kiss the wind

I'm just dropping in to say hi and that I miss you all.

I haven't been paying much attention to the show since the middle of 4B (although I did, of course, catch 419). But I haven't watched any of s5 (p much only seen Paily stuff in gifs). It's unfortunate, but not surprising, that they are writing Paige off the show. They really have no reason too except for ~drama~, but it's not like they were fully utilizing Lindsey anyway. MK and co. will never give Emily and any gf she has as much love as they will for the straight ships (which is ironic considering MK and some of the other writers are part of the LGBT community). Also wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the fact that all of the other ships are white couples (bc lbr, Troian, although biracial, passes for white and Spencer is identified as white) while Shay/Emily is the only one who doesn't identify as white. I had obviously considered the straight v. lesbian couple angle, but hadn't really given much thought to the racial issue (although maybe that's bc Lindsey/Paige is white and it was more of an obvious issue with Maya).

IDK, I'm just so done with this show - not only bc of their obvious bias against Emily ever being happy, but also with the fact that TPTB refuse to acknowledge how terrible Ezria is, how shoddy the writing and plotlines are and have been for a long time, their refusal to take criticism, and their backpeddling re: Ezra as A, Toby as A, etc.

I might tune in for the series finale just to see how it ends (or watch after it airs), but other than that I'll just kind of see through twitter, tumblr, etc on what's happening.

I will always love Paily and be thankful that I got to experience this ship with you all, but it sucks that it has to end like this.

I'll try to pop in from time to time to say high (and hey, if they prove me wrong and they bring Paige back in the future, then maybe I'll at least watch through gifs).

jjay10627

Yeah, it's all of this stuff that makes it hard for me to let go completely. The writers are never usually this quiet about one particular person and I would not expect Paige to be that person. Like I said before though I think most of that comes down to them not wanting to give away whatever is being thrown at us in 514. They can't tell us anything at this point in terms of where they are at or if she'll be in other episodes because a yes or no will give it all away.

Shay's comments before the xmas episode are harder to believe for me than when she said she hoped they last forever. Only because she said the other stuff like days before the xmas episode aired. The other was back when they were filming like 521 or 522. It just still seems like an odd comment if Paige is already gone and she knows she won't be back. There's no hoping for them to LAST if they've already broken up, you know? I'm sure that I am reading far into this and believe me I have absolutely no expectations for 514. Even with JD as the writer, I'm glad it's him over anyone else but given how little we got from him in not only 511 but 414 (although I feel like the latter was more about starting to put distance between them for Alison's return), it just seems like a waste. If it is goodbye in 514 I just pray that we get more than one minute of screen time. Like everyone else my future with this show will be determined by 514. Without Paily to look forward to it's just not worth the headache anymore.

Plus there is a very tiny and sad part of me that is hoping JD's release of that newest Paily fic was a secret note for us to hang tight. Didn't he release the last book right before season 5 started? It wasn't word for word or nothing but it ended up foreshadowing quite a bit.

It's so obvious the writers are clawing for storylines at this point. This season should have been the last one. They didn't need to have a time jump and all this garbage, they could have just ended it while there was still some dignity left. I didn't start the show off with everyone else but seasons 1-3a are my favorites. And I did actually enjoy 5a quite a bit. Season 4 was the biggest disaster of any show I've watched. It was just so damn bad.

JustAFriend

Hi nous protégeons! It's so sad to see yet another former fan drop in to say hello and goodbye.

lol yes, I've reached that stage myself. Though I'm sure JD will destroy us again in 514 and I won't be able to function properly for another week (month?).

If nothing else, the letter is acting as a bit of a needed therapy session for myself, so even if I never actually send it (or if I do, at least a heavily edited version) I think it has helped me work through my feelings. I know this is a ridiculous teen drama, but for some reason Paily's story deeply affected me, and whatever happens going forward, I'd just like to thank the man for giving so much to these characters and in turn so much to me.

This show has occupied so much of my time over the last year I find it hard to imagine just giving it up cold turkey. I'll definitely be watching it in a different way, that's for sure. When they announced 2 more seasons I know my reaction was a groan rather than excitement.

Seems like that bomb was already dropped in the last episode. What else are they hiding? They could at least have said "we don't want to spoil the story". Any response would have been appreciated, but answering every other ship related question and simply ignoring Paily fans who have been begging for months is a really pissy (non)response as far as I'm concerned.

(Peppermint, I sent you a private message about something, just in case you didn't see the notification. )

kiss the wind

I'm still lurking (albeit not posting much just because it's exhausting to think about PLL now lol). It's always good to read everyone else's insights, but it's hard to talk from my POV when I haven't been watching.

I think one of the biggest issues is that MK and Co decided to draw this thing out for two more seasons, when they could have been wrapping stuff up by now. So therefore, they think "oh, we need couples drama" when there is so much more mystery drama they could be doing now if the show was actually close to ending.

Peppermint_P4tti

BEWARE: Random Rambling Below (I really need to look at my life choices at the moment).

Hi nous, I do think the race aspect is a little problematic, but more that they kill off the side characters (Maya, Shana & Nate for example) you're never going to get one of the main characters dying, I don't think & of course, apart from Emily they're all white (Mind you, do we consider Ali as a main character now? I could actually see her dying tbh).

Funny though, you think it's going away & then I find I still can't not think about this stupid show & this ****ing, horrible throwaway storyline Urgh.

I was wondering why Paige is such a polarising character - seems the people who connect with her really connect with her, but she also seems to inspire some really violent negative reactions. I'm sure part of it can be explained as Emison shippers who see her as a barrier to their ship, plus then you've got the way she was introduced with the head-dunk etc. but I wonder if partly it's to do with how Lindsay plays her (especially at the beginning) with such intensity. That's precisely the reason why she resonates so deeply with me. I love that intensity & how she wears her heart so openly. She was vulnerable & angry & all-over-the-place - a teenager with a (what she thought) shameful secret) & I so remember being her. & I wonder if that's what others don't like about her that she's not sophisticated or cool, that she's all those things you want to cover up but she don't quite manage to. & I think Lindsay really captures that, sometimes she almost does seem to be in a different show cause the others are so blasé about what's happening. Anyway. I've never seen her in anything else, is she always like this? Is it just her acting style.

Ha, remember how we were so keen for 513 we were wishing the time away, now I don't know if I want 514 to ever come, or if I just want to get it over & done with. I wonder what we will get? A Caleb goodbye, or a passing mention? (I really hate to say which one I expect, but I think you all know). & the problem is, it just links in with what you said JAF, that not to have got any response feels like a huge FU. & I know it's whining again, but it does seem like as soon as E/A shippers start to moan they get a bone thrown (even just a stupid "wait for it" would make me feel that we were actually in the same ****ing fandom!!)

Anyway. Looks like I need to go write that letter for real if it is therapeutic. I'm willing to try anything tbh.

jjay10627

I don't really think that I even care to hear anything from the writers at this point. It's not like we will get a real answer anyways considering how close 514 is. I don't want to hear any lame never say never crap anyways. It will only make me more angry because that's such a cop out answer to give. And I do realize that we already got the bomb dropped on us but that doesn't mean they are going to give away what 514 entails for Paily. Again if they answer about further episodes that seems to give it away that they aren't breaking up more than likely, at least IMO. So to me it just seems not answering means not giving it away. Of course being noticed instead of ignored would feel a lot better. But Like that one lady said "I'm not allowed to say!" when she was asked if Paige was in anything after 514 so clearly it's been discussed amongst everyone to keep Paily quiet for whatever reason. I just now remembered that. Plus it's months later and it's PLL so honestly anything could happen I feel like, good or bad.

The saddest part of all of this is how excited we were like 10 days ago. We got that first sneak peek of them signing and then the dancing pics. It's amazing how duped this show can make you feel after just one episode.

JustAFriend

Random ramble away I always say lol

It's interesting isn't it? I get not liking a character, hell I'm not a particular fan of everyone on this show, but there is a level of vitriol aimed at Paige that is totally unwarranted. Lets face it, not everyone will be able to connect with her journey, and in fact a good many people seem to be completely oblivious to her 5 seasons of character development. Season 1 Paige is all they see and all she'll ever be. Even Lindsey said it "I was mean for like an episode, I'm still making up for it".

For some it's purely superficial. Paige is not "pretty enough for Emily". For some they just want Emily with someone else and Paige is in the way. I've come to see that certain fans see the story they want in a scene rather than what is actually playing out on screen. There's interpreting things in different ways, but then there's just blindness to what is actually happening. I didn't realise how much of that went on until recently. For some, the show in their head is completely different to what has been written.

It's hard to view Paige through the eyes of a casual fan who indeed, may not remember each and every detail of a characters journey through the seasons. To us, they are all milestone moments, to others, not worth remembering.

You're right jjay. I know. I guess I just feel like...I don't even know what I want anymore. Some acknowledgement of our existence? Some sensitivity to how we're all feeling right now? LOL Wouldn't it be hilarious if we're assuming the worst and it goes the opposite way?
Sigh....

We were so excited. I believe I actually said, "I couldn't possibly be disappointed"...HAHAHAHAHA...oh wow. I need to avoid making such grand proclamations.

jjay10627

No. I totally get it. And I would love some acknowledgement as well, like it would be really nice. I just feel like it's a waste to expect it. You know the funny this is though, we all could be very wrong about this. I don't know what 514 is bringing but for all we know in the months that have passed anything could have happened. We all know how Paily's issues always get handled off screen, right? And MK did say "it be interesting to see how fans react to their journey." (Or something along those lines) Well....do you even have to wonder?! Of course we're not going to be happy you're throwing our girls under the bus after they just admitted how much in love they still were!

Like, come on, what did she expect? For us to be happy or okay with this? So that's another thing that just makes none of this add up. It all just seems far to fishy to me. Something HAS to be up. Or not and again...we just have to deal somehow.

I have never understood for one single moment why Paige has been so hated. I think more than anything it's because Emily can't let Paige go and therefore she 'gets in the way' of other ships. Well, there's a reason that Paige sticks around and that's because EMILY LOVES HER! How is that not obvious at this point? Plus it's more than obvious that Paige loves Emily more than any person ever, including herself. That's the best thing about Paige. How even in moments where Emily was at her worst Paige still only saw the good in her. She knows that Emily is worth everything. Like even going back to 512 and Emily wanted to talk but Paige was like, 'No, it's okay. We're good." Even when Emily broke her heart she still didn't lose any love for her or leave her in the dark. She didn't go after Alison when she had plenty reason to. Her growth has been so amazing.

People want to blame her and hate her for writing that letter but if it had been Alison or one of the boys that wrote it they would have been PRAISED for life. She risked everything with that letter and lost it all just for the sake of possibly keeping Emily safe. But Paige will always be the bad guy. I don't think that thought will ever change.
I even remember a long time ago I saw people had been talking about how Paige "forced" Emily into saying yes to going to stanford with her and I was completely blown away. I mean, really? In what universe did Paige force her to say "I want to be you." And then later on say "I want to be you, only you. Starting a real life."

Right, so forced. Emily doesn't love Paige in the slightest.

That's what so many people seem to forget about and the huge problem with the fandoms on this show. They're so hard about getting what they think is owed to them, or that it's their turn to have something, that they forget about the actual story. YES, Alison was Emily's first love or crush or whatever you want to call it and that does mean something in some capacity, but Emily wanted a life with Paige. She saw that as a part of her future. Her and Paige safe somewhere together. And I think that's something she still wants but just doesn't know how to have it and maybe that's something that comes up in 5B. Maybe that can't happen now, maybe it still can but the point is that people can make up all the stories and scenarios they want but it's very obvious that Emily loves Paige very much and THAT is worth remembering, no matter who or what you ship.

And about the christmas episode. It just, it was never a thought in my mind that this would happen. MK did a good job with the shock factor, for sure, just not the actual storytelling part.

Peppermint_P4tti

Hey hey, how we doing? Has it only been a week? (My timeline is completely ****ed). I wondered if withdrawing from twitter & this board would help - but, just in case you're about to try the same thing, let me tell you, it really doesn't. I think my ranting & howling is actually really cathartic, so I'm afraid you're going to have to put up with it.

The following is ridiculous rambling on, but it helps to talk it out:

You know, I actually woke up this morning practically in tears cause I woke up thinking about the damn storyline. (I know there are so many more important things, but I really can't cope with the magnitude of those & I think Paige & Em were kind of my comfort blanket when things got rough).

So, re: the dislike of Paige, I kind of forgot that she was hated by Maya fans too cause of the way she appeared. I find it completely mind-blowing when haters talk about Paige forcing Emily to agree to go to Stanford with her, what so, asking someone to do something now constitutes forcing them? I really didn't realise.

A lot of people seem to have a really low opinion of Em, like she's not capable of making up her own mind. Or, the other one I saw was how Paige & Em don't actually love one another, they're just using one another. It's just mind-blowing. Then there was the whole Paige "stalking" Emily in the beginning if 5a cause she was in the locker room, erm correct me if I'm wrong, but Paige is supposed to be there. Em's the one invading that space. Plus, to my mind, you want to talk stalking? Try looking at the person who fakes their own death then randomly followed her friends around watching as they get murdered & kidnapped etc etc. I hate the ****ing lunatics in this ****ty fandom. & you know, if we really come down to it, I think that's part of why I feel so hurt, & why this whole situation is so horrible & upsetting & it's because it makes those morons think they're right (even though it's illogical & at odds with what's on screen) because they make up their own ****ing story anyway & they can shout that they've won. I hate it. (This storyline has made me as bitter & childish as them, sigh ...)

I'm kind of sad too that I don't think I'll be able to watch the rest of the show. I love the four girls & their friendship. But so much of the show is now about fan-servicing the relationships (except for one, ahem) I just find it really hard to get behind their lack of respect for Em's relationships. It's all very well claiming half of Rosewood as gay, but let's see some interactions. Let's have her LI treated with some respect. Even if she does end up with Ali (ugh) I still don't believe we'll see anything even approaching equality with how their relationship is treated. Plus, I do worry they're going to redeem Ali & you know what? I like her as a villain. It's interesting I want to know what her motives are. What I don't want to see are the motives of some random character who was introduced as an afterthought.

I've become more & more convinced that that's it for Paige. I can't see them bringing her back. Like you, JAF, I don't know what I want from the writers but I'd like something. & I know, jjay, that perhaps anything else would give it away, but I think it's out there now. When Caleb went at least Haleb shippers knew he was popping back & that Hanna was going to visit him. At least they knew they could see him in Ravenswood. Paige going means just that .... She's going. Like you said, one episode does not a journey make, but MK has a way of talking up things to make them sound like a big deal, when they're really just throw away (remember Paige's PTSD? The "big" confrontation between her & Ali? The love triangle they were going to "explore" for God's sake?) I'm just a bit fed up & jaded. They've got 6 (6!!!) new characters they're introducing next half-season. I know most of them are one or two eps, but even so, that seems to me they could utilise the ones they have much better (plus looks like Spencer's going to be busy!)

Someone say something to make me feel better, please.

jjay10627

I wish I knew what to say to make all this better but I don't know what that would be honestly. The only thing I can say is that we still don't know what is going to happen. This show is notorious for throwing curve balls like this that eventually turn into nothing. The writers love to stir crap up like this, and it could end up being nothing more than that. I feel like it could honesty go either way. Paige could go and they could easily stay together considering the short amount of time until summer. Or Paige could go and they say goodbye. Both ideas seem plausible with what we do know. Which isn't much other than people have been seemingly been told to keep Paily quiet and have done just that.

Everyone knows that Emily's love life gets the short end of the stick in every aspect but that's just one more thing we can't change. But that's another reason I don't believe they will just kick Paily to the side because they don't care enough to show Paige 99% of the time so I doubt they really want to bring in someone new to start with. And I seriously doubt that E/A is going to happen. Even if the girls do start to believe in Alison again, that doesn't mean anything will happen because I don't believe that any if the girls will fully trust her. How could they?

You know and another thing about the Paige hate thing is that I think a greater part of that is because Paige doesn't care about Alison. She legit doesn't care about her or trust her. And she flat out said it and that makes people hate her because she's not falling for the bull that Alison dishes out. More times than not she is the only logical thinking one out of everyone on the show and she voices that doubt to Emily. So people hate her because they take it as her making Alison look bad for her own gain, when really she's just trying to protect her, as she should. Paige is that voice of reason and assurance that Emily needs to have and its one of the main reasons I love about her character.

So again I wish there was more of a comforting thing to say then "we just wait and see" but it's kind of all I got at the moment.

JustAFriend

I wish I did have something to say peppermint. I know how those feelings can just hit you suddenly, (I may or may not have had a small breakdown in my car when One Republic's "If I lose myself" came on the radio). Paily have been my happy place for a long time. It may just be fiction, but stories can leave a lasting impression and the emotions they evoke are very real.

All I can do is advise that you do NOT watch any fan videos right now. I made the horrible mistake of clicking on one and...it was not a good scene lol

How about we talk about some positives?

1) They're happy. SO happy. Smiles and kisses and hand holding and dancing and public flirting kind of happy. We haven't seen them in that place in a long time and even though it's short lived, at least we get a glimpse of it.

2) There is still hope they'll do long distance and Emily will try her hardest to get into a school in California.

3) We might get phone calls and mentions.

4) There is no reason why Paige can't come back. She's still alive. 2 more seasons right?

5) I would like to re-iterate how in love they are. Three months later they will be even more in love.

Peppermint_P4tti

I love you both for trying. Thank you. (& tbh just writing out my rants does seem to be really cathartic, it's like a little pressure valve of hate & violent upset builds up that can only be relieved by ranting on here. Thanks for being here & actually not treating me like I'm a lunatic).

I couldn't even imagine watching a fanvid, JAF, what gave you the idea you'd be ok?? I can barely look at pictures of them, even a gif is too much. I'm really impressed you tried.

& jjay, I think that's a really interesting comment on Paige not falling for Alison's manipulation. If you're female & have a brain... Bye bye. It's still weird how both Ali & Mona are evil as hell & are adored for it & yet Paige was "mean for one episode" & has never (& will never) be forgiven.

Did you see after ellen actually calling out the love-triangle for the non-event it was?

JustAFriend

LOL I don't know?! I was scrolling on tumblr, it was there, I clicked play....I instantly regretted it and pressed stop. WAY too soon.

In case anyone needs to have their hearts crushed a little more, a sneak peek was just released. Word of advice, don't look up the lyrics to that song playing in the background. It will just hurt even more.

Peppermint_P4tti

**** off **** off **** off. They even ****ing acknowledge graduation & Prom. Just **** right off with this ****ing stupid storyline.

Goddammit.

jjay10627

Yeah...that hurt. Not as bad as I was expecting but it did sting for sure.



I didn't really hear the song and I don't think I want to. I'm just going to try and maintain hope that Paige does return because at least they are saying goodbye on good terms. And we still don't know for sure that they are saying goodbye for good. I know it's probably dumb to waste my time on it but it's hard to let go of them when it's obvious how much they love each other and want to be together. I'm just not ready to completely let go yet.