Beccaa

Hello everyone

I find it really interesting that you should bring this up and I love all your points. I agree that the show does foreshadow. I don't know if i'm being too analytical here but I was watching 2x02 last night and I thought the scene where C/L are climbing up the stairs towards Vanozza very telling. The way they are portrayed in darkness/Cesare seems protective with his arm behind Lucrezia while she holds the baby. You could say that they look like a family unit. This got me thinking about what everyone's been discussing with Juan and Lucrezia becoming pregnant with C's child. I'm not saying that this will happen but just basing it on what everyone's been saying. Also, I picked up on this even though at the time it was directed at Paolo.

Vanozza: A love that would displease your father.
Lucrezia: Is there such a thing?
Vanozza: No. Your father is the Pope of love.

I don't know but with the way C/L are presented in this scene and with those lines, I thought about s3 and if/when Rodrigo finds out about C/L he won't be pleased?

Please feel free to butcher this theory because I'm probably thinking waaaay too much into this.

Here's a screencap of the scene i'm talking about:

NYPoster

I like that theory Becca, actually I'll probably rewatch 2x02 just for that scene

I don't know if they'll have Rodrigo find out about them though. I think he would be too oblivious but then again Cesare told him about killing Juan and I didn't think they would go there either.

If anyone finds out I see it as Vanozza only because she probably knows her kids the best whereas Rodrigo is kinda blind when it comes to them. If she does find out I see her confronting Cesare as the instigator instead of Lucrezia.

sanmarinogirl

Well, I think the only way for Rodrigo to find out is to walk on them. And even then he can always brush it off.
Like "Cesare, I wanted to speak with you about serious matter! Oh, nevermind. I'll just return when you and Lucrezia are done with this naked wrestling of yours. Have fun."

This man is in serious denial about his own children.

And I think it would be hillarious, if Vanozza or anyone for that matter blamed Cesare. I personally thought it would be Cesare too.

cheekymonkey503

I think everyone thought it would be Cesare tbh because he always seemed to instigate everything.
That is kind of why I want the slap/kiss scene to be their first kiss, because then in the beginning Cesare started it. But nobody seems to think this is possible,

Line Day

Yes the oracle of St. Juan is very intriguing because when Juan said these words within them was a very large order, is a resource for writers as a metaphor, often used messages hidden always encrypted in parables from the Old Testament and New sometimes. The mark of Cain is the Book of Genesis 4.17 "and God said" where is your brother "Cain said," Is that I am my brother's keeper? "This was a clear message hidden in the show. Was the Cesare warning that he would kill John, as Cain killed Abel. was fulfilled so many of us believe in the oracle of John like all Greek and Roman sibyls took drugs, and it was only when he said, and we the public display. Their trance with divinity is increased by the fact that he died shortly after. he spoke of the coming of a demon, Rodrigo is the second son of Lucrezia.'s paternity of this child will bring ruin family as the oracle and announce the end of their power, their loss gradually. Aragon's house shall withdraw his support and his enemies will increase, and the writers were able to use John to announce this Apocalypse San Juan Borgia because another who wrote the "Book of Revelation" in the New Testament. all makes sense.

Katja82

Parallels are always interesting, but I wouldn't go too far in the religious direction. Juan was far from a saint and if they will bring baby Rodrigo into the show I highly doubt he will be portrayed as a demon. And the baby won't certainly be the downfall of the Borgias.
Just my opinion.

Line Day

The oracle St: Juan may be showing us the way, Juan was the oracle of the family and even once compared to Jesus Christ with the Pope walking between the poor people in Rome. The reference here was to the New Testament, but the important thing here is that perhaps his oracle is a way forward in the plot, like the song of the last promo "a time to love, a time for forgiveness" are quotations from the "Book of Ecclesiastes" and perhaps another message is encrypted on the timeline: the first will be the revenge of Cesare against theRodrigo´s poisoners, then the issue of Giovanni and after the meeting and of Cesare and Lucrezia reconciliation . "The Book of Ecclesiastes" was written by King Solomon, and these Bible verses are not placed at random I think. The demon fruit of the forbbiden love of C&L will mark the apocalypse of the Borgias and their fall, with the death of Alfonso and a lot of wars for the dominion of the Romagna: "the world"what "will be devoured" by the demon is the power of the Family in the Church, and is like a timeline specific. Everything goes hand in hand. All this little details may be part of a whole.

Line Day

This is a metaphor, can not be interpreted as literal. How will Lucrezia and Cesare have a demon?
We must interpret the metaphor. The child will not destroy anything, obviously. The child signifies the beginning of the loss of power in the family. The family will begin to lose power as the oracle of Juan when the child is born so, and not at once, but gradually.
The world devoured is the power of the Borgias and their loss means the child. Everything that happens on the show every word, every image means something and is there for a reason. As Jesus said, "Whoever has ears ought to hear."

Sparklyhairnet

I would love it if Rodrigo did find out--I feel like it would be the final bit of his sanity being knocked to pieces, a real Shakespearean tragedy. He's always been blind to his children's faults--yet even after he forgives Cesare, his children--including his pure daughter--are "monsters".

But I totally see Vanozza figuring it out because she--like Juan AND Giulia, I think--has always seen the family for what it is.

Katja82

Well, we still don't know if there actually will be a child. All just speculation.

@sparkly: I agree, if someone finds out it will be Vanozza.

cheekymonkey503

True Katja we just want it to be so but so far we have seen no sign of a preggo Lucrezia and I'm not sure that they would waste to much time on that if it was Alfonso's kid supossedly.

Sparklyhairnet

I wouldn't even be shocked if Vanozza didn't have to catch them together to figure it out. I can see her side-eyeing their public interactions (too much eye contact, a lingering touch here or there) so much, and tbh I'd be disappointed if they didn't at least play with that. Vanozza's too smart and insightful to not notice something.

I think the main possibility of a child lies in the second half of the season. And if it worked out that way--which I'm not saying it will, it's totally up in the air imo--I feel like a pregnancy would be the catalyst for Alfonso's death.

cheekymonkey503

Ohh I didn't see it as a catalyst for Alfonso's death but yes that does make since cause Ces was always sort of protective of Gio imagine if he thought the child was his.

DGSAFDMD

My lovers I am sorry I've been absent, I am actually working today, hoping I'll be free soon to join the conversation! <3

cheekymonkey503

Looking forward to it and don't be to distacted by all of us!!Train Train Train that new employee, we'll see you soon.