straws

Bringing this over here.

Angel had so clearly moved on by then that his feelings for Buffy in S5 felt so insincere, petty, and more of just a competition/vendetta against Spike than out of real love for her.

Ashes Fall

NOOOOOO!
In all seriousness, I believe he does support both C/A and B/A from what I've heard.

I'm sorry but this is half the reason I can't stand Spike in AtS.
IMO he was a waste of screen time, he brought nothing to the plot and he reduced Angel to a--teenage boy is generous, I prefer 5-year-old.

Yeah, it's unacceptable to me as well that she was killed off and I maintain that the goal of the episode, to get Angel back on track was achieved not in YW but in ATS.
That kiss is what makes YW though. Best freaking kiss on television!

No damn it, I was about to post that!
I'm never fast enough!

The poll creator argued that the poll was specific to a BtVS episode but still. Cangel is so underrated!

Amen!
Even in 'Chosen', I'm pretty sure it was another beige blip, I mean he'd JUST watched the love of his life nearly get blown to bits, hospitalized her and then gave up his son.
That when he found out about B/S it was more about hating the feeling of being shown up by Spike's earned, secure soul.

Crystal Clear

I saw that poll last night! Charisma's response She's such a CA ringleader

In fairness, I think the poll was about Season 2 of BTVS but I still love how Charisma's first reaction was to complain about Cangel not being included.

Ashes Fall I kinda agree with you to an extent on Spike in Angel Season 5 In fact, if you read interviews, Joss really just wanted James and David together for chemistry reasons. I don't think he really thought further beyond that, in terms of whether it actually made sense for Spike to be in the show.

Then again, I absolutely hated the gang's shift to Wolfram & Hart, so I don't think anything really went right in the season for any of the characters.

Ashes Fall

I'd follow her anywhere!

I saw that response to her from the poll creator, but to me (and I bet Charisma), sticking to BtVS is just a convenient reason to exclude C/A.

Not surprising but I've heard that the network had a hand in it as well.
I believe the intention was for Spike to go through with leaving to return to Buffy after his little Champion bit proved to be a scam but the network pressured them into keeping him for the entire season.

Amen. Cordelia summed that up best:

Crystal Clear

James is a talented actor so I was just happy to have more Spike on my screen (I was devastated about his death in BTVS, even though it was very heroic)

BUT I did feel that he was made a regular when it had reached its worst point (through no fault of his own), and it showed in how much they struggled to fit him in with the group. They reduced him to the comic relief for a while -- haunting Angel when he was a a ghost, teasing him over being a puppet, then of course -- the dreaded bonding between Spike and Angel due to their jealousy over Buffy moving on. It was such teenage soap opera stuff that I can understand why Spike's role in this season didn't really excite you.

Also, I wanted Spike and Cordy scenes. James and Charisma have had various reunions since the show went off air, and they have wonderful chemistry. The show barely gave us any of this.

It's so sad to me, because Seasons 1-3 were great. But once they destroy Cordy in Season 4 and shift the group to the Lawyers' territory, the show stopped being great.

Ashes Fall

I hate to continue ripping him apart but I found his heroic moment in BtVS rather cheap. It was a simple solution that invalidated the entire potential army build-up.
To throw him a bone, I did appreciate that he somewhat resented being brought back because he had felt fulfilled and at peace having gone out a hero.

Nail on the head.
Although I am 110% team Angel, I don't dislike Spike as a character. I just felt he brought nothing to AtS but a bit of pointless humor and old hang-ups to Angel himself effectively taking the character several steps backward.

Akin to a judge telling the jury to disregard a statement, it's like Joss was trying to tell us to disregard everything Cordelia brought to the show.

Another bone, the humor was enjoyable, I'll never forget that when Spike becomes corporeal again and the first thing he does to test it is feel Angel up, I had a spoonful of soup to my lips that ended up all over my jeans but there was no substance, it just wasn't necessary.

I did like the A/C/S chemistry in YW.
I'd have loved to see her have to play mama bear to A/S's childish rivalry. Powers know Angel needed it. :eyeroll:

Indeed.

Crystal Clear

In fairness, it actually made sense for Spike to be the ultimate Chosen One for that moment.

The Potentials were there to fight as many of The First as they could... But only physically. They were also worn out during the fight, and they needed the amulet to destroy each and every one of them until nothing but dust was left.

Thus, I think Spike's actions didn't take anything away from the Potentials. He simply saved them all from having to sacrifice themselves. Win-win.

That was nice and completely fair words from him. Also, it powerfully reflected Buffy's resentment in Season 6 about being brought back from the dead.

That did perfectly sum up their entire relationship. Love/hate with some harmless homoerotic subtext.

Agreed. Charisma could have been exactly what people wanted Sarah to be. The person who keeps Angel and Spike in check and makes sure they keep a good head on their shoulders.

As we know -- without Cordelia by his side, Angel was lesser. It's her absence that guarantees their failure. They sign the Wolfram & Hart papers because they didn't have Cordy there to tell them how frriggin' naive they were being

Ashes Fall

Good point, it was more the potentials who weren't necessary.

You know what would have been a bit cooler, is if Cordelia had accompanied Angel to Sunnydale, both had remained for the fight and Cordy ended up wiping out the ubers with her higher being light explosion.

Amen.

Ashes Fall

Enough of the negativity.

That little subtext-y moment when Angelus chose to run past all the Scoobies to tackle Cordelia.


https://storgram.com/post/Bw2tH8RD-mm

Crystal Clear

^ The fact that he jumped on Cordelia like that

In all seriousness, that must have been scary for her Remember, she and Angel had struck up a flirtation earlier in Season 2.

So... I just read that they're having a cast reunion for Angel's 20th Anniversary.... Without David?

Yeah, um -- he went to the BTVS one. The one where he was a lead actor for less than half of the show.

Ashes Fall

WHAT!?
Not acceptable! *Storms into Twitter*

Meanwhile, this one isn't so Cangel-y but I've gotta cuz DORK ALERT!
I just love that second to last panel where Cordy and Wesley are just like WTF and Cordy looks concerned like "Sweetie, are you doing drugs?"

Cangelforever

Hey I'm new here and I am so excited that I found this thread because I didn't realize people loved Cangel like I do. All I ever see is hate for them. It is nice to see other people who love them.

Cangelforever

Hey I'm new here and I am so excited that I found this thread because I didn't realize people loved Cangel like I do. All I ever see is hate for them. It is nice to see other people who love them.

Cangelforever

Hey I am new here and I am so happy I have found this thread because I love Cangel and I didn't realize there were people here who love them like me all I ever see is hate for them.

Ashes Fall

Welcome, Cangelforever, our fandom might be smaller but it's mightier!