Mysterious Island Girl

I'm glad you brought that up.
Yes.

IceKat055

Oh I think she was definitely the Lady of the House.

MellyG14

didn't he introduce her as the lady of the house? i might have to rewatch, but i got the impression she was "With" him. It would have been nice if they dove into that a bit more, and when saying that abbie was related to HER, also made mention of abbie being related to HIM

Cristofle

That she's important to Ichabod certainly isn't the issue for me- she's his wife, obviously she's important TO him. It's not a plot line I'm invested in, but I certainly don't doubt it. I have no particular interest in any connection she has to Abbie- I'd rather see more of Abbie's history and development on her own, apart from even Ichabod's story let alone Katrina's. Her "importance" to ICHABOD isn't really my sticking point, it's the cryptic purgatory scenes that could be much better and more clearly written (well, and the chemistry issue I see, but there's nothing the writers can do about that).

On a happier note, Jenny and Irving continue to sparkle, and his daughter- who I still see as Rue, lol- is a delight. That child is stunningly gorgeous. I also liked Abbie's ancestor.

semmanclana

I'm happy they aren't letting the ONLINE fandom change their writing and give into "shippers" Shippers don't make the show. And like they said Ich/Kat is the story they are telling right now. You're shows a success then continue to write the way you are cause obviously it's working.

IceKat055

When online fandom leaks too much influence into the writers' room, bad things happen.

scorpio_chick

Shifting the focus from the apocalypse to I/K was not a wise idea, IMO. They are they weakest part of the show, I think so to bring that front and center is a mistake.

The chemistry between the two leads is the biggest draw of the show and that isn't just an opinion held by Ichabbie fangirls. So why shift from them fighting against the apocalypse to Ichabod's man pain over Katrina? It is baffling yet predictable, sadly.

ladyevenstar22

agree

IceKat055

Because it makes Ichabod a human, relatable character? Because it ups the stakes for him (and Abbie, by association)?

When Ichabod gets emotional, he loses focus and control. That's going to be an issue and could endanger him further in future episodes. And so far, we've seen him lose control over one thing: Katrina, and their son. (Which, I guess, would be two. )

Katrina is his wife. He loves her. He misses her. He was bowled over by the news that she's being held prisoner as a prize for the Horseman of Freaking Death/his ex-bff. He was bowled over by the news that he was a father. He's not a robot. I think his "man pain" was fairly understandable in both of the past two episodes.

I don't understand the need to trivialize Katrina's importance in this story just because she hasn't had X amount of screentime. She takes nothing away from Ichabod's modern-time relationship with Abbie, and she certainly doesn't threaten any imaginary romance between Ichabbie.

The chemistry between Ichabod and Abbie/Tom and Nicole, can not be disputed. Nor have I ever seen it disputed. Nor is Ichabbie the ONLY important relationship in this story. It may well be the MOST important. That's very different from ONLY, and it's very different from them being a romantic pairing, or having to prop each other up every single second of every single episode. Many episodes are going to focus more heavily on one or the other, and the secondary characters that affect them. For Abbie, that can be her relationship with Jenny; it can be backstory on her parents; more information on her relationship w/Corbin. For Ichabod, it's going to be Katrina.

And it just so happens that Katrina is at the heart of the apocalyptic story. Hell, she was involved in it before Ichabod even knew of it's existence. And we know nothing about their son yet. He may be a key, somewhere along the way. Pieces of a puzzle, all of them. And Katrina is a big one.

Mysterious Island Girl

I so agree with this.

The story is the main part of the show. I am happy with it and I think the writers are writing top notch stuff.

Cristofle

No, because if people aren't invested in Katrina or I/K, they AREN'T going to find this plot line relatable. Which is just as valid as any other opinion, and would naturally weaken these past two Katrina heavy episodes for those viewers (easily my least favorite of the season, personally). What I can logically tell myself about Ichabod's connection to his wife doesn't really help if I don't feel connected to their relationship myself, and I don't. Because I don't, I'm simply not interested in every other word out of his mouth being "Katrina". It's the least interesting plot on the whole show for me, and it makes Ichabod- who I normally love, doing everything from taunting a Headless Horseman to being confounded by a shower puff- less interesting by default, because I just don't care about what he's talking about.

scorpio_chick

Not sure what your point is here, considering that I've never argued that Ichabod's pain should not be addressed. I agree that we should see him struggling with all that he has lost and that Katrina makes him more human and relatable. That seems to be her main purpose, after all. I fail to see, however, how her presence ups the the stakes for Abbie. If you mean that it gives her more opportunity to play support to Ichabod then yes, I agree. But that isn't exactly something I want to see.

Most definitely...one, because I've yet to see anything to be threatened by and two, I, nor most Ichabbie shippers, have never suggested that there is any romance between Ichabbie. To imply such is disingenuous and frankly, comes off as condescending.

As for trivializing Katrina's importance, where, when? Lol. Saying that her love story with Ichabod should not be the central story or that it's weakest part of the show is not tantamount to trivializing. I have no choice but to accept that Ichabod loves her and it is painfully obvious that the writers want to make that a much bigger part of the story. To do so, IMO, is a mistake. That is my point, not that Katrina should have no role in the story.

There have been one, maybe two Abbie-centric episodes and even then, we were getting flashbacks of Ichabod in battle and with Katrina. The last 3 or 4 episodes have leaned heavily towards Ichabod with Abbie merely supporting him and/or talking about how important he is to her. Where is Abbie's POV *outside* of anything Ichabod related? That is what's missing and that is what I object to.

That's too bad because, as I said, the plot with Katrina is the weakest part of the show, IMO. The writers put little effort into making me care for her early on and then suddenly, she is the "prize," the center of a triangle and the main motivator for the HH? Lame.

london grammar

I don't think you should let fans dictate story either, but if the ratings keep dropping, well, I think things do have to change.

Cristofle, I agree with what you're saying.

IceKat055

You're right, it is, absolutely valid. It's also personal to each individual viewers' interpretation, which has nothing to do with writer intent. And I believe their intent is for a huge part of Ichabod's motivation to be his love for his wife and his desire to be reunited with her. If that "weakens" the story for some fans, then there's not much the writers can do about that. As long as they stick to their game-plan and don't start trying to cater to every single fan's every single desire, then personally I think they'll do just fine.


You asked "So why shift from them fighting against the apocalypse to Ichabod's man pain over Katrina?" My response/point is that it makes Ichabod's anguish over his current situation more human, more emotional, more relatable. To some, at least.

It also makes his emotional chaos relevant to their task(s) at hand. His pain made him reckless. It could have been catastrophic, had he been injured or killed. That's something that's going to have to be addressed, if he and Abbie are going to be successful in their fight.


We obviously frequent very different areas of the internet outside FanForum. Because yes, most definitely, there are plenty of folks out there who are absolutely convinced that they've already fallen for each other on a romantic level. The latest "proof" is that when Abbie told him he should embrace what's in front of him, she was suggesting he embrace her.

I wasn't intending to condescend. It's just a reality of what I've seen in some corners of this fandom.


Saying that their love story shouldn't be central is trivializing Katrina, IMO. Because her main purpose in this story is her relationship with Ichabod. A central part of his character is their love, and his driving force. She's the love of his life, she's trapped, he wants to save her, and it looks like he may just need her on several different levels at this point. Her coven/power may have some influence in the war. Her personal connection to Abrahead may have some importance. Her son with Ichabod may have a part to play (presuming he survived.) In addition to wanting to avert the apocalypse and save mankind, Ichabod should worry about saving his wife. Otherwise, what are the writers saying about him? That he can go from his beautiful monologue describing their love, his conviction of simply knowing she was the one the first time he saw her, to "eh, sorry babe, got a Horseman to stop, you just cool your heels there for another century, 'k?" That would make him seem very changeable to me. His love for Katrina has been at the heart of his character from the first episode of this series. Just because it wasn't on display enough to please every single fan on the internet is irrelevant.


I assume this is because Ichabod is the First Witness, and it's his story that opened this story and set all the current threads we're following in motion. His love for Katrina and betrayal of Abraham created the Horseman of Death, making it a personal thing on a whole new level. His blood tie to the Horseman, Katrina's coven/spell preserving him through the centuries, awakening at the same moment that Moloch called the Horseman forward, finding Abbie and alerting her to her own destiny as a Witness, his first-hand knowledge of the past and the secrets of the Masons/Patriots - - it's all centered around Ichabod.

They may well intend to bring Abbie's POV/backstory more into focus in future episodes, but honestly, as the Second Witness, I'm not particularly expecting it. At least not overly, or in comparison to Ichabod's POV/backstory. Because Ichabod has been first billed from the get-go, and they may or may not switch that up. Ichabbie are equals in their importance compared to other characters; between the two of them, IMO, Ichabod is more key. He was presumably given the title of "First Witness" for a reason.

scorpio_chick

A shift in story was necessary in order to accomplish that? I certainly don't think so. The writers could have very well chosen to explore Ichabod's struggles without shifting the focus of the story. They had no problem doing that during the Abbie-centric episodes. Fact is, they wanted a more Ichabod/Katrina heavy plot, for whatever reason and I think most (onliners, anyway) can agree that it hasn't exactly produced the best episodes of the series thus far.

Yes, some corners of the fandom, which is not equal to most, nor did I even imply in my original statement that there was a romantic Ichabbie, so I'm not sure why we're even debating that?

I will say, however, that if some read Abbie's statement as her falling for Ichabod then I think that's perfectly valid interpretation. I will reiterate that most of the Ichabbie shippers I see on twitter and tumblr seem to recognize that I/A are not in a romantic relationship, even if they squee over things that can be interpreted as romantic. And to be clear, I think Ichabbie have had romantic moments, which is not the same as saying they have fallen for each other.

I'm sorry but I'm not following your logic. Regardless of how Ichabod and Katrina feel about each other, their love story was never THE central plot of the series and that is essentially what the writers have turned into these last few episodes. My saying that this shift was a mistake is hardly tantamount to trivializing. I/K started out as a subplot and it should have remained so. If one wants to interpret that as trivializing, then so be it.

As for your last point, the show is about two witnesses coming together to prevent the apocalypse, NOT Ichabod's grand love for Katrina with Abbie playing sidekick. If I am to believe that Ichabod's POV and his love for Katrina takes precedence then perhaps the powers that be should have paired Tom and Katia together to do all the promotion for the show?

Tom and Nicole were presented as co-leads, they've done all the promotion for the show, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect balance in the storytelling. Though it's certainly possible that tptb presented Nicole/Abbie as an equal to bait certain fans into a show about "Ichabod and his sidekick" and if that is the case, then they seriously underestimate the intelligence of said fans.

And no I can't say I buy the idea that the difference between First/Second Witness holds that much importance. But if the writers think so and they continue to "stick to the game plan" then I'm afraid a season 2 is all this show will get.