Rhonwen

TFTNT


what are we discussing??

Grace52373

Sorry, I might have written that wrong in my struggle to prove my point, which was that Gold never gave up on her. I never thought he loved Lacey, I just think that he looked at Lacey and could still see Belle. Lacey was a concept, a warped version of Belle based on Regina's warped view of the people in the Enchanted Forest. Lacey had none of Belle's compassion, wit, or bravery. She was content living in a small town, getting drunk, dressing like a pro, and having meaningless one night stands with people. Lacey would never have been brave enough to love anyone including a beast. Lacey wasn't as optimistic as Belle, or searched for something deeper. She was all surface and practicality. She took people for how they presented themselves. She accepted life as it came and was determined to have fun. Gold saw through that false persona, and saw his Belle waiting for him to free her. They said watch how he helps her get her memory back, and I think they meant the lengths he went to in order to bring Belle back. Unfortunately, time ran out, and he didn't have enough time to make Lacey fall for him, and he didn't want Belle to be brought back in order to die, so his accepting help unlike in the past, first from Charming, than Grumpy, and lastly the Blue Fairy showed not only has he changed, but he is no longer a coward if he ever was one. he may not have brewed the potion, but he gave it to her, so in a way, he did return her memories using chip, whom he saved. After Belle broke Chip, we all saw Rum leaving the room defeated knowing that magic wasn't going to come through for him. Despite thinking Belle was lost to him forever, he still saved that cup, his hope. Also, when he returned, he tried to bring his Belle back. Regina made it tough on him, like Regina did numerous times to Charming and Snow, but he perservered and tried non-magical ways to bring Belle back, and asked for help, two things he normally doesn't do. He also trusted the Blue Fairy, whom he blames for taking his son away from him, and he hoped that Belle would want to spend her last moments with him as Belle instead of as Lacey. In a round about way, they did tell us that the story was in how he brought her back. His attempts followed by his faith in true love and in others around him. That is what I meant.

Also, I agree that another point to Lacey was to show how much Gold needs Belle's influence in his life. In the end, he needed Belle, not Lacey. He ran out of time to make Lacey fall in love with him, so true love's kiss could work, but he tried at least.

Betsybelle

Ok, thanks for explaining. Lacey was shallow and materialistic. She wasn't bad, but she wasn't Belle - and Belle is who Gold loved, for a million reasons. She said things at times that maybe she wasn't aware were not so nice things to say, like "maybe your caring about the wrong people" when he mentioned that magic tended to push away people he loved.......or when she said "I thought you were a man who didn't let anyone/anything stand in your way". She cared for him in some way, but she was so attracted to his power, his ability to snap and make a neckace out of thin air, his ability to make her forever young........and Gold knew that (and didn't appreciate it, either, but he had to act it).

I don't think TLK would have worked anyway even if Lacey did truly love him because, as Adam said, it was more complicated than that. Gold didn't love Lacey, so therefore the kiss couldn't work.

I LOVED how Gold either went back for the cup or retrieved it magically from the trash. Even broken, the cup still meant something to him; the cup still represented Belle and their relationship. What's even better is that he didn't fix it magically then.......as long as Belle was not Belle, then she was broken, he was broken and they were broken. So, the cup must remain broken

AngieBelle

You know, I was just thinking...by having Belle stay behind, in a way, he is *giving* her the chance to be the hero- not taking it away! He is handing her the town and giving her a task. In essence, he is putting her in a potential leadership position. He is not expecting her to just sit there and brood over him.

Oh- just for fun....a rough sketch I drew of when Belle gets her memories back:

baelfire24

Source: Smash and Grab

Betsybelle

That's not why he's doing it, though.........he's doing it just to "protect" her. That's all Adam and Eddy keep saying, that he's doing it to "protect" her, sigh. I don't think he had any clue about what Belle would do once she cast the spell, certainly not that she was going to lead the town......This all happened rather all of a sudden, too sudden for me to believe he cared at all about Belle saving the town or being a hero. I really think he just conjured up some cloaking spell so that in a way she'd be guilted into staying in SB; he knows she wouldn't leave SB unprotected.

He loves Belle, but it's starting to be a choking love. He doesn't know about her FTL adventures and I was completely fine with his being worried about her in the Outsider argument, but after all of that, after what she went through for him, you'd have thought that he would have learned. If he understands her need to be a hero, to accomplish things, then he has an odd way of showing it. Belle doesn't want to live a safe, boring life; she wants to be brave, be a hero .......she wanted to help and he didn't let her. He should not get to make that decision for her.

I sort of hope Belle starts to resent being treated as if she has no right to make decisions that affect her life because I know I would

I would not have brought this up again, by the way, for those who are going to think I'm repeating myself - but I had to respond. I've always been fine being in the minority, lol.

AngieBelle

Whether or not it was a conscious decision, his leaving her in SB *does* give her that chance to be a leader.

Belle always speaks up when she feels she is not in control of her life. She started to when he first told her that she needed to stay. She must have seen his point after he explained the situation to her or otherwise she would have fought it. She understood that the town needed protection.

baelfire24

Source: if true love was easy, we'd all have it

Betsybelle

It's an important point for me, though, that he didn't even think of Belle being a leader in SB because it emphasizes that that was not the primary reason for leaving her behind.

Simply, Gold should have laid all the cards on the table; he should have said he wanted to protect her.......Then, he should have allowed Belle to make that decision. That's my 1st big problem with the whole thing. Of course she would protect the town, which is why he used that reason to get her to stay. How long does it take to cast the spell? Not long. Of course there is more to it than that; Belle has people to take care of and a town to rebuild, but that was not at all on Gold's mind, so even though Belle will end up having a real job to do, it's moot in my mind because that didn't come into play with him.

He loves her, I'm not saying he doesn't; he loves her so much that it hurts - and he can't express it in words. He was so upset that after saying he had to honor Bae, he couldn't speak for fear of breaking down. LOL I'm saying this just so everyone knows that even though I'm annoyed with Gold, it doesn't change how I feel about their love.,

I agree with the bold, of course, but she was not in full possession of the facts. Gold could easily have cast the spell himself once they were on the ship; Belle is smart enough to know that. I suspect she didn't want to argue with him because he was already in a fragile state.

Gold just wants Belle to live a safe and easy life - NOT what she wants. That's my 2nd big issue......Charming doesn't inhibit Snow in this way; why can't Gold do the same? This is going to constantly be a problem for Rumbelle for Gold will always want to be completely overprotective - and Belle is going to chafe at that. She won't stand for this.....nor should she. It's a shame that he refuses to think of them as a team, that he wants to do everything by himself.

baelfire24

Source: http://darkshores-deactivated2013042...st/44850414175

AngieBelle

But we *don't* know that Gold could easily cast the spell from the ship...it might be more complicated than that.

I didn't mean giving her a chance to lead was the main reason- you are correct about that. It was just an observation on my part- it might not have even crossed his mind. Protection was the main reason. The other was that he doesn't want her to see him die nor does he want her to be a distraction to him. I believe A&E said this in the official podcast.

Of course he wants to keep her safe...he was overprotective with Bae too, remember? It's his nature. He doesn't usually do what we think he should do. He's a very flawed man.

baelfire24

“… and I’m glad”

Source: aut caesar et nihil

Jan_RCFan

Hmmm... I think the game-changer Bobby was talking about was that he going to save Henry even though he knew that Henry would be his undoing - he said it would happen at the very end and it would change his relationship with Bae forever. They cut him off when he was talking about this during the Palyefest panel, but he did say that it would change his relationship with Bae forever during one of the interviews that took place on his way in or out of the panel. I don't think the Whale incident changed his relationship since it just reinforced Bae's bad opinion of his father. Now I'm curious as to which incident was the game-changer Bobby was talking about since we obviously have 2 different opinions here.

A&E said no more beans... that doesn't mean they can't grow more. I bet that's what will happen - lol! As far as where any bean will lead is a big plot hole in my opinion... it seems as though you don't know ahead of time where it will lead you... that's why Gold had to get involved to track Henry. He needed to use his blood on the globe to locate Henry... evidently it's the same way he tracked down Bae... and yes, they were able to identify NL on the globe - lol!

I would love to see Belle use the newly-grown beans to open a portal to FTL and save Bae. She has to be involved in saving him somehow. That would allow her to be a hero and to have an adventure.

Belleislove

I have no problem with Gold "protecting" Belle. That's his nature. He is overprotective of the few people he loves, Bae and Belle. He's also the one who got her the job at the library, and he was fascinated by her love of adventure back in FTL. So it's not like he is trying to keep her down.

But he also believes he's going to die and she would do what? Be stuck in a place she could conceivably never leave, with the lost boys, Hook and the Charmings? He wouldn't want that for her.

I actually find his over protectiveness endearing. It shows how much he loves her. Ironically, I have a feeling it's going to backfire because she'll either be in danger in SB or she'll come to find him, lol. But I would be more dissatisfied if he were willingly putting her in danger by taking her along and trapping her in NL.

Plus, it'll give Gold just another chance to be amazed at her. Gold/Rumple in so many ways is an old fashioned man. He grew up in a different time and place. I think his natural instinct is to protect the woman he loves. There's a source of good conflict between them because Belle wants to be treated equally and taken seriously as someone who can protect herself. As conflicts go, that's a pretty good one for them.

I think the characters are all on a growth journey here, so Gold is by no means perfect or close to it obviously. He's going to do things where we want to slap him, LOL. I think he will continually be amazed at the lengths Belle will go to for him but he will always protect her. That's just inherent in his personality. He just keeps being stunned by her loyalty to him and her bravery. I think it's so part of him to feel less than a man that he still, after all this time, doesn't understand why she loves him.

But he also continually tries to give her her freedom. He does appreciate all her wonderful qualities, imo. But he still feels he's the DO and not worthy of her. But his protectiveness is one of the things I adore about him.
Yes, I hope and think that may be what happens.

Grace52373

I think Belle will somehow find Bae, or he will come back to Storybrooke, and they will try to find the others! I also think that if Pan scares Hook and the Dark One, he is a formidible foe, and maybe that is why he needed to protect Belle, since other than her brains and bravery, she has no magic to protect her. If Rum is focused on her, he won't be focused on fighting Pan. I and Betsy don't agree with it, but I understand why he did it! I think he knew that they were going to go to NL, or at least had an inkling that Pan was behind the kidnapping.