kayleer90

i'm never going to get over how badly mk and the rest of these writers screwed over Paily and their fans.
I'll always be a Paily shipper but I can longer watch or support PLL. i'm too bitter

How they wrote paige off is just a complete cop out. I don't trust JD handled their last scene together in 514 any better. There's no way he can work off what MK did in the Christmas episode and do this justice.
This couple deserved so much better

I've loved and shipped Paily since season 1 so to see them go out this way is complete BS.

SO MUCH WORD.
And I especially agree with the bold part of your post. At least if they had taken the time and actually wrote Paige's sendoff and tied up Paily's story that way, I would've appreciated it (i'd still be sad they ended) but i'd be satisfied because it would've been done respectfully.
Instead what went down, is just CRUEL, stupid and disrespectful.

Peppermint_P4tti

Yeah to everything you've all been saying. To do it once (Maya) was bad enough. To do it again, to the same character's next LI is beyond ****ty.

I would love to have a quiet off the record chat with JD just to see what his thoughts are about this. Actually I'd just like one of the writers to explain it beyond some lame assed "to shake things up" which I bet is the response we do get (if we get one of course). Bryan will go into ultra-defensive mode, JD will try & placate everyone & MK will do her (as someone said previously) "never say never" utter utter bull****. Well why the **** didn't you shake things up by sending Ezra to ****ing jail, or Toby to a proper cop school on the other side of the ****ing country, hmmm????

I hate everything. I'm going to bed (I'm in the UK - it is quite late )

jjay10627

All of this. ALL OF IT! This is the most upsetting thing of all. It really does cheat not only the fans but the characters. I mean what is the point? Where does this fit into anything that is going to be happening in 5b? It's not like they were going to write Paige into every episode anyways so why not just let us have the few episodes and some good moments in the middle of it all? I mean, they just got back together and we don't even get one episode to enjoy it. And then they do another time jump and screw us out of anything that happened in the three months before 514. I just still can't figure it out. But seriously, to not include her in those major milestones of the show with Emily is just a total FU.

And you know maybe they do try the long distance thing but I don't have that much faith the writers are going to give that to us. Even though Emily did stay with Maya when she left for rehab. That happened, right? So maybe there is a small chance but if they do that then it will get in the way of MK's plan to string the E/A fans along so...who really ****ing knows.

Honestly if 514 is all we're going to ever get again then I would prefer JD be the one to write it. I feel like JD understands Paily the same way that we do, that they really are soul mates and meant to be together. But he can't just do whatever he wants. I wish he could translate more from his stories onto the screen though. I don't even want to begin to guess how 514 is going to go but what makes all this EVEN worse is that it's the premier episode, which means it's going to be jam packed with stupid **** so we will probably only get one scene of Paily together.

If they are going with the long distance thing, which even though I hate the idea of it because I want to actually SEE them together, I would rather have that then nothing at all, it is possible that Lindsey is in 518 or 523. Those are JD's episodes and they were both shot before Lindsey did that live chat where she said she did appear in 5B and that 5B was crazy. Although both of those comments could easily relate to 514 so...I don't know. I just feel so disappointed, like it's left such a sick feeling in my stomach. Ugh.

Peppermint_P4tti

Yup, all of this & thank you for your righteous anger. Though I have to add that I actually forgot that they shipped Maya off to rehab for half a season! I was just talking about the fact she ****ing died!!! Ha ha ha! Fml, so they really are just recycling a storyline that's happened before to one of Emily's girlfriends. They can't even be arsed to think up something new!! Paige better watch out on that long journey - if a freak accident happens ... Or ... Hey! Perhaps Paige could be stalked by a random cousin? Oh ... Wait...

I wake up each morning & I think "oh, ok, the rage is gone. It'll be fine I can just watch the show now & I can get behind whatever random they bring in next to appear at points in the narrative where it would be too ****ing obvious that Emily is being left out/treated differently & we can get praised for including her in snuggling on the bed, and wearing stupid items of clothing or at dances & parties & Christmas ****ing dinners" and then I look at what I've just written & think "nah, I'm actually still quite cross".

JustAFriend

Someone asked MK what's going on with Paily and she replied 'Paily in 514!"...yeah, thanks.

Paily was the reason I started to watch PLL. I felt (feel) connected with them in a way I never have with other fictional characters. About a year ago, I couldn't hold my thoughts in anymore and needed to start sharing my feelings with others. Passively lurking on twitter and message boards wasn't enough.

So I came here, the safest and most welcoming place I could find, and you've all been so fun and amazing and interesting and reading everyones thoughts has been so beneficial to helping me figure out my own.

I've never watched the show without Paily. I've never watched the show knowing I didn't have scenes to look forward to. I have been frustrated with PLL for a while, but this show has a way of driving you nuts yet keeping you sucked in at the same time. So much of my enjoyment with this show has been tied to this online community, I'm not sure what that means going forward.

One thing is a blessing though, I'll be happy to pull myself away from this insane world of online shipping drama. The immaturity, the constant battles..at least if I do keep watching I can do it from a distance.

Errr...Sort of? Emily thought they were, but Maya basically brushed her off once she was gone. Emily was then hooking up with Paige...so.

Peppermint_P4tti

Aww man, you know one of the best things about coming on this board was seeing how you always managed to see the positives in whatever was happening & it's so damn sad to see you upset JAF and with so little hope.

I know what you mean, Paily were/are really special to me & it's been so good to find a place to rant & flail. Does this mean PLL is over for you? It's hard to know how to watch it without Paily & like you say where to go to discuss it anymore. But I'll kind of miss you all. I think after avoiding 514 I'll try & carry on. (I even tried to persuade myself that if Em/Ali happened then I'd be ok with that as long as Em was happy - but it made me feel a bit queasy).

But yeah, the benefit of pulling away from the main fandom / accidentally reading Emison shipper tweets (& others. I saw a Spoby fan the other day saying Paily fans should be happy with their story time cause at least Emily was still into girls ) is huge.

It'll be really sad to watch this thread slide down the board. It's like the last one in the thread please turn the lights out.

ETA: Marlene King can just **** right off, quite frankly.

JustAFriend

Aw, peppermint! That's really sweet of you to say. I don't want to say goodbye!!!

If it helps there is this tiny, tiny, tiny seed of hope that this isn't the end. That somewhere down the road, past time jumps and college and craziness, we'll see her again. 2 more years right?

I'll most likely still watch, because what else do I have to do on a Tuesday night. But the constant hunt for spoilers and clues and analyzing what the writers say will come to an end.

I'll hang around here in some capacity I imagine. All I can say is, we'll see what happens with 514. A lot is hinging on 514 lol

jjay10627

That's right! Well we know Paige would never do that. So maybe they will let them go long distance? I still want to have hope but it's just too hard. It's too hard to guess what's going to come but I think its a very small chance that Paige will be seen again anytime soon after 514. All the cryptic answers we got from everyone lead no where.

What's sad is that I'm not even mad that the storyline is happening because I was expecting it eventually. We knew Paige was going to have to leave sooner or later. The problem is HOW they did it and the way the scene was written. It was just so anti-climactic and it wasn't given the time it deserved to play out. It's cringeworthy and not because it's sad but because it was so badly written. It really just seems like a seriously idiotic way to shake the ship, especially Emily. It was just so forced and obviously rushed just like 421 was. I don't see how MK or any of the writers could be proud of that scene or think it was done with any kind of respect or dignity.

I started watching the show for Paily as well. I had heard of this show when it first started. A lot of my friends were watching it but I never gave it a second thought until I found out about Paily through tumblr. A video of their scenes from 4x09 popped up on my dash (so I kinda started with them being rocky) but right away I was hooked and I watched all of their scenes before starting to actually watch the rest of the show. Paily really has had one of the best written relationships of most of the gay teen couples out there I think. Like you JAF I've never really connected so easily with a couple before, which is what makes this so sad. Plus it really has been a blast being able to come here and talk about everything. The sweet moments and the bad ones.

I honestly don't know if I'm going to keep watching. I just feel over it all at this point. Maybe I'll change my mind but I don't know right now. The thought of never seeing Paige again is really sad and is making me think I won't watch, but I'll for sure still support this ship until the show is over and I still hope everyone pops by once and awhile to relive the good times with these two. Cause despite what's happening right now we do have a lot of good moments with these two to remember.

MK knew that response was crap. She was asked about after 514 and that answer she gave just made me roll my eyes.

jjay10627

Okay. So I've taken some time now to rethink this whole thing and the more and more I think about it all with a clearer and more settled mind set...it still doesn't add up. I know that it's kind of pointless to have any sort of guesses or thoughts about anything at this point but it's been much harder to not think about than I originally anticipated. The whole thing has got me so far thrown it's actually irritating that I can't stop thinking about it.

So many things don't add up about this whole heartbreaking roller coaster we've suddenly been launched off of and I don't even think I feel angry about it anymore, I actually for some strange reason feel awfully intrigued because I feel like there's just GOT to be more to this.

I just can't come up with one good reason as to why the writers could have had to bring Paige back this season if it was just going to end like this. 4x23 was the easiest out for them to end the relationship. Paige had been very much MIA before that anyways. They were free to bring in someone new for Emily, or to further explore E/A. So why wouldn't they just leave it at that if that's where they were going to take these two right back to? I mean sure they could have not planned on this happening and it just ended up that way, but doesn't Marlene always say when they start a season they start at the end of it? So they WOULD have known what was going to happen. And how does that just not seem like a pointless waste of time? Not only for them but also for Lindsey.

I loved everything we got from Paige's side of the story in 5A. The amount of strength and growth that she has been able to gain since the first season is, for me, one of my favorite parts of not only Paily but the show as well. But honestly she didn't really contribute anything to the actual story. Her not being there would have done nothing to stall anything from moving forward. Even with Emily's storyline, she could have still figured out Alison wasn't any different without Paige's influence. Like I said above, they could have also brought someone new in to start with if that's where things are going. But they didn't. They kept Paige in the story and I just can't let go that last shred of hope that it's for a good reason. Maybe that reason isn't apart of 5B but everything we've seen this season cannot be for nothing. I just can't believe the writers would be that cruel to a couple that has been around for this long. Tranna? Sure. Travis was a sub for Caleb. Now, it sure felt that way when I first watched it of course, and even the tenth and eleventh time but now I don't know. That just seems like a really awful way to end a couple they know a lot of people love. And perhaps I'm giving them too much credit but I'll deal with that once we see what 514 brings us.

More and more I'm thinking this is just Marlene's way of keeping the talk of the 'triangle' going. And a way to appease E/A fans for a little while. But then again it could be that this is what is happening and we're just have to accept it. I really hope not but it just might be that way and there's nothing we can do about it. We know Paily deserves better but we get what we get and even if it does end the way we don't want it to, we still have a lot of beautiful moments that can't be taken back. But my main reason for this post was to see what you guys thought about this:

I had a thought last night as I was doing some tumblr browsing and I actually saw someone on twitter today have the same thought, so I feel a bit more safe in suggesting it.

Check this out:http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4a4bfcb4.jpg

I'm sure a lot of us have seen this twitter before. It's actually one of my favorites because whoever runs it does a really great job at getting all the info rather quickly. But when I saw this I thought back to one of my favorite parts of the halloween special. Troian said 'I don't get enough scenes with Paige. I would love to have more scenes with Lindsey.' Ashley and Lucy both agreed. Now 514 ended filming on August 4th. This special was, according to the picture above, shot after that. So I just find it odd that Troian would say that if she knew Lindsey wasn't going to be back. It's a really sweet thing to say but why would you bring her up unless you knew there was still a chance for the scenes to be written? She's not going to say she wishes to have more scenes with Maya or Garrett because they are obviously not coming back. I mean you would think Lindsey herself or someone would mention on set that 514 was her last episode of the season, and possibly for a while. Even at the table read they would know Paily was ending if it was written in the script. Right? Maybe?

The writers aren't answering questions about Paily because whatever answer they give is going to give away what 514 brings. If they say Paige isn't back then we know they've more than likely broken up. If they say yes then we know they more than likely haven't. So maybe it's not that they don't want to answer but they really just can't without giving it all away.

Just a thought.

JustAFriend

I get what you mean jjay, about feeling like it's a waste of time to keep thinking about it but not being able to stop.

I'm not sure if the girls knew what was happening with Lindsey at that point. Maybe everything with Paige is still open ended? People die and still show up on set on this show, so, you know, they live by the "never say never" rule.

Paige's storyline in 5A was fantastic as well as the build up with Emily continuously reaching out to her and showing how much she still cared for her. SO, that does indeed leave the question of why bother if it wasn't going to lead anywhere? All it's leading to is heartbreak and disappointment.

Emily is happy with Paige. She's truly happy and smiling for the first time in ages. You know what is tiring? Seeing Emily perpetually upset. That is tiring. Sometimes it's nice to see Emily happy and enjoying a moment away from the stress of her life. Apparently that's not allowed. Not for Emily.

I'm going to be very curious to see what is said post 514. Very curious indeed.

Peppermint_P4tti

Urgh I know exactly what you mean. I keep thinking I'm ok & then I stumble upon a gifset or photo, or I hear a sad song & it breaks my heart. I've even been waking up in the middle of the night & the first thing I think is about Paily & this stupid ****ing storyline. I even composed a letter to JD in the shower this morning asking him (very politely) if he could help us understand it. (I may post it up here if I can remember it).

I just don't know what to say about it all. Like you jjay, if I think logically about it there's no sense at all. It's so easy to blow holes in:

- why would Paige's parents apparently not give a rat's ass about protecting her after she was KIDNAPPED & held at KNIFEPOINT, yet suddenly now Rosewood is too dangerous?

- if they're so afraid for her why have they left her alone in Rosewood whilst they **** off to California?

- why are they waiting upwards of four months to take her with them?

- where the **** are they during this time up to spring quarter?

- in my (admittedly limited) understanding, isn't spring quarter when they'd graduate anyway? So... Why not let her just graduate / Prom / (pushing it??) summer with her girlfriend?

- why, oh why bother getting them back together? What was the point?

- why can't Emily ever be happy?

It's not even good storytelling. It's messing things up because they have to fill up time because they've been given 2 more seasons, when really the show should have ended at the end of this. They've said themselves the show is going to be unrecognisable at the end of this season. Is that because they know it's two seasons too far?

Sheesh. As for the stuff in the special. It was definitely filmed after 514, when they would have known at table read what was due to happen. & perhaps it does give some hope? Who knows, the show is now so illogical that they'll do what they want - stretching credibility really doesn't seem to matter.

Tbh at my most philosophical I hope (& only if Paige is confirmed to be gone), I really hope they do bring in another LI for Emily. Partly I don't want to see the only gay character sitting even more on the sidelines whilst her friends are smooching around her. Secondly, because I just want the Emisonians to have another ****ing meltdown (yes, I am petty) when even with Paige gone Emily still doesn't choose Alison & to watch from my high tower whilst they harass tptb even more. Oh & thirdly at least we won't have to suffer anymore comments regarding "drowning" "psycho" or "stalker" or dumb theories that Paige is A (thanks for bringing that up again, Wetpaint)

Oh JAF it's so upsetting seeing you so lacking in hope. I can't quite deal with it - have another hug

jjay10627

I get what you're saying. And I've been wrong enough to know that I could be completely off right now, but I don't see how they wouldn't know. If 514 is goodbye for Paige then there would be a scene about it that everyone would know about at the table read. Like 414 when Caleb said goodbye. It was obvious he wasn't coming back at the time, you know? I mean god if they don't at least give us something of a goodbye like Haleb got (at least on an emotional end) then I will be mad.

Of course none of this means we see Paige again this season . But the way Troian said it made it more possible in my mind. It could for sure remain open ended at the end of 514 and if it does stay in this direction than I hope at least it would be left in a way that Paige can return.


.

Seriously! Please somebody point me in the direction of a scene this season where Emily was smiling that didn't include Paige? I just have to laugh at those that say Emily is not happy with Paige. Cause she was nothing but smiles in the Xmas episode, except for when Paige broke the bad news. Her face was lit up at every other moment that she was with Paige.

JustAFriend

LOL Peppermint, you've started writing a letter in your head, and I've actually started writing one on paper. Mine is a bit personal though, otherwise I would share it. Sometimes a tweet is not enough to say what you want to say to a person.

Hope...that dirty four letter word. I'm not completely without hope. There is a part of me that wonders if this is part of a more long term plan that will work out in the end. That with Paige and Emily in the best place they've even been and truly happy with each other, they can't do anything else to them. They've had all the drama they could possibly have, their issues have been worked through (off screen obviously) and they have had 4 months of growing more in love with each other. So, they are pulled apart by circumstances and left to reconnect at a later time.

The fact that not a single person from cast to crew made a comment about Lindsey having her last day on set leaves me wondering as well. You would think that something, even if cryptic, would have been said, and yet there was nothing from anyone. They were all filming group scenes that episode, someone could easily have made a comment about working with Lindsey and nothing would have seemed weird. It's been radio silence from everyone since 5B began.

That's the strangest thing about all of this. Those pictures of Shay and Lindsey came out and Shay didn't say a thing. Instead she was later quoted as saying, "I hope they last forever".

majesdane

Lol, guys, honestly, the thing I learned a long time ago with this show is that the writers don't give a single **** about anything making sense. They really don't. I always used to rag on Sara Shepard's books and how ridiculous they were, but now when I look back and compare them to the show, yeah, the show is so ****ing off-the-rails it's not even close. This show has been a ****ing mess since the start of S2. ****, even before that, with all of the Toby/Jenna bull****, the Ian bull****, whatever. The showrunners really don't give a ****.

Don't forget Maya Goldsmith, Oliver Goldstick, Jonell Lennon, etc, who will say nothing unless it's related to their episode and then they'll agree with any theory that puts them in the best light as a writer. **** that noise. It pisses me off because I know for a fact that BH and JD love Paily but they won't say **** about them when it comes to criticisms. I know fans can be overly negative, but have TPTB ever once responded to any negative criticism? Not just Paily, but Emaya, Emison, literally anything? Nope. They'll never acknowledge that they ****ed up.

But you know what? I'm not even mad any more. I've given the show zero thought since the episode aired. I don't even feel the slightest bit of excitement re: S5b. I don't feel a single thing when it comes to PLL and I don't give a **** either. Like seriously, just **** it. It isn't worth my time and energy. Even if Paige were to come back, so what? The writers would just find other ways to keep ****ing us around. And it's not even just about Paily, though that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. This show is awful and has been awful for 2 years now. And they expect us to just sit through 2 more pointless seasons? **** that noise. 513 was a ****ing mess in every regard. You think I'm gonna sit through 40+ more episodes of that? No way.

PLL can take my support and shove it, frankly.

Peppermint_P4tti

Hmm yeah, as you said JAF & jjay it's the radio silence that's so weird. But I suppose all the cast & crew have been put on strict lockdown so as not to spoil the outcome....

But isn't that weird anyway? Why, when so any other things are spoiled & leaked & teased, why the silence regarding Paige, who of all the reoccurring characters/LIs etc is probably the least popular & who has (seemingly) the least to do with the main mystery/storyline.

Oh God! I've just talked myself into my own Paige is A theory haven't I?!!

But being serious, there's been hints that both Spoby & Ezria are a little rocky this half season, so why the secrecy surrounding Paige? I can't believe it's purely to keep Emisonians hanging on a thread or stop them harassing. Whatever happens tptb have set themselves up for a ****storm I think, either from disgruntled Paily fans or E/A fans with the way they've handled this whole thing.

Argh I almost got myself hopeful then, but then I remember JD's tweet about writing the Paily stories so he can "maintain control" & Shay's most recent one (although Shay's is easier to explain away if they've been put on lockdown, plus, surely the one she wrote round the time would be more cryptic/upset if Lyndsey was gone?) I too just feel like we would have heard something if Lyndsey was gone for good. (Reaching so very far now).

Wow, now I've given myself a headache.

I would also like to report that I'm feeling a little better today. I could even see some gifs of the ep & not dissolve in tears. That's progress, huh? Perhaps the writing of letters is the answer JAF?

Yeah, mccullers, I know you're right to expect anything to make sense is setting yourself up as a mug. And yet ... and yet ... I can't let them go yet. I think my decision will be made post 514. As had been said before, there's a hell of a lot riding on that episode!! (Which lbr, means it's sure to disappoint.)