Couples - Carly && Freddie #7 | iCarly | Because We're Canon! - Page 10

dg31 · 12-25-2013, 04:25 PM

Love is...

Someone you can be yourself around - no matter what the world (and the Nickelodeon Slime Slingers) throw at you.

Venetia · 01-15-2014, 03:40 PM

@IBelieveInMiracles: I agree with you.

credit:creddie-forever

@dg31: I hate to be a party pooper but I think that is inaccurate.

Sam & Cat is set in LA. Cat still goes to Hollywood Arts. Sam moved to LA. The show states that Sam takes classes online, we have actually seen references to that in episodes.

It does impact the endgame. If Freddie emerges as a romantic interest for Sam or even Cat, it means that Carly & Freddie did not end up together after the finale. They could have broken up or never have gotten together at all.

Therefore, Dan if he wanted to, could have undermined the perceived Creddie endgame from Creddie shippers because it would change the entire tone of the finale kiss. It would just mean that Carly kissed Freddie goodbye. Dan even pandered to Seddie shippers after the finale aired by implying that was the case.

I guess we have to see what it entails after that episode of Sam & Cat airs.

Edit: Okay, I am confused about Sam's age on Sam & Cat. Maybe she is 16 on that show and perhaps she was still 16 at the end of iCarly or they are trying to pass it off that way.

I mean, we got no confirmation if they were seniors or not on iCarly. I think the last age reference on iCarly was that Carly was sixteen right in an actual episode? Though that was before the final season. We know the series didn't operate on a traditional time frame. Logically, we would assume they were all 18 by the end of iCarly but maybe that was not the case.

I am confused because it implies Sam moves to LA after Carly moves to Italy....not after highschool ended. All the links stating the backstory of Sam & Cat tend to say the same thing.

Sam & Cat - Sam and Cat Wiki

I guess the actual episode where Freddie shows up might clear up the whole school/age question. Regardless, it does impact the endgame. A kiss does not seal a relationship. Dan could have easily retconned the obvious implications for Creddie on Sam & Cat.

IBelieveInMiracles · 01-15-2014, 09:39 PM

If Dan does destroy Creddie just to pander to Seddie again for the one episode Nathan's guesting on then he's just cruel. That is just a cruel thing to do.

dg31 · 01-18-2014, 04:51 PM

Actually, Venetia, it can't possibly be compatible with the parent shows.

Let's take Victorious: Tori started HA in her Sophomore year (Trina states in the Pilot that Andre is a 10th grader). The Great Ping Pong Scam states that the rest of the group have been there for two years (the scam started two years ago) so by that episode they are juniors. Then we have Prom Wrecker - Junior Prom.

A Christmas Tori is set after that episode (as is April Fool's Blank) so by then they MUST be seniors and, if the timeline was consistent, would have graduated around the end of the series. The characters are 18 - QED.

From the iCarly side (and personally I think they're the same age as the HA gang so this is immaterial): Carly says she and Sam are 9th Grade girls in iKiss (Series 2). In iPilot she said she was 13, in iMake Sam Girlier Sam is 15 so we can extrapolate and say series 3 was their 10th grade and series 4 was 11th grade. iOMG has the conclusion of their major projects and so is just before Ridgeway should have broken up for the summer and ended their junior year (even though they were still at school during the arc that sank the show..?)

iHalfoween is time-stamped at the end of April (six months before Halloween) and is therefore at the back end of their senior year. QED they, too, graduate just after the show ends.

Therefore, for Sam to be sixteen in S&C means that the show can in no way, shape or form be canon-compliant with the parent shows.

Venetia · 01-18-2014, 10:16 PM

@dg31: You have to understand that tv series don't operate on strict timeframes all of the time. You don't have a time stamp to officially declare what age they were.

You are missing the points I made earlier. It is the same issue with Victorious so you can't claim it is not compatible with the parent shows. Drake & Josh had the same issue with time frames/grades. Each season doesn't necessarily represent a year in their lives.

Take shows like Saved by the Bell and That's 70 Show for example. If people were operating on a year by year basis or going strictly by age references thrown out in episodes...the time frame would not make sense. We know that Jackie, Eric, and etc weren't in high school for more than six years. In fact, the series started with Jackie being a sophomore and the rest of them being juniors. They even had Prom episodes but still continued on with them still being in highschool for a long time. It took forever for the show to move the characters into college.

The fact is that time spans can be elongated on shows and fluctuate on writers whims. We had that issue on Glee before they finally decided to move certain characters on to college & etc. Lots of shows do this.

Each season doesn't necessarily represent a grade or a year in the lives of the characters. Shows drag out years and the time period when they are on school all of the time. Like on The Vampire Diaries, two seasons represented one year/grade for the characters.

It was NEVER confirmed on iCarly that Carly, Freddie, and Sam were 18 or seniors when the show ended. I know we all presumed that to be the case but that doesn't mean that was the case in Dan's view.

The series was relatively ambiguous about their ages. There were no references to graduation or senior prom or SAT's or it being their final year of high school in the final season of iCarly. They never officially had an 18th birthday.

So there are no time-stamps to declare as proof here on iCarly. Shows break continuity all of the time when it comes to ages and grades.

Honestly, if they had been seniors..it would have made sense for the finale episode to have the characters part ways after they graduated..but they had Carly moving to Italy to be with her dad.

credit:grindonmedrewmichaelchadwick247

I haven't watched that episode of Sam & Cat yet. I will watch a re-run later. I NEVER give Sam & Cat the ratings they need.

However, this implies the endgame was left open-ended. It makes it pretty clear that Carly and Freddie are not a couple. That they didn't become boyfriend and girlfriend at the end of iCarly. Dan is retconning and pandering.

dg31 · 01-19-2014, 06:44 AM

Or that he simply didn't tell his mother that they are dating which, given her reaction to his previous relationships, isn't a surprise.

Venetia · 01-19-2014, 05:15 PM

Okay, that is a stretch. Wouldn't Freddie at least tell Sam or Cat that he was dating Carly? Why would he cover it up to them? They would mention it on the show if Freddie was Carly's boyfriend.

We need to stop being in denial here about what Dan did to Creddie. Neither Creddie or Seddie was endgame in canon. I watched the episode.

credit:creddie-forever

dg31 · 01-19-2014, 05:40 PM

Ok, this thread is supposed to be for people who ship CREDDIE. If you want to drop bombs on it and do it down at every opportunity, fine, I've got better things to do with my life than endlessly debate it with you but take it somewhere more appropriate. God knows there are enough places on-line where you can lambast Creddie to your little heart's content.

Kindly leave this thread to those of us who still ship it and want to support it and the FACT that it was endgame and canon on iCarly, irrespective of what the AU S&C claims.

Venetia · 01-19-2014, 07:09 PM

credit:creddie--forever

@dg31: I sent you a PM about this. I will remove the message in the tags after you respond back to me. Let's deal with this like mature adults please.

I am NOT anti-Creddie and do NOT misportray me that way for discussing the truth about what went on Sam & Cat or for disagreeing with you because everything I said was legitimate. For people who want to read my defense to your unfounded attack, they can read my post in the spoiler tags. Everybody else can just ignore the pointless drama.

I was engaging in rational discussion using a factual basis and making valid observations.

I did NOT lambast Creddie as a ship nor Carly & Freddie as characters. I was also not trying to start drama but am pointing out the obvious implications.

I was being polite and objective. You are insulting me and are being biased.

You know what Creddie means to me. I have been such a devoted Creddie shipper for a long time. I love this pairing. However, what went down on canon is a separate matter.

Do not treat me a like a hater or anti-shipper or the enemy here. Watch the episode and actually absorb what I said, it should make sense to you. I am operating on an accurate perspective here.

There is a small community of Creddie shippers that exist online. Do not drive people away unfairly and be tolerant towards others. I did not attack the ship, I respect Creddie but I call it as I see it as far as the plot.

@dg31:

Spoiler:

dg31 · 01-19-2014, 09:30 PM

Not my words but from someone who wanted to contribute but does not have an account on this site.

Quote:

Why S&C is AU to iCarly.
There is a mountain of evidence that points to the fact that Sam & Cat is AU to iCarly and Victorious but I'll limit it to just iCarly since that is the relevant point when it comes to Creddie:

1. Sam and Cat do not recognize one another when they meet in Pilot other than Cat recognizing her from the web show. It blatantly ignores iParty with Victorious, an iCarly episode no matter how well Dan tries to twist the truth in trying to claim it happened with some nonsense that they didn't talk or interact.

2. In Killer Tuna Jump, none of the guest stars recognise one another from iParty with Victorious when there has been several instances after the episode where they've kept in contact after the party so the 'oh they didn't interact after the credits roll excuse': Carly listened to Jade & Cat's duet from Freak the Freak Out, Jade uses Spencer's private zombie footage from iGet Pranky to try to sabotage her school's prom (Spencer had to send that to her), Freddie appeared in the Victorious episode 'Who Did it to Trina?' to watch Tori's directorial debut and yet no one recognized him or he recognized them in Killer Tuna Jump (TheSlap confirmed it was him and not just some random guy that looked like Freddie). S&C has to ignore those episodes of iCarly and Victorious since it can't retcon away things from the previous series then S&C has to be AU where those things didn't take place.

3. Sam is 16 and still in school in Sam & Cat while in iCarly she is 19 and has to have graduated.

Other shows may have inconsistency about the passage of time, but iCarly surprisingly doesn't with some key episodes giving us a fairly good idea about when stuff is happening. One can simply start with iStill Psycho in which Carly clearly states they have already gone to their junior prom then you have as a plot point in iOMG they are working on their final projects to wrap up the school year. At that point, Freddie and Sam are 17 while Carly is 16. You fast forward to iHalfoween and they give a definitive date to when the episode takes place within a margin of error of a week of the end of April which has to be their senior year at that point. At that time Sam is eighteen as it is past Dan's approved date for Sam's birthdate and they have to be just weeks away from graduating. iGoodbye ends with Freddie and Sam as 18 and Carly as 17.

You look at Sam & Cat and they have repeated incidences hammering home the fact that she's a minor on S&C: it was the underlining premise for GoatSitting where they can't live there alone if they are minors. Babysitting Commercial states that she's not an adult. In MagicATM when they were arrested, they were going to go to juvie. In MyPooper it not only states that she's a minor but clearly show on Sam's juvie record that she is currently 16.

Sam cannot both be 16 and 19 years old at the same time and since S&C can't retcon anything in iCarly, the show has to be taking place in another universe to resolve these discrepancies.

4. The fact that Seddie actually happened in both shows.

In iCarly, Seddie took place while they both were 17 years old since it happened after their junior prom when Sam's birthday is either April 11 by the show or April 17 from the website and she's only 16 now in S&C. Seddie had to have happened at least two years ago at this point of S&C since Cat has mentioned two Victorious episodes taking place a year (Tori Goes Plantium) and more than a year ago (The Blonde Squad) which each was a year after Seddie broke up. So for Sam, Seddie had to take place when they were both 14 which puts them somewhere between 'iChristmas' and 'iMake Sam Girlier' for it to have taken place, which it couldn't.

Venetia · 01-19-2014, 09:41 PM

OMG.

I already addressed this with a rebuttal in my previous replies.

This person is citing a lot of material inaccurately. This is not even accurate and he is taking plot points out of context to make the AU argument.

Their exact ages were NEVER confirmed to be 18 or 19 on iCarly so you can't debunk Sam & Cat as being AU based on that. I know who is making these arguments and he keeps disregarding this fact to hammer on about this.

The passage of time can be elapsed and I already addressed the whole prom issue & how their ages can still be elongated because other shows have done this.

It was never confirmed what grade they were in, in the final season. I pointed out that grades and ages can still be extended. They still could have been 16 when the series ended.

He keeps inaccurately stating their ages on iCarly by claiming it was confirmed to be 17 in certain episodes as well as insist they are 19 now when that was not confirmed either.

You can't make a rational argument by inaccurately citing their ages when it was not confirmed so that post doesn't have merit.

This person is operating on their OWN headcanon versus what has been stated concretely in either of the series.

On iCarly and Sam & Cat, it is referenced to them being in highschool. There was NOTHING on iCarly to indicate they were seniors in the final season or that they were going off to college soon.
It is the same thing on Victorious, their ages were not stated in the final season and they were all still high school students with no references to them graduating.

On Sam & Cat, it blatantly indicated that Carly was still in Italy and Freddie was living in Seattle. It blatantly indicated that they were not in a relationship.

Watch the episodes to actually gauge what I am talking about. Sam or Freddie would have mentioned it in the episode if Carly was Freddie's boyfriend especially since Cat went after him. They make unflattering references to Seddie too like Sam regretting that she ever dated him & etc in that episode.

Also, this person keeps disregarding what Dan said. Cat and Sam didn't interact on iPwV. You can call Dan's comments nonsense and call out his retcon glitches but you can't flat-out
disregard what he said to claim his spin-off his AU when he doesn't indicate that.

This person just makes one presumption after another and then claims he is citing actual evidence when it is NOT evidence backed up by anything concrete.

In the final season of iCarly, all we saw a kiss between Carly & Freddie. We assumed that it meant they got together but Dan contradicted that right after the series ended with his own statements.
Sam & Cat picks up after iCarly left off when Sam left Seattle in her motorcycle.

I love Creddie and wish it was endgame in canon but we have to be logical here. I feel like this person is just distorting everything to impose the inaccuracy that Sam & Cat is AU based on his perception of their ages. Telling frustrated shippers what they want to hear and actually noting factually what went down are two separate matters.

Shipping a couple and trying to accept what the endgames are in the creator's universe are two separate issues.

IBelieveInMiracles · 01-19-2014, 11:54 PM

Hey, so I don't want to get in the middle of a fight or pick sides but I do want to point out a few things. One- we should all be able to discuss and debate the show and Creddie on this thread without fear of getting attacked. Technically we are all on the same side here. We all love Creddie. Two- I've been coming to this thread for a long time Venetia originated this thread and has been here since the beginning. She's also been one of the main people who has kept this thread alive since the show ended. So if there is a question of whether she deserves to be on this thread and share her opinions on it, the answer is yes. She deserves to be here. And she doesn't deserved to be attacked for her opinions. No one does. And three- In regards to all this disagreement over ages and canon and what not, I think the person to blame for this mess is Dan. I mean for starters, it's not that hard to be clear on characters' ages. Don't know he couldn't just do that one simple thing. But more than that he had to know Creddie fans would assume that kiss meant Creddie was endgame, but then he says a bunch of contrary crap after the fact and ruins it. And now he has comes up with this stupid spinoff episode that seems to dash Creddie hopes but doesn't put Seddie back together either. So basically everyone's unhappy. I don't know why he's been so indecisive and unclear with Creddie and Seddie. He's a troll and an idiot. If he just hadn't insisted on fan pandering to Seddie, and that's all it was, we wouldn't be sitting here trying to decipher what the heck he's even trying to do. Anyway I'm NOT trying to rile things up, I'm actually hoping we can agree to disagree or something, b/c I don't want us to lose this thread over fighting like this.

Venetia · 01-20-2014, 12:04 AM

credit:creddie--forever

AutumnColorsღ · 01-20-2014, 06:06 PM

Hey guys,

Let's please try to get along here. I know sometimes people disagree with each other but lets just agree to disagree and move on and keep on topic with shipping this couple and respect each other. Thank you.

Venetia · 01-21-2014, 05:55 AM

credit:mirandamyoxygen

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