MizzLurk28

moveon.org

so, in your definition of a whiner, who else on gilmore girls is a whiner? Or should I say who is NOT a whine on Gilmore Girls... Paul Anka's the only one I got.

caf123

Perhaps the difference is not voicing it to both parents. Especially the parent who thought it was unnecessary to call her in the first place.

More importantly, Rory is clearly capable of more than we're seen for a long time now. It's when she whines and then does nothing - perhaps because the storyline gets dropped, who knows, but we have to go with what the writers show - it comes over as whiny.

She's always been independent, once upon a time she was proactive - but the first proactive move I remember this year her writing that letter to Lucy. It's months after the fact, after she let the situation fester.

I understood her being caught off-guard when Marty pulled that nonsense with a bunch of people around - but later, why did she let it go on? She could have told Lucy that actually, she and Marty did know each other and she had no idea why he'd said that.

I applaud Alexis for saying it's unrealistic that all these old boyfriends, etc, are still hung up on her character after so long. I wish the writers would show similar common sense.

MizzLurk28

Ha, only in our dreams.

lemon tart

Actually she is that shallow. Its been shown over and over again. She also can have substance, but she can be hang nail deep as well. As for Max, a big part of why she ended it was clearly not just because she didn't love him. She knew that all along, what really got to her, quite clearly due to how they put together RLotWN, is his desire to share their lives. Letting someone in to the Crap Shack, the key issue, and then his desire to be a real step parent to Rory, not just a bystander. She couldn't share then, she still can't now. That was the deal breaker, not love.
I'm sure we shall.
Then she shouldn't have given him a pass for all his shortcomings when he really realized what a crappy father he had been to Rory. She could have encouraged him to really try to make amends with Rory, to really be there and repair the damage. But instead she gave him a pass.

But Chris's crappy history as a father suited Lorelai's need to have Rory all to herself. Luke, Sookie or anyone in the town could do all sorts of favors for them and she could still close the door to the Crap Shack and shut them out. Which is what she wanted, the Lorelai & Rory playhouse, no other members allowed.
If Lorelai leaves the letter somewhere in their house, their room, most likely, since there's not a lot of extra space in the CS, he could be looking for a stray sock and come across it. That's not snooping. To snoop he would have to know it already existed. Which there's no indication he does prior to finding it.
I think the fact that she's trying to rectify her own needless lie in this episode is signifigant. I do not think she wants to go along with Lorelai, that's clear from the DC, she seems to have learned her lesson. But Lorelai puts her between a rock and a hard place. But it seems Rory has, finally, learnt her lesson, due to her trying to rectify the damage she did to her own friendship with Lucy by lying through omission.
The ep descriptions, I'm assuming written by someone that's seen the rough edit of the episode already, do seem to contradict the *confirmed spoilers* out there, do they not? I'm with you, I've always thought Chris would walk. Leaving Lorelai with no options, since she apparently doesn't think Luke loves her anymore, which I'll still go with till an ep descrip contradicts it as well, thus prompting some introspection, which she sorely needs. Lorelai leaving just perpetuates a long standing pattern. I'm loving the ep descrips since they seem to back up my long held belief that Lorelai needs to be dumped. She said in SS she's been dumped before, but we've never seen it, thus we don't know if she ever really learned anything from it or if Luke was a one time thing.
I think Lorelai should be and deserves to be alone, but it has little if anything to do with Chris. It has to do with the patterns Lorelai has shown throughout the series. If she leaves Chris it just perpetuates these patterns. Max didn't play by her rules, so she left. She seemed to be good with Jason in TTTB, till he sued Richard, which she couldn't support, so she left. Luke she held on longer, but she left because he was putting April first, not her. At this point, with the information we know, if she leaves Chris it would appear that it's because he isn't going along with everything she wants. Love is only part of the equation, in any of those circumstances.

What has she done in her life that has shown her to be a good partner? What has she done to earn happiness? Yes, part of achieving happiness is happenstance. But it's also earned to a degree by forming good patterns that set the stage for love & happiness when it comes into your life. She's done none of that.
I assume you don't mean you don't want Rory to have it all? Since I remember you posting on more than one occasion that you want Rory to graduate Yale with a big rock on her left hand. Well...that and you love Logan!

Thanks for the thread, Fabulous title, Sarah! I wholeheartedly agree! Lorelai DOES want Rory to have it all, she's said it tons of times! Glad to know our Central European peeps are snug & safe.

TheJSW

Damsel, no, that was criticism. Plus, I was overzealous. When I should not have been. Apparently, I believed the hype. I should have listened to Flava and Chuck more. What's wrong with me?

Oh yeah, confirm? It's confirmed in the episode description! Nothing to confirm that the description does not already confirm. IT does not go the way that one assumes it will go. There, I fought the power, and I think the power had the switch turned off a while ago. You dig?

That aside, again, Damsel, never back the BIG DAWG into a corner. Since I got to EAT! Nevertheless, again, if you see her as a whiner. You see her as less than a person. That's the argument. If you want to fight it. Dont sing it. BRING IT. Again, you folks, really need to embrace the power of Scotty D'Moore and Vincent Kennedy McMahon!

ETA: Peachy, that's a good one.

lilmelodie

The problem is that they do that for both Lorelai and Rory. Apparently these girls are the greatest thing since sliced bread and no man can resist them or get over them. These women may be beautiful and all of that, but they both have lots of issues and I don't see them as being that irresistible.

caf123

Heads-up: Ausiello live blogging from the CW session - I'm just catching up, someone said there's been a GG question already - CLICK

lorelaisgirl

Bringing it over, thanks caf:
on GG:

click

ETA: podcast is up too.

damselfly

I'm not being exclusionary, if that's what you're hinting at. We were talking about Rory. But ok, by my definition of a whiner (a person who complains or protests in a childish manner), from the main character pool that would include Lorelai, Chris, Logan, and Emily at times. I can't say I've ever seen Luke in that light -- at least nothing immediately comes to mind. (Well, I take that back, there was the whole drama queen incident).

Rory stands out more this season because there's no balance to her storyline, such as it is.

I think he probably finds it by chance. However, finding it is one thing, but reading it after he finds it is snooping.

Cappuccino

So I have to go through threads reading about how people call Luke a violent, uneducated and just a diner owner who is not social enough for some standards in here, dirty/filthy and not well dressed enough for again some standards in here but when I say I find Rory whiny I better shut up. Let me think about that for second - I don't think so but hey I get it. I'm a JJ and Luke supporter. He is not supposed to have a storyline or any screen time on this show this season anyway so how dare I say something against Rory.

MMmmhhh I wonder why

Thanks for brining this over

peachypeep

I do want Rory to have it all, I just liked my title better. That okay with you?

Didn't you say to me recently: I know you love Logan but you "wub" Luke more? Which I assumed was meant as a nasty remark directed at me personally. Did I assume wrong? I guess because I don't give a **** about Logan's limos, birkin bags, or helicopters I don't qualify as a "true" fan.

voncey

Thanks for the info on the live blogging. Glad to hear DO saw the flaws in the first half and is blaming ASP for it! Whoo!

The ep description says the scene is more than he can handle. It doesn't necessarily mean he walks out for good. He could also throw a temper tantrum. Or walk out and come back later grovelling.

peachypeep

I vote for that. Could be a good title for the next thread, too.

damselfly

Seemed like you were ready to write her off. Knee-jerk reaction that it was.

DR was painted into a corner with the storyline? That's a load of garbage -- he could've easily written himself out of it by making the squicky a one-night stand, and giving Chris a storyline with Rory who he doesn't know what to do with this year. It's easier to pass the buck and blame it on the outgoing regime I guess.

Cappuccino

Leave Caf alone ok. Either just thank her for opening the thread or don't mention it at all. She is doing a nice job here for all of us especially if FF has PMS.