[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) I absolutely adore the Haley/Nathan relationship.

Me too! I loved when they walked away from the press conference holding hands. They were two hearts holding strong together. It was beautiful.

The community bed!! Bedrooms/beds/ houses without borders are plentiful in this town.

It did suck, but he did it for Haley and Nathan. That's the kind of guy he is.

Yes!

Of course he did the right thing! I think you're caught up...I haven't watched 4.19 yet.

Sweet! Sorry I kept you waiting! I am going to watch 4.19 now. How about you? When will you watch?

[everwoodfan52]

Sweet! Sorry I kept you waiting! I am going to watch 4.19 now. How about you? When will you watch?

I just watched. OMG!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) I just watched. OMG!

I haven't seen it yet but know what you're talking about because I've seen it in the past, bits and pieces.

I know, it's all out in the open now. Dan is busted and Karen and her pregnancy are happening and nothing is ever going to be the same!

I kind of dread the last episodes of season 4 because you already know that there's a time jump and Lucas/Peyton have to work their way back to each other in season 5. I almost want things to remain in season 4 as is because I am not looking forward to them being apart in season 5. Patricia is right, the finale of 4 was tremendous. The series could have ended right then. Wouldn't have had season 6 though which is what I will be hoping for the second season 5 enters my screen as a diehard Lucas/Peyton fan.

We are eating/celebrating my dad's birthday so in a bit I will watch 4.19. Keep watching the episodes!

[everwoodfan52]

I know, it's all out in the open now. Dan is busted and Karen and her pregnancy are happening and nothing is ever going to be the same

!

He's busted, but he's not. I am absolutely furious with Karen!! I am furious that she is taking Dan's side and not even giving her son the benefit of the doubt. She knows Lucas. When has he ever exhibited signs of being emotionally disturbed?! Never.

I kind of dread the last episodes of season 4 because you already know that there's a time jump and Lucas/Peyton have to work their way back to each other in season 5.

Is any part of season 5 good?

What I didn't like in this episode was the lack of Peyton/Lucas interaction. It was minimal. They just got together and you can see they're going to be apart again.

What Mouth did for Jimmy was absolutely beautiful. He is a good friend.

I can't stand Principal Turner. I don't believe he has ever made a good decision. And...he lets the parents and board run the school.

Nathan and Haley going to bat for each other.....beautiful!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) He's busted, but he's not. I am absolutely furious with Karen!! I am furious that she is taking Dan's side and not even giving her son the benefit of the doubt. She knows Lucas. When has he ever exhibited signs of being emotionally disturbed?! Never.

This is when any sympathy I've had for Dan goes out the window. If he really was changing at this point he wouldn't have done that to Lucas. He would have admitted his guilt instead of trying to get Karen to turn on her son, their son.

Is any part of season 5 good?

I watched bits and pieces so I bet Patricia and the others can answer this better. I hate who Lucas is with. You might not mind her but she annoys me. She plays the victim like Brooke but in a different way. There's nothing wrong with her but that's the point. She's portrayed as this Mary Sue. No thanks.

What I didn't like in this episode was the lack of Peyton/Lucas interaction. It was minimal. They just got together and you can see they're going to be apart again.

I hate this too. They weren't even interacting in 4.18 either.

What Mouth did for Jimmy was absolutely beautiful. He is a good friend. I can't stand Principal Turner. I don't believe he has ever made a good decision. And...he lets the parents and board run the school. Nathan and Haley going to bat for each other.....beautiful!

Forgot this stuff but will check it out when I see the episode!

[cowgirl08]

Season 5 is worth watching because of the other stories. Without spoiling what one of the main ones is that's all I can really say.

As for LP, I don't really mind the angst. In fact, I like it (Season 3 of Chuck is one of my favorites because of you got to see the characters realize how much they mean to each other). To me duh Peyton and Lucas are end game so watching them apart can be rewarding too because you get to see the longing and the journey back. I know some just want to see them together and happy since they have both been through so much crap but for me I enjoy it.

Mitch I think you will enjoy their story watching it in full this time. There's a lot of little things you can pick up along the way that still show their connection, I am 4 episodes into season 5 and have already noted at least five or six of those moments. There's also an epic tie-back moment to a special LP scene in the 2nd episode (maybe 3rd...).

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post) Season 5 is worth watching because of the other stories. Without spoiling what one of the main ones is that's all I can really say. As for LP, I don't really mind the angst. In fact, I like it (Season 3 of Chuck is one of my favorites because of you got to see the characters realize how much they mean to each other). To me duh Peyton and Lucas are end game so watching them apart can be rewarding too because you get to see the longing and the journey back. I know some just want to see them together and happy since they have both been through so much crap but for me I enjoy it. Mitch I think you will enjoy their story watching it in full this time. There's a lot of little things you can pick up along the way that still show their connection, I am 4 episodes into season 5 and have already noted at least five or six of those moments. There's also an epic tie-back moment to a special LP scene in the 2nd episode (maybe 3rd...).

Awesome! You're right, season 5 still shows they're meant to be, all the more. In fact, through Lindsey we really see this plain as day. I just have a problem with Lucas taking issue with Peyton's "Someday" to the proposal. His walking out, pulling a hissy fit annoys me. She never wanted to break up, she never said no, she just meant laterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, not right then and what the hell was wrong with that? They were still young! Sure, they were ancient compared to Naley lol but hello, in this day and age, they were very young when Lucas proposed. I just frequented a bunch of past and still active messages boards talking about the issue and I have yet to read someone say Peyton was in the wrong for the someday. I'm reading lots of Lucas bashing for the entire situation, too.

So yes, I always took issue with Lucas so angry over Peyton's VERY realistic "someday" to his proposal. The entire storyline bothers me because it didn't have to be. But oh well, it all works out in the end and like you said, there's other storylines too in season 5 that make it worth it.

[ds44]

S5 has the best lp angst

Spoiler:

cause like who cares about horse-face I mean Lindsay. They weren't trying to sell her as Peyton's bff so they went straight up OTT with the LP angst.

I also love how Lucas was just this butthurt little baby but there wasn't a single moment of doubt that Peyton was the one. I also adore the acting in that season. I don't know it was the right kind of angst for this angstwhore.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by ds44 (View Post) S5 has the best lp angst Spoiler: cause like who cares about horse-face I mean Lindsay. They weren't trying to sell her as Peyton's bff so they went straight up OTT with the LP angst.

Spoiler:

lol I remember the nicknames. I mentioned the one person who never saw the show outside of season 5 and on and thinks Peyton was in the wrong while Lindsey was this heavenly creature. Drives me crazy because you can't say that without seeing the first four seasons!

You're right, they never meant for those two to be best friends and I actually love how Peyton doesn't make any excuse for who she is either.

I also love how Lucas was just this butthurt little baby but there wasn't a single moment of doubt that Peyton was the one. I also adore the acting in that season. I don't know it was the right kind of angst for this angstwhore.

Yes, this is the ONE storyline I really shake my head at Lucas over. He is so wrong given how it all went down. He left her like a crying little boy because Peyton didn't give him the "perfect" answer he expected. So he runs and acts like what most guys do... they have to move on and go to their next girlfriend without thinking it through.

I am also not really a fan of how the others respond to the situation either. I get it that Haley's Lucas' best friend first but this is the one time I felt like Haley should have stopped already with siding with his current significant other and actually based a response on what literally happened. Her instant kissing up to Lindsey bothered me. If Haley thought about the entire situation, she would have realized who really needed the a$$ kicking and it wasn't Peyton, it was Lucas.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) Yes, this is the ONE storyline I really shake my head at Lucas over. He is so wrong given how it all went down. He left her like a crying little boy because Peyton didn't give him the "perfect" answer he expected. So he runs and acts like what most guys do... they have to move on and go to their next girlfriend without thinking it through.

While I do think that Peyton was right I don't blame Lucas for moving on. He wanted the next step and she wasn't ready. He wasn't able to wait for. At least he thought so. There would have been no point for him at this moment to wait for her. He would actually get more frustrated with her. I do think that he had to get away a bit from this.

I am also not really a fan of how the others respond to the situation either. I get it that Haley's Lucas' best friend first but this is the one time I felt like Haley should have stopped already with siding with his current significant other and actually based a response on what literally happened. Her instant kissing up to Lindsey bothered me. If Haley thought about the entire situation, she would have realized who really needed the a$$ kicking and it wasn't Peyton, it was Lucas.

I sided with Haley 100 %. Lucas asked Peyton and she said no. Lucas decided to try to move on. Then suddenly Peyton gets like a signal from space 2 years later and decides that she wants Lucas and he has to go Sure hell yes. No idea how Peyton thought that this would be OK. If I were Lucas I would be pissed. And she was a bitch sometimes to Lindsay and she had no right to be. Lindsay was not to blame that Lucas decided to use her to forget Peyton. Also there is a way to do things and sneaking around is not the way Peyton. You did it twice while Lucas was with Brooke. It wasn't nice then and it wasn't nice 4 years later.

It's the reason why I hate Season 5. I have no problems with the angst itself, but the way it was resolved annoys me to no end. I for sure didn't agree with a lot of the thigns Peyton did. Actually Peyton annoyed me in Season 5. It wasn't supposed to be like that, but it ended like that. This is why Season 5 didn't work for me and why I stopped watching. This is why I pretend that Season 4 is the series finale and nothing happened afterwards.

Then again I also never hated Lindsay. I did know that she wasn't the right for Lucas. She was nice, but she wasn't the one and it was apparent.

There is something I blame Lucas for -

Spoiler:

the fact that he proposed to Lindsay with Peyton's ring . That was lame Lucas.

Overall I had no problem with the relationship he had with Lindsay, but the other thing was just not right.

[jediwands]

I have an issue with Haley showing a pattern of siding with whoever is in Lucas' life at that moment without seeing the big picture. She hasn't always been right for sure.

And my issue with Lucas is what he did when he just left her there like a pathetic, immature little boy. Left her while she was sleeping.

Yes, some people didn't like Peyton's actions because it comes back to what they agree or disagree with regarding the proposal. We don't live in the stone age. She never said no to the proposal, she said someday and later. Lucas threw a fit and ran away which I found utterly ridiculous. Again, it's how he left her. Also, he had no business kissing Peyton or doing the ring thing or writing a BOOK about her if he was over her. This is on Lucas if you ask me. Anything Lindsey got hurt from was not due to Peyton, it was Lucas for being lame enough to think he was over Peyton when he clearly wasn't. So Lucas never moved on in the first place. That's the entire point. He might have had a right to move on if that's what he actually did but that's not close to what he did. He never moved on.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) While I do think that Peyton was right I don't blame Lucas for moving on. He wanted the next step and she wasn't ready. He wasn't able to wait for. At least he thought so. There would have been no point for him at this moment to wait for her. He would actually get more frustrated with her. I do think that he had to get away a bit from this.

He never moved on though is the point. If you're going to move on then you don't kiss her again, do the ring thing, write the book. It was all about Peyton. He never moved on and that's why he had no business being with Lindsey. Lucas is at fault. He did the guy thing, goes to the next warm body and then "settles" on someone else to heal your broken heart since you're too weak to do it yourself.

I couldn't stand Lindsey. She was a Mary Sue. I couldn't have cared less about her father, that was all set up for drama.

So maybe if Lucas would have faced up to the fact that he wasn't over Peyton but his pride was hurt then he wouldn't have gotten together with someone else he claimed he was super serious about in the first place. Lucas' actions set up this drama.

Oh well, I'm glad a large chunk of fans have my thoughts according to the sites I visited. At least I don't feel like I'm in the minority or that I missed something.

Anyway, moving on, watching 4.19 now.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) I have an issue with Haley showing a pattern of siding with whoever is in Lucas' life at that moment without seeing the big picture. She hasn't always been right for sure.

For me she was. Actually as friend of Lucas she has to support his choices no matter if she likes them or not. And Haley protected Lindsay from Peyton because Peyton didn't treat her right. And she indeed didn't and she had no right to do so because Lindsay was not the one to blame for anything.

And my issue with Lucas is what he did when he just left her there like a pathetic, immature little boy. Left her while she was sleeping.

Male ego . When they don't hear yes they think that it's NO . It's like they operate in binary way - it's either yes or no. Nothing in between. I do agree with that I just don't think that this justifies Peyton's actions. Actually cross my first post - both Lucas and Peyton annoyed me in Season 5. Yes now I remember. I didn't like Lucas actions as much as I didn't like Peyton's.

Yes, some people didn't like Peyton's actions because it comes back to what they agree or disagree with regarding the proposal. We don't live in the stone age. She never said no to the proposal, she said someday and later. Lucas threw a fit and ran away which I found utterly ridiculous. Again, it's how he left her. Also, he had no business kissing Peyton or doing the ring thing or writing a BOOK about her if he was over her. This is on Lucas if you ask me. Anything Lindsey got hurt from was not due to Peyton, it was Lucas for being lame enough to think he was over Peyton when he clearly wasn't. So Lucas never moved on in the first place. That's the entire point. He might have had a right to move on if that's what he actually did but that's not close to what he did. He never moved on.

For me it's not about Lucas it's about Peyton. I didn't like her actions as a person. She crossed a line and if I were Lindsay I would put her in her place so fast she wouldn't see it comming. If there is something I hate are people who treat me like that. I seriously hate this in real life and it's this attitude that brings my most dangearous side.

I'm not talking about the hurting in general. I'm talking about the way Peyton talked to Lindsay and how treated her. I hated this specifically. There is an episode filmed in the school where for me Peyton crossed the line.

That doesn't mean that Lucas had moved on. He didn't and we all knew it. I just hated her attitude in specific occasions. That doesn't mean that I sided with Lucas or I thought that Lindsay is the one for him. It just means that I don't like people who behave like that. However Lucas' wrong decision don't justify Peyton's behavior. And the other way around of course. The fact that Peyton said that she wasn't ready for wedding right then doesn't justify Lucas behavior.

However Lucas had started to annoy me when he twice decided to go for Brooke and then to chose Peyton so in this sense I was already disappointed in him while with Peyton I generally liked her except very few specific cases. Maybe because of this I was more disappointed in her in Season 5.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) For me she was. Actually as friend of Lucas she has to support his choices no matter if she likes them or not. And Haley protected Lindsay from Peyton because Peyton didn't treat her right. And she indeed didn't and she had no right to do so because Lindsay was not the one to blame for anything.

Haley was also Peyton's friend, too. Haley knew the score.

Male ego . When they don't hear yes they think that it's NO . It's like they operate in binary way - it's either yes or no. Nothing in between. I do agree with that I just don't think that this justifies Peyton's actions. Actually cross my first post - both Lucas and Peyton annoyed me in Season 5. Yes now I remember. I didn't like Lucas actions as much as I didn't like Peyton's. For me it's not about Lucas it's about Peyton. I didn't like her actions as a person. She crossed a line and if I were Lindsay I would put her in her place so fast she wouldn't see it comming. If there is something I hate are people who treat me like that. I seriously hate this in real life and it's this attitude that brings my most dangearous side. I'm not talking about the hurting in general. I'm talking about the way Peyton talked to Lindsay and how treated her. I hated this specifically. There is an episode filmed in the school where for me Peyton crossed the line. That doesn't mean that Lucas had moved on. He didn't and we all knew it. I just hated her attitude in specific occasions. That doesn't mean that I sided with Lucas or I thought that Lindsay is the one for him. It just means that I don't like people who behave like that. However Lucas' wrong decision don't justify Peyton's behavior. And the other way around of course. The fact that Peyton said that she wasn't ready for wedding right then doesn't justify Lucas behavior. However Lucas had started to annoy me when he twice decided to go for Brooke and then to chose Peyton so in this sense I was already disappointed in him while with Peyton I generally liked her except very few specific cases. Maybe because of this I was more disappointed in her in Season 5.

I couldn't have cared less about that episode in school when poor Mary Sue Lindsey got her feelings hurt. I don't care about her father. I don't. I don't care if that's harsh but I won't fall for the manipulation Mark was selling. Mark wanted cheap drama so he set up Peyton in that episode so Lindsey the Mary Sue got hurt. That's all it was. BS. Any hurt Lindsey felt was Lucas' fault for being with her when he really ultimately wanted Peyton. I also wonder how Lucas or Nathan would have felt about having to hang around one of Haley's or Peyton's current BFs knowing they still had something together. I would wager a strong guess they wouldn't have been nice or even cordial to them. But because Peyton's a woman she isn't "expected" to act that way so of course people react and take the bait. Not me. I also call that BS. She reacted like a normal person would have. That's life.

[cowgirl08]

Originally Posted by ds44 (View Post) S5 has the best lp angst Spoiler: cause like who cares about horse-face I mean Lindsay. They weren't trying to sell her as Peyton's bff so they went straight up OTT with the LP angst.

Spoiler:

YES! How Peyton obsesses over Lindsey being there and the plant and everything Lindsey without it being brought up by someone else to me is the ultimate sign that she is as jealous as you can be. All the while trying to hide it and pretend he wasn't a part of the reason why she returned.

Oh and when Lucas randomly gets inspiration to right again after two years when Peyton comes back? Umm yeah Lindsey your worries are founded, just get out before you get hurt even worse.