[L i N d $ @ y]

Originally Posted by Ceta_Cea (View Post) Question for the OP: If Liz real father had something to do with the Fulcrum, was he a part of the organization / did he work for it? Do we have any information whether the real father is dead or not?

These are good questions. We don't know if her real father is dead or alive but most of us are assuming that he is alive.

I came up with three different scenarios for the house fire: 1. Red burnt the house down as retaliation. 2. The house was already burning and Red went in & found Liz and got her out. 3. Red wasn't anywhere near the fire but somehow found Liz afterwards and thought it would be safer for her to stay with Sam.

I like the second one the most.

[Miranda]

Those are very good questions and scenario's Mona. I think your second scenario is most likely the closest to the truth.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

First of all I need to bring over the conversation in the flashback scenes so we have tons of stuff to speculate about.

The dialogue in the memory scenes via CC between the man, most likely Liz’s father, and the woman, who’s identity is not clear: First memory scene Man: Okay, stay here, sweetie. No matter what happens, you need to stay here and not come out until I come get you. Understand? Doctor: Are you with her? Liz: Yes. Woman: Where is she? Liz: Hey, what’s your bunny’s name? Woman: I’m not leaving without Masha. Man: Her name is Elizabeth. [Note: this line is not in the CC but I heared it several times now] Woman: Masha! Man: She’s not going back with you. Liz: I know you’re scared, but it’s okay. Lizzy? Can you hear me? [ Indistinct shouting ] Second memory scene Doctor: What’s happening, Elizabeth? Tell me. Liz: [ Slurring ] They’re shouting. Doctor: Who? Braxton: What are they saying? Liz: [Screaming] Where is she?! Woman: Listen, you’re in trouble. Man: Because of you! You told her. Woman: Yes, I did. I told her. […] [ Indistinct shouting ] Liz: What are they fighting about? Young Liz: It’s a secret. Liz: Who’s Masha? Young Liz: You are. Woman: Instead they framed Masha. Young Liz: Don’t go out there. You can’t go out there. Young Liz: [ Echoing ] Turn around, Lizzy! Go back! No! No! Don’t! Daddy said not to come out! Third memory scene Woman: They’ll kill you if you don’t give it back to them. Man: They’ll kill me if I do. Young Liz: They’re arguing. Liz: What are they arguing about? Woman: Did you really think I’d let it happen and I wouldn’t come for her? Man: Hey, you know what? The Fulcrum. [ Cellphone beeps ] Man: It’s the only thing keeping me alive.

X

And I now need to know who was tempering with her memories before. A new question again.

Besides, I did answer theses questions in the OP:

15. Where is the Fulcrum?
>> It's been in Lizzie's stuff bunny.

23. Why does Luther Braxton need Liz to find the Fulcrum?
>> Because he was ordered to find it for the clandestine organization so Red couldn't blackmail them anymore and it was hidden in her stuff bunny which only she could remember.

ETA - Mona, I added the two questions of yours as well

[Miranda]

Two questions answered and a lot of them gained!

Thanks for bringing that over Kris. Everyting is getting a little clearer for me, now that I can acutal read what they were saying during the flashbacks cause I didn't get all of it when I was watching the episode.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

You're welcome. It's been too much information to really get all of it by only watching the episode one time. I re-watched a lot of scenes five to ten times and it's still such an overload on information

[Ceta_Cea]

Wait they already used both names in her dreams? Masha and Elizabeth? If Masha is Liz how is it possible that a little child could be framed for something?

Being able to understand what was said in the dreams, really doesn't make me "understand" what was going on. Really not helpful at all.

We do know for sure that Red brought Liz to Sam, right? So maybe Sam was the one who made some psychologic temper with Liz memory. If Sam was supposed to hide & protrect her, then it as essential that they where able to blend into a community. A traumatized child would cause a lot of reaction from the people in the neighbourhood.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Yeah, they used both names already... I don't get how she could be framed either

And we don't even know if the female was her mother. I'm not convinced yet although I have no clue who else it could have been.

Here's a link to the audio file of those 'dreams'. Maybe you will hear some more. There's a lot more said that isn't been mentioned in that transcript above I'd say... https://soundcloud.com/tvgeek1/clean...bl-210/s-u0bnE

The whole conversation is confusing me even more since there is so much space for speculation.

And no, we don't know for sure that Red brought Liz to Sam. That's pure speculation as well. The only thing we know is that a friend of Sam brought Lizzie to him...

[One Thing Remains]

thanks for those transcripts Kris

[Lauren Helen Graham]

You're welcome So anybody any theories?

[L i N d $ @ y]

Thanks for bringing all those here, Kris.

Okay questions from Part 2:

Who erased Liz' memories if those weren't real?
Who put the fulcrum in Lizzie's toy bunny?
Who and what caused the fire in Liz' house?

[Lauren Helen Graham]

You're welcome... It's all so complicated, don't you think?

And I added the questions to the OP. Since the first one was added already I took the second and third over there

You know what's interesting to know as well? Who the person was that hit Lizzie in the closet.

[Miranda]

Great questions! Thanks for adding them to the OP.

Wasn't it her father that put her in the closet? It was a man so I just figured it was her father.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

It could be but we don't know, do we?

ETA - OMG, this is the song that was playing in the background of Lizzie's memories. It's a Russian lullaby and the lyrics are somehow hunting... A warning about her dad or mom or whoever or a premonition about Red or so. And great choice since Masha is a Russian name and then choosing a Russian lullaby for that scene :thud.

[JM249481]

Originally Posted by L i N d $ @ y (View Post) Thanks for bringing all those here, Kris. Okay questions from Part 2: Who erased Liz' memories if those weren't real? Who put the fulcrum in Lizzie's toy bunny? Who and what caused the fire in Liz' house?

I think Red was the one to erase Liz's memories, because no one else would have the motivation. The Alliance would want the memories recovered, so they could get the Fulcrum.

I believe Liz's mother or father put the Fulcrum in the bunny. Viewing the memory as it was, it would be Liz's father, but since the doctor said the roles might be reversed, it could have Liz's mother. The cleaned up audio makes it all but certain one parent stole both the Fulcrum and Liz and went into hiding. The other parent came after both Liz and the Fulcrum, insisting the person who stole the Fulcrum give it back and return Liz, because she was being threatened by the Alliance. The one of the parent's was spying on the other for the Alliance.

I think it was the Alliance members who caused the fire in the house. I believe Liz's mother was killed and Liz witnessed it. I think that was the memory Red was trying to steer her away from.

[One Thing Remains]

I think that if Red would have been the one to erase her memories he would have found out where the fulcrum was first and then erased her memory so only he knows where it is.