I agree he was angry and probably saying hurtful things on purpose. People definitely change and act ugly when they're upset. I just don't get why he was so upset...he just let Ethan get too in his head, I guess.

Do you guys think Brian ing Rage had more significance to Justin than his other tricking did, or is he just fed up with Brian at this point and that was "the last straw"? This fanfic I've been reading went on and on about how Brian was F'ing the manifestation of Justin's art blah blah blah and how that was especially hurtful. I didn't really agree with that. I think it makes sense, that given Brian's narcissism (let's be honest), he would of course want to himself as a character/hero. I didn't think it had that much depth to it for Justin, but I also never considered that viewpoint before.

Also, wow, this was in the description box of a fanvidder's creation on YouTube. Probably the best description I've ever seen written under a video. What do you guys think?:
""it's only time"

after everyone and their grandma have vidded this song, here i am with yet another completely unnecessary rendition of it

it's just .. time is such a major theme running through brian/justin that i couldn't help myself.
there's no time, as the song has it: we value time because time is constantly running out
time is never enough, a sum of moments slipping away from us like water

yet, time is also irrelevant to some things because those things are so meaningful and intense
that our experience of time seems to be condensed in one single instance,
hours weeks months and years all piled on top of each other


to me, that's what brian and justin represent
moments of heightened awareness, snapshots of momentous truth and realizations
all slowed down and merged together in a dreamlike glide of colors and lights
and meanwhile, the leaving and the coming back - all the endless waiting -
wrapped up in the space between beginning and end till you can't separate one from the other"

Maybe Justin was angry at himself, who knows? Or like you said, he let Ethan get too into his head.

About Brian F-ing Rage---I never thought about it. I can definitely see the narcissism. I can also see it being the last straw. Or maybe it was something about real Brian and fictional Brian (the one that Justin created, the "perfect" one) merge that angered him.

And wow--my heart So so true though!!

You are absolutly right about people saying hutful things when they are upset.. it happens to everybody ... and I haven't thought about that before..

What was so hurtful about fining Brian hooked up with Rage to Justin, was not that it was Rage.. it was the fact that he had hoped so much that Brian was looking an waitinng for him, like Lindsay said, and Justin found him busy.. he felt again betrayed and probably like the unwanted kid tat wasn't worth waiting .. he was disspointed in his own expectations.. does that make sense?

this commet about time is absolutly brilliant and fits perfect to the two

Good question Chris~ I agree with what Daggi said. If I remember right, Justin was over at Michael and Ben's around this time working on the comic , noting their closeness and normal nights home (instead of Babylon all the time). Ben was there the night of the Rage party celebrating WITH Michael. And then the girls say something like "Brian's looking for you... of course he is it's your special night". Good point about why would they say that?? Maybe they thought since Brian specifically planned this for Brian and Justin that he *would* actually want to be with him that night. I think Justin was all in that "I want a boyfriend who treats me special and who wants to be with me more than anyone else" mode. So between it being his special night and it kind of being the last straw, I think it was more that than the fact that it was "Rage" that Brian was doing.

He'd given up on Brian at this point. Justin was just completely over it. He'd became disillusioned from this idea of a perfect relationship to have with him, and bought into whatever Ethan was offering him in contrast.

Indeed, it did.

Something I've been thinking about... we always see Brian as the one who wants to be in control/on top, etc. Yet...

Very true about the receiving part. Brian often took that vulnerable position like a champ, too.

Indeed, it did.

Something I've been thinking about... we always see Brian as the one who wants to be in control/on top, etc. Yet...

Interesting. I never thought about it like that. I mean--



Regardless, Brian did know how to be vulnerable and give up control every once in a while. It'd only be natural to want to do that. I imagine, or maybe I know I guess lol, it gets tiring.

Another question I had that ties right into this--

I was watching a fan vid yesterday and it showed the scene where Justin takes the bloody scarf off of Brian when they are in bed. And I was thinking--that is Brian being so vulnerable with Justin. He may not have said much but he was showing him that he wore the scarf, that he blamed himself, that he was so messed up from seeing Justin hurt, etc. Thoughts?

Indeed, it did.

Something I've been thinking about... we always see Brian as the one who wants to be in control/on top, etc. Yet...