[LiaRaye]

And don't get me wrong, I love Dawson and Joey both individually.
I love Dawson and I think he's a great person.

It's just together, they make everything seem so complicated, when it's not.
You're either friends or you're a couple.
If you can't seem to get out of the in-between, then I think you aren't meant to.

[firewall]

Originally Posted by LiaRaye (View Post) If someone only ever saw season 1 or maybe 2, I can kind-of understand them liking D/J.

I would alter that to, if someone only ever saw season 1. Because I liked them during S1 (before the rest of the show ever existed, of course). It was S2 that made me really, really dislike them as a couple. And then by S3 I just loathed them together completely. Thank goodness Pacey stepped in and saved the day, because I would have stopped watching the show entirely if that hadn't happened.

Or maybe everytime they say the word 'soulmate

Yes, drinking will help keep me from rolling my eyes!!!

[fringe du jour]

drinking will help keep me from rolling my eyes!!!

Actually, being passed out from too much alcohol would keep your eyes from rolling. You know how they loved to bandy about that word.

[Rachey1984]

Originally Posted by rainydreams (View Post) Thank goodness Pacey stepped in and saved the day

Well after all Pacey is the greatest character in television history. Ever. Period.

The thing I disliked the most is Joey constantly going back to Dawson even when she was supposed to be having a relationship with Pacey. How inconsiderate can one person be? And that is vice versa with Dawson having a girlfriend of his own (Gretchen) but still bothered about whether Joey and Pacey have had sex.

Seriously, I don't know how both Pacey and Gretchen put up with DJ during those S4 months.

[Seersha]

^ So true, Rach.

I think it was harder for both of them in different ways. Gretchen, because she had been away from Capeside for a while and struggled to fully understand the D/J/P entanglements. Pacey had it tough too, precicesly for the opposite reason - because he did fully understand it! And had in fact been a first-hand witness to the D/J friendship and relationship and any dramas they may have had. Couldn't really win either way, really.

I am sure it broke his heart to watch Joey running back to Dawson or walk on eggshells around him so terrified of hurting his feelings etc. But I think Pacey just loved her so much that he only wanted her to be happy, even if it meant just keeping his mouth shut. Until he didn't, of course

Anyway, just another reason the D/J relationship wasn't healthy or good, because it negatively affected others around them at times, too (i.e. S4 as discussed).

[Rachey1984]

Originally Posted by Seersha (View Post) Pacey had it tough too, precicesly for the opposite reason - because he did fully understand it! And had in fact been a first-hand witness to the D/J friendship and relationship and any dramas they may have had.

This is so true. It's almost as if Pacey made allowances for Joey and Dawson's behaviour because he had witnessed their dance, first hand.

[clarkson_fan]

I think one of the biggest was Pacey letting the whole Joey lied to Dawson about them having sex thing slide. He doesn't talk to her about it and just lets her off the hook (He does that a bit, but thats what makes him the best TV character. Ever. Period) and then in the next episode when Joey says she doesn't know why she lied, he just says its okay, because at least now she told the truth. I really don't think Pacey would have reacted to calmly about it and that was a big mistake on the writers part, focusing too much on DJ and not enough on PJ, who were THE couple of season 4. They just let it slide, like Pacey, because they were always, like Joey too delicate and frankly idiotic, when it came to Dawson.

[Rachey1984]

Originally Posted by clarkson_fan (View Post) I really don't think Pacey would have reacted to calmly about it and that was a big mistake on the writers part, focusing too much on DJ and not enough on PJ, who were THE couple of season 4. They just let it slide, like Pacey, because they were always, like Joey too delicate and frankly idiotic, when it came to Dawson.

I totally agree with you. Pacey would never be that calm about Joey and Dawson still stuck in the past. He would have a right to he hurt, angry or jealous and the writers should have showed those true feelings any human person would feel. We could see how upset Pacey was when he found out that Joey lied about the sex during the scene where they're both walking in the mist/fog and he seems so distant with her, that's the beginning of their downfall in my eyes.

Pacey was clearly angry inside about everything, as we saw during his outburst at Joey in 'Promicide'

[clarkson_fan]

Where's the anti-DJ hate?

Originally Posted by Rachey1984 (View Post) I totally agree with you. Pacey would never be that calm about Joey and Dawson still stuck in the past. He would have a right to he hurt, angry or jealous and the writers should have showed those true feelings any human person would feel. We could see how upset Pacey was when he found out that Joey lied about the sex during the scene where they're both walking in the mist/fog and he seems so distant with her, that's the beginning of their downfall in my eyes. Pacey was clearly angry inside about everything, as we saw during his outburst at Joey in 'Promicide'

Yes, Pacey wouldn't so calm and i feel a little like Pacey-or well, Josh-didn't like saying those words, that it was fine, she told the truth now. It sounded painful for him to say it, like he wanted to go more into it and say how he really felt, but thought it would be better to let it slide, for some reason. Poor Pacey. And i think because they didn't really actually talk about it, the whole sex issue was just one of the things Pacey had kept inside until that fateful Prom evening.

[firewall]

Originally Posted by clarkson_fan (View Post) Where's the anti-DJ hate?

*raises hand* Don't worry, it's still here!

Whenever I want to rev myself up for some DJo hating, I just pop in the end of S3. Once Dawson lays down the ultimatum, my blood starts boiling. Run, Joey, run far away!!!

[Rachey1984]

Oh don't you worry, the DJ hate is still here

I was watching 'Four to Tango' a few days ago. I really dislike DJo in this episode. The way Dawson is so outraged at the thought of PJo having some sort of secret he's not part of. He's on a mission to find out what's going on, he hates being out of the loop.



Dawson was always so self righteous about Joey, he always felt like he was had the right to know what was going on in her life.

[clarkson_fan]

So true. And i don't like how it "just never occurred" to him that Joey would go her separate way too, like she'll always be there, waiting in the wings for Dawson, bowing to him and loving him like he's some god. Thats seriously how he acts when it comes to Joey and i hate how Joey allows him to think it. She just coddles him all that time. She lets him think that she will always be there when he's done doing whatever he wants to do, never allowing herself to really do what she wants to do, incase it hurts poor little Dawson. I mean, i don't think she ever really lets go of him until the series finale and while she does her own things as she gets older, she doesn't really choose her path in life, who she will be with and what she's going to do for the rest of her life until they both let each other go and Dawson has grown up enough to remember that he does not own Joey.

[fringe du jour]

The whole coddling of Dawson is never more obvious to me then in S4 when P/Jo return from their trip and Joey goes out of her way to sooth Dawson about her sex life. This theme carries through the entire season. Honestly, I'm surprised that Pacey didn't blow up earlier.

[Seersha]

Originally Posted by fringe du jour (View Post) The whole coddling of Dawson is never more obvious to me then in S4 when P/Jo return from their trip and Joey goes out of her way to sooth Dawson about her sex life. This theme carries through the entire season. Honestly, I'm surprised that Pacey didn't blow up earlier.

So very much agree with this. I feel like Pacey let this go far too easily when he realised Joey had initially lied to Dawson about having sex with Pacey. I'm sorry, but it was none of Dawson's business and Joey should have told him such. It's not all Dawson's fault - Joey holds some blame for that particular wrong for even thinking she had to give him an answer or that he had any right to know.

[Rachey1984]

Agree with the sex thing. Pacey is her boyfriend, of course she's going to have sex with him. Dawson was still hoping she would save herself for him, even though she was IN LOVE with somebody else. Joey annoys me more though for letting him own her and not having any consideration for Pacey's feelings. S4 is my worst DJ season, even worse than S3!