Cangel1987

I love that scene - it was very funny

Crystal Clear

Long time no see Cangels

In honor of my favorite family dynamic on the show -


To hell with Season 4 for destroying this with that yucky relationship.

Cangel1987

I totally loved the family dynamic between Angel/Cordelia and Connor. I totally have enjoy watching it.

Season 4 was just very wrong and terrible -.- I try to block that season out. For me it´s the worst Angel season ever.

Crystal Clear

Absolutely and Charisma Carpenter herself agrees.

Season 4 was a complete betrayal of everything that came before for Cordelia. To twist her relationship with Connor into something romantic was sordid and wrong. And they always remind us "it wasn't the real Cordy", but that's not the point. It's the same actress we're watching, and Jasmine is PRETENDING to be Cordelia. Therefore, not only does the audience think it's Cordelia, but the gang and Angel believe it is, too.

I've seen people say that Season 4 is their favorite, and the only thing I can think is that they must have really hated Cordelia before that point to support that season so much.

starryeyesxx

I get what you mean, but for me the distinction is important. It wasn't Cordelia. The story still sucked for her, but she didn't do that things that we all know she would never do. It did take a long time for the story to unfold & reveal that she was possessed pretty much the whole season, so it was hard to watch - but I'm still one of those people that has to hold onto the 'not really Cordy' side of it

Crystal Clear

Oh, for sure, it feels better to know that it wasn't the real Cordelia whatsoever but Charisma has also been open about the fact that it didn't make it any easier to act out.

I always find conventions awkward, because she is inevitably asked about Season 4 and all of the weakest elements -- and it really puts into perspective how sad she was that Cordy/Angel was basically left out in the cold to push this whole evil side of her to the surface and make people think they were watching her with Angel's son And the whole element of manipulation in it... Remember, this was the same woman we watched care for Connor as a baby. We watched her parent him alongside Angel. So, it really seemed like the writers just lost the plot here and did whatever they could to shock people

Cangel1987

If I think on season 4 I always try to ignore it as much as possible. "Fake" Cordelia (Jasmine) and Connor -.- I can`t really put my feelings into words. Except that it was terrible and fearful. Because for me Cordelia was Connors "surrogate" mother from day one. Angel and Cordelia was his parents and it`s just really terrible and disgusting.

Crystal Clear

Agreed. I think the writers owed Charisma a huge apology for what she was forced to act out in that season. She has often said she felt very uncomfortable doing those CC S4 scenes and was only comfortable doing intimate scenes with David, particularly during her pregnancy.

I would have preferred the complete removal of that entire story arc from S4 and watch 'Spin The Bottle' on repeat

starryeyesxx

Definitely, it makes the whole thing easier to deal with

It is a shame that Charisma still gets asked about s4 so much, I'm hopefully going to see her at a con in October, so I'll have to think of some happier questions to ask her





https://theangelrewatch.tumblr.com/p...ch-306-billy-1

Ashes Fall

What? How did all these posts get here without me?!

Ugh season 4! I block it out as well and season 5.

Charisma is an incredible woman to have gotten through that. It wasn't just a **** plot but vilely abusive to her.
She'd had to endure verbal abuse from Joss and was very uncomfortable performing the incestual squick with the Connor actor.

It didn't end there.
She had no idea she wasn't in season 5 until the press questioned her about it and was tricked into signing onto 'You're Welcome' as she wasn't told that Cordelia was being killed off until after the fact. She broke down crying when she found out.
I've heard that Joss had once promised her that that wouldn't happen.



https://archiveofourown.org/works/10827417

You know what I think would be great? A reboot film in which Angel gets the PTB to send him back in time to 'Tomorrow' so he can stop Cordelia from ascending and being possessed by Jasmine and back even further to stop Wesley from kidnapping Connor.


I'll bet it's Bangel fans reveling in Cangel being utterly destroyed. Or so they think. ATF to the rescue!
Those people cling like ticks to the most minute of excuses they can squeeze out of every nook and cranny to deny that Angel was in love with Cordelia.

Cangel1987

Yes, I think so too. I mean Cangel grow slowly from friends to lovers - what could be better than falling in love with each other?

My friend and I were just friends and then fell in love with each other. And I'm more attracted to Cangel it feels realer to me - it's far more credible to me (because of real life experience) than just falling in love with attraction "like" Bangel.

fractured moonlight

I think AC are the best couple from both shows. Though to be fair I didn't ship anyone else or watch Buffy after a certain point but still. AC are the best.

I stopped watching the show early in S4. I think I read some spoilers and I was so pissed I couldn't keep watching.

Charisma deserved better.

Ashes Fall

Amen.
C/A is how it should be. A bond, an emotional connection that grows into a romance naturally not just some fairy tale attraction.


I briefly shipped Bangel when I first watched BtVS but turned quickly and concur that A/C are the best couple in both series.

Smart, I have no idea why I didn't.

I did take a year to watch season 5.
First, someone on twitter told me about YW so I watched that by itself then I got tired of not understanding the season 5 references being made in discussions so I broke down and watched it.
Once was more than enough. I wish I could UNwatch TGIQ! That was a cesspool of CA disrespect! I had trouble NOT throwings things at my television.

Cangel1987

Back in the day I used to ship "Bangel" too. I don`t even hate it now - the most part which bring me to start to dislike it - it`s rather the fans. Since they didnt even consider other ships. I dont want to bash Bangel but that is my own experiences in the fandom.

I totaly dislike season 4 - and wish I could block that season out in my head.

For me the only think, why I watching season 5 was because of Spike. I totally disliked the story line of Nina, as well the thing with Fred/Illyria - but at least Amy stayed on the show.

I just miss Charisma/Cordelia - without her, it was just not the same. She was and is the heart of the series.

Ashes Fall

Oh, I do hate Bangel AND try as I might have little respect for the fans because they're so close-minded and see through fairytale goggles.

I hated all of the above, including Spike. He brought some good humor but was an utter waste of screen time and made a petulant child of Angel. Not to mention he put Buffy back in Angel's head.

Nina pissed me off, the way she was pushed romantically onto Angel literally weeks after Cordelia was respectively hospitalized and died.

So did Fred/Illyria, I resent her for getting the death aftermath that Cordy was denied.
Then Illyria became another waste of screen time after declaring her resurrection a waste with her Kingdom gone.