[Butterfly85]

I usually don't talk about D/J cause I literally just don't care but I never saw them as soulmates when they were usually apart and the few times they did get back together, they didn't even last longer than a few weeks if that. Plus, Dawson was a possessive and suffocating douchebag that viewed Joey as his property. When they fought he also said some very low, mean spirited, personal things to hurt her. He also had this bizarre obsession with Joey's virginity then when they finally slept together once, he lied to her about having a girlfriend. What a beautiful way to reunite for two seconds. They had no chemistry and were a toxic relationship. It also didn't help that they never evolved or grew up in the relationship either, one of the many reasons they never worked out or ended up together.

[JJH85]

Although I was routing for them in Season 1, I never really saw any chemistry between them and then when they got together the second time I was thinking "ok good, they are going to get their happy ending", but still didn't see any chemistry between them. It wasn't until I saw Pacey and Joey together as friends in S3 that I realized how much there was a lack of chemistry between Dawson and Joey and that ended any chance of my routing for them again.

As far as soulmates go, I am still not convinced that they were soulmates. The only real connection they had was their ritual of watching movies together, but I felt that was more Dawson's interest than Joey's and when she took an interest in something other than movies, he wasn't in least bit interested.

I still feel the real soulmates in the show were Jack and Jen and maybe even a little bit of Mitch and Gail, but you won't sell me on Dawson and Joey being soulmates. Dawson and Joey will always have a connection because they grew up together, I still have a connection with guys I grew up with and hung around with even when I don't see them for months or years on end. Friendship is all that they really had going on with them.

************************

I was pissed when Aunt Gwen interrupted that incredible Pacey/Joey kiss and I was not impressed with the lecture considering Dawson and Joey were NOT a couple when it took place.

[SweetSymphony]

The show tried really hard to make them 'soulmates' but words can only do so much .. actions count more. And Dawson and Joey's actions made them seem more like a tortured friendship.

I don't completely hate their relationship - there are some moments of their friendship I can appreciate but there are specific things that really annoyed me. Like Dawson asking Joey if she and Pacey had sex..like why do you need to know that bro? And the fact that Joey couldn't be honest with him..is it b/c she fears how he will react, he will take his friendship away..it was like she's walking on egg shells around him.

[Butterfly85]

^^^ITA. I said before that is really wierded me out that Dawson asked Joey if she slept with Pacey. WTF? None of your damn business. It's also weird and rude when it's an ex boyfriend but mostly friend. I agree she walked on eggshells around him. Her lying was stupid but I think she did it cause she knew he would blow up and not want to be friends anymore (which is what he did to her in S3 when he found out she was with Pacey) and considering he has an immature, selfish overreaction to everything, who can blame her for feeling that way. I still think she was an idiot to do that though, he was going to eventually know they were sleeping together when they were in a relationship. So why hide it SMH. She should of either told the truth or just said it's none of his business, which it wasn't.

I thought they were cute in S1 but by S2 that all went away (especially when everything with them that season was EXTREMELY immature and overdramatic) I never saw chemistry between them, then yeah you see Pacey and Joey and it really showed D/J had no chemistry. He's always come across as her brother to me, never saw soulmates either. Even though the ten kiss is still my favorite kiss, I do hate that Gwen made is shorter. I also find it ironic she was trying to put Dawson and Joey back together in that episode when she was talking about being in a relationship that was predictable and bored her, then she found this man that made her feel alive for the first time. She couldn't tell that was what was going on with Pacey and Joey? You think she would know what Joey is going through more than anyone, then near the end she is still trying to push Dawson towards Joey knowing he's heading for disappointment cause Joey has fallen for Pacey? Will never make sense.

[SweetSymphony]

Originally Posted by Butterfly85 (View Post) I also find it ironic she was trying to put Dawson and Joey back together in that episode when she was talking about being in a relationship that was predictable and bored her, then she found this man that made her feel alive for the first time.

Totally agree about finding it ironic but I think her plan backfired b/c when when Joey told Pacey that when his arm brushed up against her in bed, it made her feel alive. So I think it's during Gwen's speech that Joey is kinda admitting the truth to herself about what she feels for Pacey.

I'm watching Merry Mayhem (Season 6, Episode 10) - and I'm listening to Joey's convo with Dawson and I'm just like how is this love!?

Joey: "I think sometimes it's easy for me to kinda hate you b/c I know that you're out there and if anything ever happened to me or If I ever really needed you, you would be there for me."

So basically she's telling him that she hates him but she'll take his company when she really needs it.

[PJ_always87]

I often wonder if season 2 went down the way it did because the show runners realized they put them together too fast, and then fumbled for an excuse to keep them apart. Perhaps he also recognized they didn't have the sparkle to sustain a long lasting relationship like Pacey did in season 2, so he had to separate them before the audience noticed they were terrible together. Unfortunately season 3 transpired and it killed any interest people had in a DJ reunion.

Originally Posted by Butterfly85 (View Post) I thought they were cute in S1 but by S2 that all went away (especially when everything with them that season was EXTREMELY immature and overdramatic) I never saw chemistry between them, then yeah you see Pacey and Joey and it really showed D/J had no chemistry. He's always come across as her brother to me, never saw soulmates either.

Even in season 1+2 whatever failed chemistry they have, which isn't much looking back, is immediately drawn to the forefront when contrasted with the excellent chemistry of PJ. However, when I do my re-watches it becomes more transparent that they never had the sexual chemistry they should have had to be a lead couple.

It is almost unanimous that there is a serious problem with the chemistry between DJ, and I feel that contributes to the familial love that they managed to convince the audience of, maybe, but not the sexual love we were supposed to believe made them transcendent. When Joey is shown to be putting more passion and attraction into her romantic scenes with Pacey, it starts to make a mockery of their lead ship.

What I saw as creepy was exactly what you said; his fixation with her virginity. I honestly believe he could have handled a PJ relationship if not for the fact that Joey slept with Pacey. Somehow he managed to delude himself into believing that after a year of dating Pacey, Joey would just easily break up with him and then they would lose their virginity together. I honestly think if PJ had not had sex first, he would have forgiven Pacey and Joey. However, the fact that he lost in that arena made it in unforgiveable in his eyes.

[Butterfly85]

I agree, I never saw any chemistry with D/J. Especially sexual chemistry, like I said it's like Joey was kissing her brother. I do think Dawson's last hope was that Joey would lose her virginity to him instead of Pacey, and when that didn't happen it shattered his self absorbed world even more after he already saw more than once how much Joey loves Pacey. It's even more ridiculous now that I'm older, Joey is in a serious and mature relationship with someone she loves for a year. So you think she's going to just dump the love of her life to have a V card losing fling with you? Mind your business and worry about your own relationship. Dawson is a delusional loser. At the end of the day, Dawson/Joey is a suffocating and toxic relationship. Dawson always wanted Joey to wait around for him when he wanted her and already had his fun, then if she lived her life he tried to guilt trip and blackmail the hell out of her. I find their dependent relationship even more disturbing and toxic now that I'm older.

[PJ_always87]

One of the reasons why I think the ratings may have been failing after S2 is because they tried to center a triangle around Dawson. He did not have good chemistry with Jen or Joey, and so the audience struggle to wonder why they should even care. I know I did not root for DJ at any point in time, not even in season 1. To be fair I did start watching the series out of order, so perhaps I am biased. However, I never thought that DJ was a couple to root for. In Pacey's words they spent 15 years watching PG movies (this is is a hyperbole since it's probably 10 years) followed by pretending to be soulmates. We didn't really see why as the audience we should care to root for them. All we saw was through the lens of Joey's eyes, and perhaps some people felt sorry for her because he was oblivious. I didn't feel sorry for her because I thought she came across like a bitch. I thought it was obvious they brought out the worst in each other from the onset.

What do you think about the idea that Joey lost her romantic feelings for Dawson early season 2? I honestly think he manipulated her into a relationship that she no longer wanted the second time around. He used her poor relationship with her father to swoop in and save the day, so that she would remember why she wanted him around. However, since he had been harassing her all season about getting back together, even though she wanted to find herself outside of him, she realized if she wanted back into his life she had to be his girlfriend. I think only after he forced her to turn her father in did she realize how toxic he was, and she could no longer endure him as a boyfriend.

IMO early season 3 she tried to seduce Dawson because she figured that he was sleaze ball after seeing Eve, and thought that the only way to be with Dawson was through sex. I don't think she wanted to, and even he had the realization that she didn't want it. By the way she was seriously unsexy in that scene. It was so cringe when she was like "I can be sexual Dawson," and I kept thinking not with him you can't.

[Butterfly85]

lol This is the most attention I've given to Dawson but you have so many good points I rarely touch on lol. I never thought of it that way, but I can see Joey being over him in S2. After the beginning of their short fling, the thrill was just gone. Like I said, Joey put more into her doomed relationship with Jack then Dawson in S2. She told Dawson she wanted to find herself then instantly jumped into a relationship with Jack. She kept showing over and over again she just wasn't that into Dawson. It seemed when they tried to be in a relationship again at the end of S2 it's like Joey was just like "Eh, okay" and settled back into familiarity. Ugh, that scene in "Like a Virgin" has always been cringy. She breaks into Dawson's room to try and have a quickie with Dawson while a wild party is going on downstairs all cause she thought she would be more appealing and sexy to Dawson if she strips for him, cause she saw him like like an animal in heat with Eve. That would of been a HORRIBLE way for Joey to lose her virginity. It was just embarrassing as hell.

[PJ_always87]

Haha, I was deeply embarrassed for her. The look on her face when she said she could be sexual was unfortunately very pathetic. I always found it ridiculous in FTT that Dawson was telling Joey that he could never have sex with someone he didn't love, and neither could she, while several episodes before we saw that Dawson crashed his boat because he was receiving oral sex from Eve.

The thing is he was relieved it was Jen that Pacey was hooking up with, so that he could continue to look down upon both of them from his Ivory tower for doing the same thing that he had done several episodes before.

[Butterfly85]

lol Exactly. He got that from Eve causing him to crash his boat at Joey's job then was caught half naked on stage with her at the school pep rally. As usual Dawson is a delusional, self absorbed, self righteous hypocrite. I'm glad Pacey was there to call him out on it a couple of times *claps* Practice what you preach or STFU.

[PJ_always87]

I just realized TLD came full circle. Dawson told Joey that she cannot have Pacey as her boyfriend and him as a consolation prize but in a round about way that is what happens.

In the end she recognized she did not want to have any sexual and/or romantic relationship with Dawson. She just wanted to be friends while she shared her romantic experiences with Pacey.

I honestly feel that the only reason why he was able to get away with such a line in season 3 is because Pacey was a question mark with Joey. She saw he was wonderful with Andie but she did not have a close relationship with him to know if the gamble was worth losing whatever she had with Dawson. Life experience happened and she recognized that the sexual/romantic feelings she had with Pacey was something distinct from the lifelong friendship she had with Dawson, something she started to recognize in TLD. Except in the series finale it was permanent and so Dawson was not a consolation prize; he was straight up just permanently friend zoned while she lives out the rest of her life with Pacey.

[Dawson creek fan]

These two were bad together. If they wanted Dawson and Joey to be endgame they did a really bad job showing us why they should be. All that breaking up and running back to each other when things didn’t work out in there individuals lives was just unhealthy I also think Joey was never in love with Dawson in season one I think she mistook it for love when it really was a crush and Dawson only wanted her when she was moving on or getting ready to go to Paris. I also think he said I love you to her just to get her to stay with him in season two. He never really loved her maybe as a friend but that it.

[Butterfly85]

I agree. They were very toxic and Dawson was always manipulative towards Joey in an attempt to make her stay with him (Shown the most in S3 when he blackmailed and guilt tripped her to settle for his friendship) I also agree they did a bad job acting like they were the be all to end all as "soulmates" when they shattered like glass five minutes in every time they attempted being together. It was a mess and clearly not meant to be.

[Dawson creek fan]

I just don’t get why the writers thought breaking them up and getting back together so many time would have people like them more. If anything I would think it would turn people off because they would get sick and tired of it and they did.

I know some people said when she was giving the speech in the series final about running never ready for it was about Dawson and Joey but it wasn’t. When they first broke up she realized she didn’t have anything outside of Dawson and that she didn’t know herself. If you don’t know yourself or love yourself first the relationship would never last long. The second time was because he forced her to turn in her dad. Which I don’t think that was her running away from him. In season six she didn’t run away she was pissed of and realized it wasn’t right. I think that line was general in a since about love no matter who she was with. I think it also had something to do with her up bringing by not really seeing a healthy relationship. Besides her sister but even that Bodie wasn’t there all the time.