Dawson's Creek - Anti PJ #60-because joey was the rebound girl, not the lifetime commitment - Page 11

atwoodsmariano · 09-13-2018, 06:46 PM

I liked that Dawson and Pacey were in a really good place in their friendship as well in the S4 finale

not to say that friendship didn't stay strong in S5 and 6 with some of my favorite moments but I really liked where it was at by the end of S4 more than the end of any other season honestly

Forwood4Bamon · 09-15-2018, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post)

What makes the episode so satisfying is that Pacey finally regained his stones and finally stood up to Joey and her so called pity and subtle verbal bullying. \\

What makes his episode even better is this episode was meant to break up Pacey and Joey FORVER

The reason I say this is the following.

When the first season was filmed the TPTB felt there was a good chance that all they were going to get was one season; so they ended the season with Dawson gets the girl (Joey) and the last scene of the final episode was Dawson and Joey together in his room kissing.

Now during season four which TPTB felt there was a good chance that season four was to be their final season did the following

1 They had the anti-prom episode, which finished Pacey and Joey forever. No couple comes back from that tirade.

2. Andie was brought back for graduation and her and Pacey had a magical moment, which gave the newly single Pacey and Andie a good foundation to renew their relationship.

3. The final scene of the last episode of season four is identical to the final episode of season one. The exact same shot, same music playing, and Dawson and Joey kissing in his room

So at the end of season four you have Dawson and Joey reunited, Pacey and Andie in a good place. The series ends and all is right
with the world . Then came the unexpected season five.

So much for the P/J'ers who claim Pacey and Joey were foreshadowed .
from season one.

No way

I'll remember I dont feel it.

atwoodsmariano · 09-15-2018, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post)

I am not so sure it was the fandom that pushed P/J. Pacey/Andie were very popular at the end of season two..

Look at how the writers completely destroyed Andie's character to even make P/J viable. P/J was Greg Berlanti's idea.

Kw had mentioned it, but I am almost positive he would have not destroyed Andie to make it happen

The reason it seems there are so many P/j'ers compared to P/Ais that most of them quit the show in disgust after the assassination of Andie and they never followed the show after that

Between seasons 2 and 3 the show lost 1.4 million viewers per episode. I wonder how many of them were P/A?

Also KW did not decide on the P/J ending till half way through his writing of the final two episodes. I am positive it was the unavailability of Meredith Monroe who was filming something else. So he could not get the 2 or 3 weeks he needed to write the story he wanted.

From what i have read it was Julie Plec who insisted P/A have some sort of final clear the air encounter. Thus the cut from TV scene of Pacey and Andie in the hospital cafeteria.

Originally the last scene of the show was to be Pacey and Andie going off to dinner. Not as lovers, but as friends with a hint the relationship might change.

Interesting facts:

1. KW never understood why they wrote Andie off the show, and the way they treated her character. So was Julie Plec

2. In the E. online interview KW stated if he was to write a movie Joey and Pacey would be divorced. And Dawson never found "True Love". One can see where that would be heading.

3. Joshua Jackson was very angry and upset when they let Meredith Monroe go. At the 100th episode he walked around with a picture of Meredith Monroe pinned over his heart and scrawled across the picture was "I love Andie"

Sasha Alexander said in an interview the only time she Saw Joshua Jackson angry and upset was Meredith Monroe's last day on set

It was never supposed to end P/J

I do feel like PJ ending up together was extremely shoehorned and that whole BS about Jen's death being the catalyst for Joey choosing between Dawson and Pacey

it would've been nice if the ending had been more open-ended/leave it to your own interpretation

in the end I feel like Pacey let his insecurities get the best of him when he was with Joey but he definitely made the right decision to break up with her

#justice for Jen honestly

https://nypost.com/2018/01/19/an-ope...ons-creek/amp/

^I wanted to post that link in the anti-Joey thread but it's closed

I love this girl's sentiments

http://sulietsexual.tumblr.com/post/...n-on-this-site

http://sulietsexual.tumblr.com/post/...a-on-paceyjoey

Forwood4Bamon · 09-20-2018, 06:23 AM

what do those tumblr posts say?

atwoodsmariano · 09-20-2018, 11:05 AM

Quote:

I think you’re the only person on this site besides me who shipped Joey/Dawson over Joey/Pacey or Dawson/Jen! I’d love it if you could talk about why!!

Anonymous

So, the thing is, the way I ship Joey/Dawson is kind of weird, in that I ship what they could have been rather than the actual relationship which played out on the show (which was kind of a mess). But I love the story of Joey and Dawson, the two best friends, the soulmates who grew up together, who know one another in their bones, whose relationship is built on this beautiful history and a foundation of friendship, trust and knowing a person better than they know themselves. I love ships with history, ships where the parties have been friends first and Joey and Dawson fit that to a T.

As for why I ship it over Pacey/Joey, again, it’s kind of weird. My not shipping Joey and Pacey comes not from shipping Joey/Dawson over them but from shipping Andie/Pacey over them. Andie and Pacey are my Dawson’s Creek OTP, I absolutely adore their relationship, the depth and maturity of it, the way it’s a completely equal partnership between two people who absolutely adore one another, respect one another and grow and change because of one another. I will forever be gutted that the ship was obliterated in such an OOC way (in what universe would Andie ever cheat on Pacey?) in order to make way for the insipid Joey/Dawson/Pacey triangle.

I also don’t find Joey/Pacey to be anywhere near as endearing as everyone else seems to. It’s beyond obvious that Pacey is more into the relationship than Joey is (she is constantly picking other guys over him), he pretty much loses himself in the relationship and does everything for Joey, while she gives not much in return. Then we find out that the relationship and Joey actually make Pacey feel worse about himself, and while it’s not on Joey to make Pacey feel good nor is it her responsibility to make him happy or a better man, the fact that being with her causes him such debilitating self-doubt and self-loathing (compare with the confidence and growth his relationship with Andie gives him) is a major red flag.

All up, I just really don’t like Joey and Pacey and wish Pacey’s endgame had been Andie and that the Joey/Dawson relationship had been written better and that the two had ended up together at the end of the series.

Quote:

spill the tea on pacey/joey

Anonymous

Hoo boy, I have so much tea to spill here, especially since I recently did a Dawson’s Creek rewatch *cracks knuckles*

So, the thing is, I do understand why so many fans OTP Pacey and Joey especially compared to the train wreck that is Joey/Dawson. When held up to the latter, Pacey and Joey seem like a much better fit and it helps that Joshua Jackson and Katie Holmes had really good chemistry. However, under closer scrutiny, Pacey and Joey aren’t actually that great a couple, especially when one compares them not to Joey/Dawson but to Pacey and Andie but we’ll get into that later. For now, let’s talk about Pacey and Joey as a couple and the issues within the relationship.

Right from the start it’s made very clear that Pacey is more into the relationship than Joey is. That creates an imbalance within the dynamic and any inequality in a relationship is not good. All of Season 3 shows Pacey pining for Joey while she remains oblivious to his feelings and openly dates other guys, ignoring/overlooking his efforts to help her and only cluing in once he kisses her. Even then she takes forever to actually choose him, returning to Dawson first before finally entering a relationship with Pacey. In all honesty, I don’t find Pacey’s pursuit of her in Season 3 endearing because it’s so frustrating to watch him have to take a backseat so often while she remains oblivious to his feelings and shows little indication of returning his affections.

Then their relationship in Season 3 is riddled with issues. They don’t often communicate well, Pacey tends to be somewhat of a dick at times and Dawson is always - always - looming over their relationship. Surprisingly this is not Dawson’s fault, he spends the majority of the season with Gretchen and never interferes in Pacey and Joey’s relationship. However, any time Joey and Pacey fight (and they fight surprisingly often) Dawson comes up. Pacey has raging insecurities over Dawson and Joey’s previous relationship with him and he never gets over it. This does not make for a healthy relationship with Joey.

And Joey, bless her heart, does not seem to be able to let go of Dawson despite choosing Pacey. She gets jealous when Dawson enters a relationship with Gretchen, is upset when she finds out Dawson is planning to sleep with Gretchen, lies to Dawson about sleeping with Pacey and is only able to consummate her relationship with Pacey after speaking with Dawson and justifying in her mind that she and Dawson won’t be able to lose their virginity to one another. How is a relationship supposed to function when there is always a third person present?

Lastly, Pacey ends up hating himself because of his relationship with Joey. This is in no way Joey’s fault, she is not to blame for Pacey’s insecurities but the bottom line is you can’t be with someone if they make you feel inferior and Joey does that to Pacey. He spends much of the latter half of Season 4 feeling smaller and smaller, believing he has no future and realising that Joey is moving further and further away from him. It wasn’t healthy or good for Pacey (or for Joey, really, as he comes to resent her for this) and it’s just another reason why their relationship wasn’t great.

Lastly, I want to come back to my earlier point about the relationship paling in comparison to Pacey and Andie. Where Joey and Pacey have communication issues, always have Dawson hanging over them and are unequal and end up making Pacey feel horrendous about himself, Pacey and Andie are the opposite of this. They work through their issues openly, Dawson obviously isn’t a factor and Andie not only believes in and encourages Pacey, she helps Pacey to believe in himself. He tells Andie that he sees a future for himself, that she’s opened him up to possibilities and to the idea that he might be able to make something of himself. Pacey is actually his worst self by the end of his relationship with Joey, treating her badly and hating himself but he’s his best self with Andie. finding self-acceptance and love and appreciating and adoring her.

And I know the Joey/Pacey stans are going to start talking about how Andie cheated on Pacey and all I have to say to that is that it was a grossly OOC moment for her and was only written into the story in order to break up Pacey and Andie to make way for Pacey and Joey. It came across as a last-minute decision, made in the hiatus between Seasons 2 and 3 in order to shake things up on the show.

So there’s my tea on why Pacey and Joey kind of really sucked as a pairing.

there we go

Forwood4Bamon · 09-22-2018, 07:41 AM

completely agree. I do like joey and always will, but I don't like how she is with pacey. She used to be so more grounded.

**bittersweet** · 01-17-2019, 07:17 PM

I just read the last few pages and...word. To everything.

OBSESSED with how Joshua Jackson was so upset when Meredith left and WORE A PICTURE OF HER over his heart at the 100th episode party.

I had no idea "I love Andie" was written on that picture.

Forwood4Bamon · 01-18-2019, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **bittersweet** (View Post)

I just read the last few pages and...word. To everything.

OBSESSED with how Joshua Jackson was so upset when Meredith left and WORE A PICTURE OF HER over his heart at the 100th episode party.

I had no idea "I love Andie" was written on that picture.

how many fights every time I rewatch. not resolving anything?

SunnyOiler35 · 05-21-2019, 01:14 PM

I was just thinking that Pacey was the worst kind of friend. Not only did he go after his best friends girlfriend (ex gf or not), He purposefully went out of his way to go after her! The episode when they went to Dawson's aunts house, the one before that when he helped with the BB ( also any one find it creepy how he was just sitting in a chair just watching Joey sleep). Ok if he had feelings for her fine I get it but at least man up and tell him. But no they both snuck around Dawson's back for a while until he found out. TPTB really messed that whole story line up.

The end especially, writing lines for JVDB and then giving them to Josh to sooth the mob mentality that was P/J shippers was utterly wrong.

Even the opening credits showcased D/J together more than any one on the show!

atwoodsmariano · 05-21-2019, 03:39 PM

the sneaking around annoyed the **it out of me

such a **itty thing to do

this is why I hate The Longest Day episode

TL22 · 08-04-2019, 07:41 PM

Starting with season three the show went into a long decline. P/J was ridiculous. Joey never got over Dawson. It was so obvious. With all the fighting and arguing I could never see the great romance of P/J.

I actually thought they sent the wrong girl to the mental hospital. In what sane relationship does the girl have a melt down every time she sees her EX with a girl, especially with her boyfriend standing next to her.

I never re-watch Dawson's Creek after season two, except for a few selected episodes like Andie returns for graduation and my all time favourite episode PROMICIDE which ended P/J forever except when KW had a brain fart and ended the series P/J at the last minute.

IN what world does a girl who has had nothing to do with the guy for seven years. I choose you and he drops his life and goes off to NYC with her.

I always wonder if Joey's ex-boyfriend was still paying for the apartment, which she could never afford on a assistant editors salary, let alone the TV on the wall.

P/J the most screwed up couple ever.

Forwood4Bamon · 09-23-2019, 06:57 AM

its like how many fights about dawson already? 10000000?

TL22 · 11-14-2019, 01:06 PM

Wasn't something like 8:55 PM every Wednesday Pacey and Joey would make up, only to start the fight all over again the next week?

The fights were always about Dawson. I have always been curious why a smart guy like Pacey never figured out that Joey was still into Dawson.

Forwood4Bamon · 11-18-2019, 07:36 AM

same fights and it was vicious.

atwoodsmariano · 07-18-2020, 06:31 PM

Pacey was so insecure with Joey

complete opposite when he was with Andie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal Clear (View Post)

People say that Pacey went through a tough time with Andie, but he never looked more burdened by issues on the show than when he got involved with Joey. It cost him his long-time friendship with Dawson, and his school grades started suffering. Plus, it made a mockery of everything that had come prior in their lives. Pacey was the person who kept talking Dawson and Joey into confessing their true feelings for each other (in seasons 1 and 2) so nobody knows how strong D/Jo is more than Pacey does. Again, this explains why he's so miserable when he entangles himself in a love triangle with them. He keeps comparing himself to Dawson and trying to force Joey into saying they have a "soul mates" connection like she has with Dawson.

seeing this again now and it’s well-stated

Quote:

Pacey has been reduced to wanting what D/Jo has, just one season after he had been in a loving relationship with Andie.

also agree with that

it was a loving relationship

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > Dawson's Creek > Anti PJ #60-because joey was the rebound girl, not the lifetime commitment