pamcakes

just pm'd u LARA

I'm already missing the season 3 and 4 days of Wesley's angst for Fred. At least she wasn't dead.

justsmile

Fred's not dead.

Um okay, I 100% don't believe that Fred is truely gone. Dead.Never.To.Return.From.The.Grave. Clearly she isn't.

I know that Dr. Evil and Frillyria said that she was gone, or at least her soul is"Consumed in Fire Blah Blah Blah," but I don't think she fully is. Her memories and some of her feelings still remain! Hello Frillyria went to Wesley and remember what they had between them. Ding Dong. And that last scene in the window with Wesley was *so* Fred.

That is so important, obviously that never happened before... memories, feelings, thoughts remaining.

I'm thinking Fred really did something in that lab before Wesley showed up. The container that fell to the floor was empty right? Maybe Fred swallowed something, maybe it persereved her insides? Like that one person at buffstas speculated about that bug from the begining of "A Hole In The World." It crystalizes and perserves. Fred had that bug in the lab! Maybe she ate some of the eggs? And so maybe there is a way to get Fred back? That Fred is helping to save herself?

I know they said that her soul was consummed by fire. But when has that stopped a soul? I mean Spike's soul should have been long gone, 150 years gone... but it wasn't! And Angel's, it keeps going in and out of his body for acouple years now.

I believe that Fred will live again. I mean they showed the flash back to Fred alive and driving to LA at the end... maybe that's showing she'll be back?

And of course we can never should forget that RoboNotDaddy told Fred that Wesley was resurrecting birds at 7. That has to be forshadowing.

There is 6 episodes left, hopefully Wesley will save her by the finale....

I am a bit happy that some of Fred remains. Because Frillyria going to Wesley proves that Wesley & Fred really are soul mates... I mean when a part of her lives on and finds its way back to her true love, I think it's safe to say "Soul Mates."

But Wesley is going to lose it... okay he already has. But Fred was the love of his life. I think he's going to do everything in his power to figure Illyria out, and to destroy her so Fred will live. Or I hope. I know he acted like he knows Fred is truely gone... but I don't think that will stop him. He loves her, and she loves him. He'll find a way.

All in all, a part of Fred is fighting it's way out! So Illyria can hang out with Wesley all she/it likes. Well until Wesley brings Fred back of course. Yup. Then She/It need to pack it's bags and go back to it's well!

PS NO Angel For 5 Weeks. Booo... but then there are only 6 episodes left! Boo some more.

And didn't Joss say Fred would have a "set back?" Well dieing and not being able to come back is NOT a set back... dieing and then there is a possiblity of returning might be thought of as a set back... UGH. Fred will be back... Frillyria is interesting, but I want Fred back. Yup...

review of episode... later. But Amy & Alexis Rock.

MidnightzStorm

Freddddddddddddd!!!!!!! [img]smilies/bawl.gif[/img]

justsmile

Will. Be. Back!

MidnightzStorm

But Meg, her soul! Her soul is burning! [img]smilies/bawl.gif[/img] They go kill Cordy and now Fred! Evil people!

justsmile

says dr. crazy man!

But you also have to remember that Angel's and Spike's souls were hundreds of years GONE, and YET THEY STILL have them! or got them back.

plus I believe Fred did something to herself with that bug... it left the memories and other things [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] (ie the WB says her soul [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] okay yeah they're idiots... but)

I'm not worried. Fred will be back. I mean half of her still is... now it's about saving the other half!

[ 03-03-2004: Message edited justsmile ]

MidnightzStorm

I hope you are right. Because Wesley needs his Fred. Or else he goes all stabbing/shooting crazy. Even though Knox had it coming!

justsmile

Yes, Yes he did. I love that Wesley wouldn't let angel choose between Knox and The Body of Fred [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

moonrise

Yeah, human Wesley didn't care if Knox was human, too. Wes, at the end, indicated that he knew what he did wasn't good morals but he wanted some justice from the man who destroyed Fred. And he only wanted to hurt Gunn, not kill him. It was still bad, but I was so worried that Wes would be aiming to kill Gunn that I'm happy he only wanted to damage him a little. Angel's behavior in Forgiving still seems worse to me.

Poor Wes spent the episode quietly breaking down, with no chance for relief or comfort. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

justsmile

definately.

More of My speculation on Why I don't think Fred's truely dead

[img]smilies/devil.gif[/img]

Wes&FredFan

Coming out of lurkdom! Hi fellow Fresley shippers!

I wish we got a love scene before the angst - but it'll make it that much more passionate when Wesley and Fred are reunited. If Spuffy can get hot love scenes, can't Wesley and Fred get their own romantic evenings? I mean, I want my smoochies!

At least their mutual "I Love You" was poignant. No, Fred didn't say ILY, but then again, she was having a hard time at the moment. She showed him that he was in her heart, that he was "with her" as she held his hand against her heart. That's more touching to me than if she just said, "I love you, Wesley." Plus, I think the "I Love You" was already hinted at...considering the next line of "You Are My Sunshine." Our guy understood her exactly!

Just some uplifting W/F thoughts as we face this 5 week drought!

~Donna, who's STILL crying as she watches that ep...but swoons as Alexis reads a story (SEXY!)

[ 03-04-2004: Message edited Wes&FredFan ]

louloucn

Hi guys!
That episode was amazing although clearly not as amazing as last week b/c last week we had Fred and now she's gone. You know, after all this time of watching BtVS and AtS, Fred's death is the only thing I'm not sure of...I hate the way that they wrote that Fred's soul is consumed, that there's no way of bringing her back, that Giles was a complete a**hole to Angel when he needed his help (even though if you compare Giles' and Wes' situations and experiences, he would totally understand - Jenny?),Wes' resolution that she is not coming back and the last montage of Fred packing up to go to L.A. ...Can they be that cruel? PLEASE let Fred come back...They've killed off Cordy so that kills off any chance for A/C but they can't do that to Wes...he's suffered WAY TOO MUCH!

I loved Alexis in the episode...the way he choked back the tears, the way he was resolute in his vengeance, the sad part in the lab when he explains to himself how it could have happened, that Fred was curious and it makes him hate her a little, even though we all know he doesn't. It is just to make the pain hurt less...

I loved how he broke telling Gunn how she was scared, and trembling and brave and how even Angel couldn't hold him down. If Knox needed to be dead, he was going to stay dead because he killed the love of his life...he's lost all reason so nothing will ever be the same...

I really also loved Harmony in this episode. Not only was she willing to torture Knox, but she also tried to comfort Wes ("The girl of your dreams loved you. Not many people get to have that"- kills me every time) and Gunn...

Poor sweetie Gunn. As much as Fred belongs to Wes, I know that Gunn will always have a place in his heart for Fred and he never wanted to cause her harm, much less kill her...just the scene when he sitting in the hospital bed, sobbing for her. Not only did he lose the only woman he ever loved but his best friend as well...

Illyria...it just hurts seeing her b/c she has the face of an angel but she is all rotted out...the way she manipulated Wes at the end with the old memories...the way that Wes barely whispers "Yes" when Illyria asked him if he was helping her b/c she looked like Fred...the best part for "her" - when she falls to her knees in the temple, saying that her world has disappeared and then Wes cocks a gun to her head and says now she knows how he feels.

I want to have hope that Fred is alive..I want to hope that Joss is not done with her...I feel like he's fond of Fred just like he's fond of Willow. If he could never kill off Willow then there should be hope for Fred...I mean two and a half seasons of wishing for Wes/Fred should not result in him killing off the last female character on the show (Harmony doesn't really count - love her but she's evil and she's not technically part of the team).

[img]smilies/love.gif[/img]
Cindy

pamcakes

Wes's grief over Fred's death really got to me in Shells. He was so distraught over her death and he barely had time to grieve. He was faced with trying stop Illyria--a thing that only appears to be Fred. I definitely felt my heart going out to him.

I have some faith in Wes. I have faith in Fred. If anything, this episode truly indicated to me that Fred is lurking in Illyria. I couldn't help but think it in the last scene between the two. The way Illyria looked at Wes, the way she reacted to Wes and the way she is drawn to him.....deep down, its Fred coming out and coming back. IMHO.
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ 03-04-2004: Message edited pamcakes ]

louloucn

I want to believe in that pamcakes - I truly do...it's the last ounce of hope that I retain for this show...right now Wes and Fred are the heart of this show...the reason why I came back to watch it...if ANYONE deserves a happy ending, it's Wes. The guy has gone to hell and back and when he finally gets the woman of his dreams, she has to be ripped away from him? How *****ed up is that and what kind of sick joke is Joss trying to pull with him?

Man, Joss' universe always leaves me emotionally ravaged and this is no exception...I've lived through B/S being broken apart, A/C ripped apart, I'll be damn that the same fate is for Wes/Fred...yes pain but there must be hope and love...people can argue that B/A were meant to be and B/S and A/C couldn't have lasted b/c of the fact but there is no question about Wes/Fred...Wes loved her more than anything from the beginning...he will never EVER love another person like he loved Fred...she is where his humanity, his hopes, his wishes lies and to take that away from him is just horrid...Wes is my favourite...he can't be left like this.

[img]smilies/love.gif[/img]
Cindy

*~*Rach*~*

Morning! In class so I can't say a lot, but I just wanted to pop in and say that Knox pissed me off more than I thought possible last night - at one point I threw part of a ham sandwich at my laptop because it was what I happened to be holding ... had to pause the ep due to the big mageriney smudge on my screen!

Will be back later to say more, and also read what you all had to say properly!