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The Ketchup Kids (B/H) #11: In Their End is Their Beginning (2)
(Title by way of T.S. Eliot. 'Cause I'm hip.)
Banner by Thief The Ketchup Kids | Shippers on board 001. *nathanhaley* 002. Elusive One 003. IceKat055 004. 80sBabygirl 005. xxlisaxx 006. Sharon86 007. beautifulgarbage 008. jadorexme 009. EphramIsHot 010. Sick And Twisted 011. Tim'sLoveSlave 012. MissCongeniality 013. terresita 014. Mr. Brightside 015. TVGEEK 016. Jay_10 017. *Rach* 018. creekfreak08 019. Deee 020. The Fifth Element 021. Pace & Jo 022. louloucn 023. cabot7 024. PiCkLeS4dAwSoN 025. veryvogue 026. daphneejen 027. DJDonkeyGirl 028. JoshnKatie#1 029. angelface211 030. ViviLit 031. kelseylyn 032. violet 033. Forever Eden 034. glory fades 035. BrItTaNy62 036. ergo3 037. OyWithThePoodlesAlready! 038. KIT 039. UNperfect 040. konstantine23 041. mara_lynn 042. Buttacup 043. iluvspike 044. froukje 045. Thief Of Love 046. BehIndxHazELxEyes 047. bitterkidxsweety 048. KaLiPinAy23 049. your_konstantine 050. Callalilly 051. AnnieN 052. othlov3r23 053. icygrrl02 054. DYani 055. ~*twilight*to*starlight*~ 056. lasha4god 057. Nori 058. strawberrykisses617 059. Just like Patty Pryor 060. frodobaggins07 061. JacquiJack 062. Labyrith 063. OTHPsycho23 064. rorygirl 065. sweetheartin 066. BabyBlueEyes2808 067. Noyo 068. GREATSHOW... 069. Ulysses1 070. amore85 071. youforgotpoland 072. ~Kissin In The Rain~ 073. OyWithThePoodlesAlready 074. dreamsingr 075. True Daisy lover 076. Luckylyn64 077. Luv2raveaboutroswellgurl 078. LuckyStar23 079. SirenSong 080. Boymeetswoldgirl82 081. Gosling Fan 082. AppleBehryGrl23 083. SirenSong 084. 23Ravens 085. HaveALittleFaith 086. Lady_Hatchkoff 087. Kate the Great 088. DreamWalker 089. -diana- 090. somewhere87 091. dreamsingr 092. tav552 093. Claire&CharlieFan4eva 094. jules83 095. lorelaismyidol 096. autumn_hope 097. Jackie85 098. lavenderskies 099. craziprodigy 100. Dawnie_AngelUK 101. yourallineed 102. ~swanilda~ 103. Fleni 104. Centerfinn 105. Freshgirlly908 106. Logan lover DK 107. Giuly 108. cranny4eva 109. Bella Grint 110. Elyx 111. AlwaysHoldingOn 112. lies and lullabies 113. glitter doll 114. Melis 115. LoVe-Story 116. gizzie_fan 117. ThePrettySophia 118. kiss paradise 119. missingOTH 120. Ellie Cameron 121. varjak-golightly 122. xBeautifulDisasterx23 123. How Cute Is She 124. ML4ever 125. Ali Marie 126. NBalways 127. Let The Ball Drop 128. 'Tos 129. The MusicLives 130. B.Chambers 131. Swamy 132. Betty 133. Taryn74 134. MeredithLuvsMnJ 135. frecklesandwine 136. courtneybangelcakes 137. JamieScott 138. julyhsm 139. ElectricHearts Last edited by everwoodfan52; 08-30-2013 at 09:11 AM |
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#2 | |||
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Thanks for the new thread. Should I bring my last post on the old thread over here Michelle?
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There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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#3 | ||||
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Last edited by jediwands; 07-23-2013 at 07:48 AM |
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#4 | |||
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What do you guys think for a title? I left it open. I wish Thief would come around to this neck of the woods because her beautiful banner has a 10 on it, and I would love to change it to 11 but don't know how to. Thief, if you are reading this and want to change it to 11, please let us know! Last edited by jediwands; 07-25-2013 at 12:18 PM |
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#5 | |||
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Thanks Michelle. Well, I'll never feel the same way about Greg Berlanti after hearing that news!
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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#6 | |||
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#7 | |||
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Yes, Michelle, we always blamed Stupin, and ultimately, he was the one who’s responsible for that disaster because he was the show runner after Kevin Williamson left, but I’m so disappointed that Greg Berlanti came up with the idea for Pacey and Joey. The idea of Pacey and Joey could have appealed to me if it was done right because Josh and Katie did have a lot of chemistry, but the way that they were brought together turned me off to them, and I didn’t warm up to them until Season Six, because by then Dawson and Joey had been so completely destroyed as a couple and as friends that I gave up on them, and even now, I’m still bitter about how everything went down at the end of Season Three.
Kevin Williamson seems to have a habit of walking away from his shows and leaving them in the hands of people that don’t have his gift for storytelling and who change the direction of the show once they take over. He did it with Dawson’s Creek, and now he’s done it again with The Vampire Diaries. In both cases, once he left, the “Soulmate” couple on the show was ruined to accommodate the “Started out as Enemies” couple. __________________
The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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#8 | |||
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Jerry, you are right on about Stupin still being ultimately responsible because he was the show runner. Everything had to run by him no matter what. Shame on Berlanti to ever come up with such a lame idea. Pacey/Joey could have been done properly if other characters and couples didn't have to be destroyed in order to go there. Dawson/Joey could have been portrayed as just friends or friends who tried romance but it didn't work out so they went back to being friends only. Pacey/Andie were so special and had to be knocked down in order to make way for Pacey/Joey. Also, with Dawson/Joey, they kept the "meant to be/soulmates" tag with them until the very end so they strung along Dawson/Joey fans from start to finish. That is what's so bad and why the series was a disaster post season 2. If Pacey/Joey would have been done properly, that is one thing. But the pairing is like Madison on Everwood in a way... the pairing had to take out certain aspects of the show in order to stand up. Thankfully, Madison didn't destroy Everwood but she certainly is held responsible for wasting time and energy on her when that precious time could have been spent on things that mattered. Pacey/Joey changed the entire flavor of Dawson's Creek. Season 5 was so bad because Katie took center stage and the entire premise of the show was gone when Dawson was drowning in his own creek.
Kevin Willamson should be ashamed for abandoning his own art. It reminds me of a painter who starts creating a masterpiece that looks very promising and spectacular. But then, suddenly, the painter hands the brush to someone else and asks that person to finish it and without any instructions on how to finish it, let alone that personal touch is gone and the entire masterpiece is ruined. |
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#9 | |||
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Well, I don’t know why Williamson walked away from The Vampire Diaries, but with Dawson’s Creek, I think that he and everyone involved never expected the show to go beyond Season One, because it was a Mid-Season Replacement Show with a limited number of episodes on a fledgling network, so that’s why Season One played out like a Mini-Series, with a beginning, a middle, and an end where Dawson realizes that he’s in love with Joey and he kisses her. Once the show became tremendously popular and it was renewed, they didn’t know what to do, so they broke up Dawson and Joey and brought in Jack and Andie as love interests for Joey and Pacey, because I guess they felt that keeping Dawson and Joey together as a couple would make them boring, but once they broke them up as a couple, they also destroyed their friendship, which was what everyone had loved about them, and the show was never the same after that. Williamson’s involvement in the show was minimal in Season Two, and he left the show entirely after Season Two, and the show suffered for it.
In hindsight, they shouldn’t have gotten Dawson and Joey together so early in the Series run, because they had nowhere to go but down after that. They should have kept them as friends and allowed them to date other people, but have them realize in the final season that they were meant to be together. Instead, like you said, the writers and producers cynically strung along the Dawson and Joey fans with all the “soulmate” talk and giving them a nice scene together here and there to show they still had a connection, but in the end, the Dawson and Joey fans got nothing but a phony “soulmate” declaration between them, which ultimately meant nothing because they became the antithesis of “soulmates,” and she ended up with Pacey. __________________
The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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#10 | |||
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I wish the show would have ended after one season. It would have been perfect. I also heard they thought the show was done after Coda aka the finale of 4. That is why, once again, they had Dawson/Joey kissing in his bedroom. They still, at that point, wanted Dawson/Joey getting the romantic happy ending. Once season 5 happened, it became Joey's Creek and outside of throwing Dawson/Joey fans a bone with their first time sleeping together, that was all that they were giving the pairing. Of course they still went with Joey jealous of every romantic pairing Dawson had and the ending was going to be Dawson/Joey even in the finale, but was changed at the last minute.
I basically separate the series into three parts: After the Season 1 Finale: That is when the series should have ultimately ended, the series finale of 1. It had the premise and exact ending Kevin wanted. It made sense. After the Season 4 Finale: The disaster known as season 3 took place, followed by the PJ romantic relationship in season 4, but the entire time Joey was with Pacey, we saw she wasn't over Dawson romantically. Thus, Coda made sense and it was still a version of the finale of season 1, even with a little bit of crap in between. Season 5 until the end: Was just ridiculous and the show was just off the mark completely once Joey inherited her creek. Yes, a huge mistake they made was getting Dawson/Joey together that soon. They thought the series was over after the finale of 1, so they went there. They didn't know what to do after that so it was roadblocks and stupid storylines, like Joey telling Dawson she needed time on her own, only for her to fall into the arms of a gay guy who ultimately didn't want her either. The biggest mistake ever made, though, was the Pacey/Joey relationship. That changed this entire series and there was no turning back. They could have gone with the obstacles and other romantic pairings for Dawson/Joey if it would have been pairings that were short-lived and didn't affect the main story. The second they went with Pacey/Joey, Dawson/Joey were doomed (there was one last chance if the show ended after Coda, but didn't) and there was no turning back. Last edited by jediwands; 07-23-2013 at 10:18 AM |
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#11 | |||
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I created a new thread discussing Creek over Here
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#12 | |||
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Jack and Andie was Kevin Williamson's idea He auditioned hundreds of actresses for the role of Andie and as soon as Meredith walked in he knew he had his Andie.
KW was quite fond of Meredith Monroe and the character Andie. At the end of season four I they wanted Meredith Monroe to come back and do some more episodes. Meredith being pissed about being let go refused. After Some backroom dealing and cajoling she did come back and film the graduation. I strongly suspect that they felt the show was going to be canceled at the end of season four. So they wanted Meredith Back so Pacey would be with Andie. The season ended Dawson and Joey kissing and pacey and Andie in a real good place in their lives.........This is when the show should have stopped instead of becoming Joey's Creek or as someone said somewhere a poor copy of Felicity. |
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#13 | |||
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The original is on an old computer, but it was basically just a matter of painting over and replacing the number.
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#14 | |||
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Nice! It looks perfect. I just love that banner. Adding it right now, thanks!
Last edited by jediwands; 07-26-2013 at 03:00 AM |
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Okay, here's a topic question:
If you were the writer of the Bright/Hannah storyline in the series finale, how would you have constructed their ending? |
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