a more "rational" solution.
In my opinion he'd be trying to convert Gormogon, not killing for him.

marewillow

AppleBehryGrl23:

I'm glad you brought that post over. I like to read different pov's esp. when they're well thought out.

Thanks for posting the 'stab the dummy link' too. They said in KotG that whoever stabbed the bishop had to be very strong. I'd assume that would go for anyone. This shows Zack could never have done it. He doesn't even have the rage to give him strength. They even showed the gang grinning at Zack's attempt at stabbing.

I finally got a chance to take notes on this ep and here's what I came up with:

Zack says king of the lab and he knows exactly what it means. He works this whole case and sees it from Brennan’s pov. As he has shown in the past, if he agreed with Gormogon he would speak up. Zack finds out that there’s more than one Gormogon. Sweets talks about at risk kids. Hodgins points out that Gormogon is nuts. Sweets says we’re looking for a kid in his teens. Zack works on the complete skeleton that they found in the mausoleum, cataloguing the various victims. He stands up to Angela about the number/letter combo on the bone. Zack finds a way for them to get into the safe deposit drawer. Gormogon recruits disturbed boys. Zack is not disturbed and is no longer a boy. He is working on the skeleton with Cam during the montage. (The Knight on the Grid)

Zack went to open mic night with the gang, showing that even post Iraq, he was part of the gang. (The Wannabe in the Weeds)

Zack can't keep a secret. It would be hard enough for a regular person to have a double life as Gormogon's apprentice, never mind Zack. I don't think he could pull it off.

I agree with your post, Jen. I can totally see Zack telling Gormogon how wrong he is. Rewatching the eps. I've noticed that Zack stands up to someone in the lab at least once an ep. These are people he respects, and he still speaks up when he thinks he's right. That's hardly a weak personality.

That's where HH made his mistake; Zack doesn't have a weak personality and there's nothing logical about killing people, eating them, and putting their bones on a silver skeleton.

How is it that they never found Gormogon? They had the nursing home staked out and were checking into all the kids that Gormogramps had “helped”. How did they never find this “nobody”?

It’s too much of a coincidence that so many of the guys on the trip to Turkey were widow’s sons and fit the Gormogon tarot cards i.e. musician, bishop, corruptor etc. I also find it hard to believe that someone as young as Gavin Nichols was in the Knights of Columbus. Young people don’t really join groups like that anymore. I’d say the lobbyist would be the youngest member of the group. Plus, what about people in secret societies that don’t fir the criteria? Aren’t they a threat too?

Since Gormogon removed his teeth for the bomb and needed Zack to make him new ones, how could some toothless guy convince Zack of any kind of logic? Not to mention, if Zack was already working for him he would either have defended him before or turned him in after the attempt on Booth and Brennan’s life.

Zack wouldn't take an intuitive leap in Mummy in the Maze even for Brennan till she invoked Einstein. I really don't see him listening to some "nobody".

It’s too bad cause I really enjoyed this ep and was excited about the arc but this retcon spoils it all.

Mare

Augusta

marewillow- I totally love your notes and I'm going to look back on those episodes and put the points you brought up into my little 'evidence' word document that I'm putting together. I was thinking about trying to drum up interest in the fans to make something to send to HH, show him it was a mistake doing what he did with Zack; getting petition with a LOT of names going, make a mock 'evidence' folder with all these facts and 'evidence' to show Zack's innocence. Something like that.

If anyone wants to help, most definitely feel free. I'm slooowlly starting it.

ETA- I was wondering if someone could help explain to me, since I feel like I'm missing something here; did they say ion the show how Zack supposedly killed that intern? Did he actually do it or is it just assumed?