[jediwands]

Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post) Spoiler: yes! How peyton obsesses over lindsey being there and the plant and everything lindsey without it being brought up by someone else to me is the ultimate sign that she is as jealous as you can be. All the while trying to hide it and pretend he wasn't a part of the reason why she returned. Oh and when lucas randomly gets inspiration to right again after two years when peyton comes back? Umm yeah lindsey your worries are founded, just get out before you get hurt even worse.

^^^ Yes!

[cowgirl08]

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) ^^^ Yes!

Trust me S5 is worth watching in full. I think as an LP fan you will enjoy it more than you think and even maybe have a new perspective on it all, it's much easier to watch now that you know the ending so you can just look for the small things. The glances, the irrational behavior, etc. when it comes to LP.

Also....

For the record I never had a problem with Lindsey, she was an outsider that truly loved Lucas - she didn't really have much to go on in those situations. It's natural to come in with her back up a bit and really in the beginning she does a really good job of trying to be friends with everyone (bamboo plant episode cracks me up so much with Peyton mainly because its evidence she is soo not over Lucas like she keeps saying).

I will agree Peyton does some things that made me want to pull her back in S5, I won't say they were anyone else's fault but her for those because they were low. But at the same time for me it was kinda natural. Peyton has become to be known as someone who always takes the high road in life but when it comes to Lucas she can't and for some reason I am okay with that. Lucas is it for her, he brings her out of that dark place she was in when we first met her in S1. So when anyone threatens that (Brooke, Lindsey) she forgets to filter things a bit. Is that a little unhealthy? Eh maybe haha but some may say killing yourself when you think the other is dead is a wee bit unhealthy as well and Romeo and Juliet are known as the greatest love story of all time.

[ds44]

Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post) Spoiler: YES! How Peyton obsesses over Lindsey being there and the plant and everything Lindsey without it being brought up by someone else to me is the ultimate sign that she is as jealous as you can be. All the while trying to hide it and pretend he wasn't a part of the reason why she returned. Oh and when Lucas randomly gets inspiration to right again after two years when Peyton comes back? Umm yeah Lindsey your worries are founded, just get out before you get hurt even worse.

Spoiler:

I gave 0 craps about Lindsay. She was so boring and self-righteous. I was glad Peyton got in her face, but that was due to the fake-niceness of Lindsay. I thought it was hilarious that Haley sided with someone she knew for two years over her own friend. According to Haley, Peyton wasn't just a random girl, but someone SHE considered a friend, but she certainly didn't act that way. I wouldn't feel that way if the writers hadn't gone around acting like PH were friends outside of Lucas. I was so here for the angst and Peyton throwing the books. Lucas bailed on them so easily all because she wasn't ready to rush to the alter at 19. As for Lindsay whatever girl was the boys editor she SHOULD have known what her ass was getting into.

[cowgirl08]

Originally Posted by ds44 (View Post) Spoiler: I gave 0 craps about Lindsay. She was so boring and self-righteous. I was glad Peyton got in her face, but that was due to the fake-niceness of Lindsay. I thought it was hilarious that Haley sided with someone she knew for two years over her own friend. According to Haley, Peyton wasn't just a random girl, but someone SHE considered a friend, but she certainly didn't act that way. I wouldn't feel that way if the writers hadn't gone around acting like PH were friends outside of Lucas. I was so here for the angst and Peyton throwing the books. Lucas bailed on them so easily all because she wasn't ready to rush to the alter at 19. As for Lindsay whatever girl was the boys editor she SHOULD have known what her ass was getting into.

Spoiler:

That's the thing about Lindsey. She read the book, she KNEW the story of Peyton and Lucas. I mean did he change the ending in the book and we just don't know it? Did he not tell their full story. I mean Lindsey had to see it - she herself was a fan of it even. I guess Lucas came back from LA after the botched proposal and was hurt and that hurt drove him to convince Lindsey so admittedly that those feelings are gone that she believed him because she wanted too, because she wanted to believe their feelings were real. Again I don't hate on Lindsey because she came into an impossible situation from the start, she is a smart girl she knew, she saw the red flag early when she came to Tree Hill (i.e. the timing of him starting to write the Comet...not to mention the name) but her heart kept out weighing her mind when it came to the logical thing to do.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) Haley was also Peyton's friend, too. Haley knew the score.

I disagree with this because I view friendship differently. First I don't expect people to read my mind. I know that I can't do that so if someone wants me to do something they would have to tell me. Otherwise I might not do it and I won't feel guilty about it. Because of this I don't think that Haley did anything wrong.

I couldn't have cared less about that episode in school when poor Mary Sue Lindsey got her feelings hurt. I don't care about her father. I don't. I don't care if that's harsh but I won't fall for the manipulation Mark was selling. Mark wanted cheap drama so he set up Peyton in that episode so Lindsey the Mary Sue got hurt. That's all it was. BS. Any hurt Lindsey felt was Lucas' fault for being with her when he really ultimately wanted Peyton. I also wonder how Lucas or Nathan would have felt about having to hang around one of Haley's or Peyton's current BFs knowing they still had something together. I would wager a strong guess they wouldn't have been nice or even cordial to them. But because Peyton's a woman she isn't "expected" to act that way so of course people react and take the bait. Not me. I also call that BS. She reacted like a normal person would have. That's life.

No one forced Peyton to be friends with Lindsay. It's one thing to be friends with someone and totally different to be nice. Peyton was rude beyond limits in this case.

And if it was Nathan or Lucas I would feel the same. For me it doesn't matter if it's a woman or man. It's bad behavior. People say in my country that if someone has nothing nice to say they should shut their mouth. It's not about Lindsay. It's about Peyton. She was a bitch in 5th season. And if she wasn't Peyton, but any other character most people would call her for it.

Since I'm a person who doesn't give a damn if someone is the main character or not and if some couple is the main or not I usually call people on their ****. It's a trait I have even in real life (I could call with the same success my parents on their **** or someone with more authority than me). I don't care at all that this is Leyton or if this was supposed to show the love between Lucas and Peyton. I still saw it as bitchy behavior. The fact that she was Peyton and was always shown as someone who is awesome made me even more annoyed at her. If there is something I hate in writing and TV shows is when they make their main character so awesome and don't want to admit that the character is flawed as anyone else. This is what bothers me. If Brooke had done that everyone would call her for it, but because it's Peyton she is not. Annoys me to no end. For me it's still the same.

That doesn't make her a bad person of course. Just those moments were frustrating for me to watch. It's not how I wanted the things to get resolved. This is of course my problem not Mark's. For people who liked it they continued watching it in Season 6. And people like me stopped and decided to use Season 4 finale as the series finale. It worked for me and at that point I was more satisfied with all characters because in Season 5 I was annoyed also with Haley and Nathan and I usually love them. If it came to point where I disagree with my favorite couple in the show then something wasn't going OK for me.

[ds44]

Other than the Library episode I didn't find Peyton as bitchy towards Lindsay. They had very few interactions and she mostly kept her distance. Yeah, she was mean in the library, but she was also hurt. I didn't care that much about Lindsay cause I found her to be fake. Guest STar or not. Honestly, if S5 turned you off of peyton you prob weren't really a fan in the first place. Haley annoyed me in S2, but I didn't hate her for it or get turned off the character. Same with Nathan in S2 and later S5.

[jediwands]

4.19

- Karen not believing Lucas about Dan is horrible. Ahhhhh

- YAY for Peyton getting that internship.

- Thank God the principal allowed Haley do to the valedictorian speech.

- I love the Peyton/Brooke friendship again!

- Oh Karen, you suck in this one taking Dan's side. Even after Lucas told Karen the story with Abby involved she still said he needed help psychologically.

- Hated the lack of Lucas/Peyton in this one. There wasn't ANY Lucas/Peyton in the last one either. However, the one scene they had was great. I love how he kissed her and the teasing banter back and forth. He is supportive of the internship, of course he is. But you can tell that rough times are ahead for them. You can feel it. Oh well, they are meant to be so bring it!

- Love the Lucas/Haley best friend moment and of course a best friend should take up an entire page in a yearbook.

- What Mouth did for Jimmy was so amazing.

- You can pick up that soul-matey vibe between Lucas/Peyton. Peyton knows something's very wrong with Lucas right now. Her soul's unsettled because his is.

- I like how the camera pans upward as Mouth's talking with Mrs. Edwards demonstrating this spiritual type of Energy with Jimmy looking over them.

- CMM did an excellent job in that last scene as Lucas confronts Dan.

[jediwands]

Guys, we actually don't need spoiler tags, Betty has said as much so we're cool.

Originally Posted by Shu I gave 0 craps about Lindsay. She was so boring and self-righteous. I was glad Peyton got in her face, but that was due to the fake-niceness of Lindsay. I thought it was hilarious that Haley sided with someone she knew for two years over her own friend. According to Haley, Peyton wasn't just a random girl, but someone SHE considered a friend, but she certainly didn't act that way. I wouldn't feel that way if the writers hadn't gone around acting like PH were friends outside of Lucas. I was so here for the angst and Peyton throwing the books. Lucas bailed on them so easily all because she wasn't ready to rush to the alter at 19. As for Lindsay whatever girl was the boys editor she SHOULD have known what her ass was getting into.

Those are my thoughts too. You summed up my thoughts on Haley perfectly as well.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by ds44 (View Post) Other than the Library episode I didn't find Peyton as bitchy towards Lindsay. They had very few interactions and she mostly kept her distance. Yeah, she was mean in the library, but she was also hurt. I didn't care that much about Lindsay cause I found her to be fake. Guest STar or not. Honestly, if S5 turned you off of peyton you prob weren't really a fan in the first place. Haley annoyed me in S2, but I didn't hate her for it or get turned off the character. Same with Nathan in S2 and later S5.

Precisely how I feel! Exactly!

Shelby, I agree with all your thoughts. Only difference is you didn't hate Lindsey but I did. Otherwise, we're in sync.

I know it's bad but I laughed during that library scene. I did. I just wasn't buying this Mary Sue drama. No thanks. I didn't care.

[everwoodfan52]

Guys, we actually don't need spoiler tags, Betty has said as much so we're cool.

Yes...seriously...no more spoiler tags. I am a big girl and I can handle it.

Looks like we are in agreement about this episode, Michelle.

CMM did an excellent job in that last scene as Lucas confronts Dan.

I just don't like the idea that Lucas would consider using a gun. I am afraid to watch the next episode....

[cowgirl08]

It's just part of the process of the characters figuring themselves out. They lash out sometimes, with Peyton I always saw it as a sign of her really caring about something. She didn't cause drama for dramas sake, she was above that. But if Peyton got worked up about something enough to take a stand? Right or wrong. You damn well knew it was something that was important to her.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by ds44 (View Post) Other than the Library episode I didn't find Peyton as bitchy towards Lindsay. They had very few interactions and she mostly kept her distance. Yeah, she was mean in the library, but she was also hurt. I didn't care that much about Lindsay cause I found her to be fake. Guest STar or not. Honestly, if S5 turned you off of peyton you prob weren't really a fan in the first place. Haley annoyed me in S2, but I didn't hate her for it or get turned off the character. Same with Nathan in S2 and later S5.

Season 5 had problems beyond Peyton like I said. I didn't like the Naley story as well . And that was huge reason for me to get turned off by the show.

I actually liked Lindsay enough. For a guest star. I found her nice. I knew that she won't be the girl for Lucas, but I was neutral to her. I knew that she had some purpose and it wasn't to get married to Lucas.

I've always liked Naley more than Leyton so yes in this sense Peyton wasn't my favorite character from the show. Haley was my favorite character. I know that not all people like her, but I have always related to her the most which is why I like her. I do see why people will find her annoying though. She had some specific traits that are annoying for some people. On second place it would be Lucas. He was awesome friend. Not the best guy when it comes to the love department, but as a friend, brother and son he was awesome. On third place it would be Nathan. While I can't relate to him I like the guy he turned out to be and the way he changed (yes it wasn't realistic to change that fast, but I liked the change in him). Then it was Peyton. She is nice girl, but the drama in her life was too much for me. There was always something to make her moody. She had great smile, but I rarely got to see her. There was always something to make her sad. Brooke was the last out of the main five (not surprsing I would guess). I liked all 4 (except Brooke) characters more in the 4 seasons.

With Brooke it was the opposite. I loved her in Season 5 while in the early seasons she wasn't the likeable one. She was funny sometimes, but that's it.

Yes I didn't like Nathan in Season 5. I think that he was beyond selfish and irresponsible given the fact that he had a family. He acted liked basketball was the only thing that mattered. I get that he was depressed, but to ignore his own son.

I do think that Haley overreacted as well to the whole Jamie incident though. It wasn't Nathan's fault and she took it on him which wasn't fair at all.

And Lucas - well Michelle explained what he did wrong in Season 5.

I guess it was too much for me at once to see all the characters doing things that I disagree with. There was no one to balance out for me.

[everwoodfan52]

I guess it was too much for me at once to see all the characters doing things that I disagree with. There was no one to balance out for me.

Koni, do you plan on watching the rest of the seasons for the first time?

[ds44]

Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post) It's just part of the process of the characters figuring themselves out. They lash out sometimes, with Peyton I always saw it as a sign of her really caring about something. She didn't cause drama for dramas sake, she was above that. But if Peyton got worked up about something enough to take a stand? Right or wrong. You damn well knew it was something that was important to her.

exactly she is so laid back and sometimes even passive, so that if she is getting angry you know its a big deal.

Koni, fair enough. I was always more about leyton. If I was a Naley fan first I prob would have been annoyed too. I love haley not as much as Peyton, but I def like her. I'd prob rank it like Peyton, Haley, Lucas, Karen, Nathan

[secretk]

Originally Posted by ds44 (View Post) exactly she is so laid back and sometimes even passive, so that if she is getting angry you know its a big deal.

I actually think that because she was passive she tended to get more intense when she is angry. I used to be like that as a kid. I was passive and a lot of times I would be silent instead of saying out loud that something is annoying me. And then when the anger came over it was so bad . I was afraid of myself. I learnt to be more active and get in the open how I feel right immediately to not go there.

Koni, fair enough. I was always more about leyton. If I was a Naley fan first I prob would have been annoyed too. I love haley not as much as Peyton, but I def like her. I'd prob rank it like Peyton, Haley, Lucas, Karen, Nathan

Both Peyton and Haley were good and nice girls in general. Both of them had done mistakes. The thing is that Haley is closer to my personality. Except the part where she forgives easily. I don't know if I can be like that. I haven't been in such situations in my life so I don't know how I would react. I used to think that I am not able to forgive, but I realized that I can. So who knows. At any rate I have the geeky part of Haley and the music passion. And I agreed with her way of thinking in general.

Yes Karen was awesome mother. One of the few good parents in OTH. Not that Peyton's dad was bad, but he was absent you know. Brooke's mother is a bitch. Nathan's parents are drug addict and killer so I wouldn't call them nice. So yeah Karen was just awesome mother. It always blew my mind how she could find time to work and support Lucas and still be his mother and friend as well. I mean there are parents you know that live together and have no time for their kids beccause of work and she did it alone. That's a mother!

Betty I'm not sure. Season 5 is one that I don't want to watch. Season 6 I started, but I think that I watched only the first episode and then stopped. I know that Season 7 is hard for Haley (I've watched some scenes in youtube) and Leyton are not there so there is that.

I kind of watched only the Naley scenes after Season 5. I just search in youtube and watch them. There are some nice moments there. I'm not sure that I will find those seasons interesting. I might try, but I'm honestly not sure how I would feel about them.