[Nab]

Originally posted by Subject Do you think that the Royal Seal that Zan had passed on to Lonnie after his death? Or do you think that Zan never had the royal seal? From what I remember Lonnie wanted to go home because of power and Kivar. She wanted him back in her life. I don't know if he would want her though. Because Nicholas said that they were the rejects. Also Kivar went after Isable not Lonnie. It should have been Lonnie because she was the most like his original love Vilandra.

You know, that's a very interesting point. See, when Max was tested he had the royal seal and that meant he was the king. But, if Zan had a seal it would have been passed to Rath, as Max was to Michaels. Wouldn't it? So, if take the facts that Max had the seal and that Kivar went to Isabel, that would make them the real Royal Four. But, if you take the fact that the Dupes had more power control and that they were hidden away from the site for (maybe) more protection, then they are the real Royal Four.

[Subject]

Originally posted by Nab But, if Zan had a seal it would have been passed to Rath, as Max was to Michaels. Wouldn't it?

I've heard some say that the seal went to Michael because Isabel was not awake during the time it was passed. I don't really remember that episode but it is possible.

Which group is the real Royal Four is a tough question. Because if Rath had the seal or Lonnie they more then likely wouldn't have needed Max. Also with Kivar going after Isabel and not Lonnie who we suspect acted like the real Vilandra is strange to me.

However, all of these things lead me to believe like Nicholas that The dupes were "rejects" the back up plan if only all of the Roswell Four were killed. Only by killing all of the Roswell Four would the seal pass to dupe Zan and then down the line again.

[fetch]

The thing is, why are the Dupes the rejects if they're more alien? Why did they Royal Four need such a human side?

[Subject]

Originally posted by fetch The thing is, why are the Dupes the rejects if they're more alien? Why did they Royal Four need such a human side?

See, I think that the reason that they had the hybrids made is because humans have great emotions unlike Nasedo. I think that the people who sent them (their mother) was counting on the fact that these emotions would drive the Royal Four more toward completing their goal. Human determination can be a very powerful tool. Or it could be the reason that like in the movie "The Prophecy": "Humans know more about war and treachery of the spirit then any Angel" Or Antarian perhaps.

[fetch]

But in the end it was their human side that made them decide to stay on Earth. Talk about a plan backfiring.

[Subject]

Originally posted by fetch But in the end it was their human side that made them decide to stay on Earth. Talk about a plan backfiring.

I know. It reminds me of Buffy and the Inititive(sp?) That gov. group that Riley worked for if you watched BTVS.

The experiment was a failure. Too bad they didn't carry on with the Dupes. I guess without brining back Zan some how though they wouldn't have alot.

[AlexEvans]

Actually, I think Zan's Seal went to Max. It's my theory that the Seal promotes aggression, assertiveness, controlling tendencies... things a king needs some of, but which in Max went to far - and which he got far worse about after Zan's death.

I think the Seal should have gone to Lonnie/Isabel. Lonnie would have been even more dangerous with the expanded powers. Isabel would have benefitted; her personal demons drove her to be withdrawn or even self-destructive, and the Seal would probably have helped her to the same extent it drove Michael crazy.

[sum1]

Originally posted by AlexEvans Actually, I think Zan's Seal went to Max. It's my theory that the Seal promotes aggression, assertiveness, controlling tendencies... things a king needs some of, but which in Max went to far - and which he got far worse about after Zan's death. I think the Seal should have gone to Lonnie/Isabel. Lonnie would have been even more dangerous with the expanded powers. Isabel would have benefitted; her personal demons drove her to be withdrawn or even self-destructive, and the Seal would probably have helped her to the same extent it drove Michael crazy.

Give the seal to the person who already is happy to invade (violate) people's minds (their dreams) for recreation? Oh great. The person who in her previous life was the traitor who betrayed them all? No way. She'd have been more corrupted by it than anyone.

[Citrus and Vine]

Give the seal to the person who already is happy to invade (violate) people's minds (their dreams) for recreation? Oh great. The person who in her previous life was the traitor who betrayed them all?

Actually, in the episode Interruptus, Michael remembered that Kivar was the traitor, who betrayed them all. Isabel as Vilandra had loved and trusted Kivar, who lied to her, saying that he wanted peace.

I think that directed dreamwalking of people who are awake, like Isabel dreamwalked Pierce, could be an effective way of finding out the truth. Think of all the court time that could be trimmed down, if there was a way of finding out what people knew!

Evidently, Isabel, as Vilandra in her past life, failed to “invade” or “violate” Kivar’s privacy. As a result, she and those she loved were killed.

In this life, Isabel was more cautious. She dreamwalked Jesse to find out more about him.


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I don’t think NY Zan ever had the Seal. I think NY Zan, NY Rath, NY Lonnie, and NY Ava were the four decoys. They were the group contacted for the Summit, but they weren’t the real Royal Four.

Only the true King had the Seal. That was Max, who brought Liz back to life. Max had that power, before NY Zan died. The New York four weren’t the real Royals.

After Tess and Max’s child proved to be human and ineligible to receive the Seal, Kivar came to Earth for Isabel, because she was a true, lineal Royal. Lonnie would have gladly gone with Kivar, but Kivar didn’t want Lonnie. Kivar wanted Isabel, because she was the true Royal, not Lonnie.

Max, Michael, Isabel, and Tess were the true Royals. NY Zan, NY Rath, NY Lonnie, and NY Ava were the four imitations, who were the decoys.




screencaps from Roswell Screen Grab Galleries

[sum1]

Originally posted by Citrus and Vine I think that directed dreamwalking of people who are awake, like Isabel dreamwalked Pierce, could be an effective way of finding out the truth. Think of all the court time that could be trimmed down, if there was a way of finding out what people knew! Evidently, Isabel, as Vilandra in her past life, failed to “invade” or “violate” Kivar’s privacy. As a result, she and those she loved were killed. In this life, Isabel was more cautious. She dreamwalked Jesse to find out more about him.

None of that changes the fact that Isabel also dreamwalked people recreationally, violating people's minds just for recreation. Which strikes me as real disgusting and showing zero respect for other people. Which makes her an awful candidate for the seal, in my eyes.

And the fact that she had awful taste in men in her previous life (choosing Kivar over the original all-Anatarian Rath, heck cheating on the orginal Rath with Kivar) certainly isn't a recommendation and doesn't say much for her judgement.

[Citrus and Vine]

Making mistakes is part of learning. We all make mistakes. None of the characters in Roswell were superheroes. All the characters made mistakes, too.

Isabel as Vilandra made a mistake in loving someone who proved to be untrustworthy. Sometimes people fall in love with the wrong person.

I think it was important that Isabel practice dreamwalking people, even though Max disapproved. Isabel had freaked out her mom, when she first tried dreamwalking her. With practice, she became better at dreamwalking. Isabel dreamwalked Alex to find out if Alex was trustworthy. Isabel also dreamwalked Maria to try to find out if Maria would tell the Sheriff the alien secret. In both cases, Isabel was trying to protect Max, Michael, and herself.

Because Isabel had worked on dreamwalking, she was able to contact Max, when he was imprisoned in the white room. Without Isabel’s skills and help, Max wouldn’t have been rescued.

Without Isabel’s skills, they wouldn’t have found out that Nasedo had been killed or where his body was taken. Nasedo couldn’t have taken Pierce’s place. Max, Michael, Isabel, and Tess would have had to leave Roswell. I’m glad Isabel was skillful in dreamwalking!

Later, Isabel dreamwalked Liz and Kyle, recreationally. Isabel paid for her misdeeds by receiving the distressing cries of Laurie Dupree. Isabel shouldn’t have dreamwalked into Liz and Kyle’s dreams. Nevertheless, some good came from what she had done. Because her mind had been open and receptive, Isabel was able to receive information from Laurie, which later led to Laurie’s rescue.

Again, all of the characters, including Isabel, made mistakes and did wrong things, just like regular humans.

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[AlexEvans]

The past-life stuff is pretty interesting. Vilanda may have had good reason not to choose Rath1; I don't think he ever chose her, either. Besides, you can't just choose to love someone, whether you're married to them or not.

In any case, according to Michael, Vilandra wasn't a traitor, she just got duped. I don't know if I buy Michael's specifics, in part because of the tone of Michael's voice as he related the story. It's certainly possible, however.

An alternative explanation is that both Zan and Vilandra had visions for the future. Maybe both were workable. But Rath1 couldn't make up his mind who to support, so both failed.

Then we come to Roswell. Michael chose Max over Isabel (as far as where to place his loyalty). Rath2 chose Lonnie.

Doesn't that seem significant somehow?

[sum1]

Nothing anybody can say changes the fact that Isabel used invading people's minds as casual entertainment. You can give any excuse you like, but nothing can excuse how lightly she did it. Her attitude demonstrated an extreme lack of respect for other people and that says a lot about her character.

As for all the Roswell characters making mistakes, well, mistakes made by a bunch of teens are one thing, mistakes made by the original royal 4 when they were in positions of great power and authority are a lot more serious. In a position of great power, one's mistakes make a lot more difference and one has a lot more responsibility and must try all the harder to avoid mistakes. And Vilandra really stands out in the category of members of the original royal 4 making mistakes. She allowed her feelings to get in the way of her judgement in a matter of state, something somebody in a position of power must avoid doing, and her whole world paid the price. Seems plenty serious to me.

[Citrus and Vine]

I think Michael was loyal to both Max and to Isabel. Michael made mistakes, too. Michael became power-crazy, when he received the Seal. He didn’t listen to Max or Isabel.

Isabel’s mistake as Vilandra was very serious. She loved and trusted the wrong person.

People like Kivar can sometimes fool people with grave consequences. If Kivar hadn’t deceived Isabel as Vilandra, he might have been able to deceive another person and produce the same outcome. People who lie and deceive sometimes succeed with their lies and their deceptions, because they know how to manipulate people.

People aren’t perfect, not even people in high positions, such as Isabel, when she lived as Vilandra. Even the best of people in the highest positions can make mistakes that have grave outcomes. So, too, people in ordinary positions can make mistakes that adversely affect many people.

Isabel’s recreationally dreamwalking Liz and Kyle didn’t adversely affect Liz or Kyle or anyone else. As much as we might like to think that our private thoughts about people are our own, people sometimes are able to read our thoughts by observing our looks and our body language. For example, Maria was able to tell that Max was interested in Liz, whereas Liz didn’t have a clue about how Max felt about her.

I don’t think it was a terrible thing for Isabel to dreamwalk Liz or Kyle, even though I dislike invasion of privacy, too. I, too, might not want anyone to know my dreams. Or maybe I wouldn’t mind. People already know my conscious dreams.

After Isabel dreamwalked Liz and Kyle recreationally, she was never again shown to recreationally dreamwalk individuals. She dreamwalked Jesse, so she could learn if Jesse was trustworthy. Isabel made a reasonable decision to find out more about Jesse, before she spent more time with him. Isabel protected herself, as she had also helped to protect and help others.

I stand by my defense of Isabel dreamwalking people. It was her skill, and she needed to learn to use, maintain, and improve her skills for her dreamwalking powers to be of any use to anyone. Isabel’s dreamwalking people helped people.

Lonnie and Rath’s skills and powers, in contrast, were used to harm people. They murdered Zan. They attempted to kill Max and attempted to get into Tess’ mind.


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screencaps from Momo’s Roswell

[sum1]

Isabel's recreational dreamwalking was done in a manner that suggested recreationally dreamwalking people wasn't something abnormal for her. Like she'd done it before. And no matter what excuses you make for her doing it, violating people's minds with such casualness says a lot about her and her disrespect for other people.

And no, people can tell things about people in real life, but invading somebody's dreams is an entirely different matter. An unnatural invasion of what's extremely personal. It's an extreme violation. It's disgusting and Isabel is disgusting for taking it so lightly.

And about Vilandra's mistakes, yeah Michael made mistakes too, but we're not talking about the mistakes of a teen like Michael here, we're talking about the mistakes of planetary royalty in a position of power and responsibility. The mistakes of one of the original royal 4, not of the pod squad. A very different matter and a lot more serious. And with dire consequences for a whole planet. Not something I'm going to pass off lightly.

And saying Kivar might have been a great deceiver doesn't excuse Vilandra letting him fool her. She was in a position of power, she'd an obligation to be alert to such things (and she probably had experience being alert that way, too). And the point is, it wasn't just Kivar's deception skills, whatever they might have been, Vilandra let herself be led along by her feelings for him. Somebody in a position of such power can't afford to indulge their feelings like that.

I think Vilandra's mistake wih Kivar was a product of self-indulgence on her part. And I think Isabel treating violating people's minds as light entertainment was a case of self-indulgence (along with being a sign of serious disrespect for others). I think extreme self-indulgence is one of Isabel/Vilandra's stand-out traits. And somebody like that is certainly the wrong person for the seal.