fmaldy24

I was just wondering what you meant by this Sia? Do you think it was something he wouldn't say or just wasn't right for the scene?

I like that video that a fan made that someone put up here recently that showed the ending with Brian dancing and Justin turning up - that's all we needed - just that one thing of him walking in and smiling at him or something A little something

Sia

Yes, that alternate ending of 513, it was beautiful, if it just ended like that. I would be at peace. Just one glance of Justin.
I wanted to say that, that particular sentence somehow did not sound to me unstudied at that moment from Brian. I fully believed he felt like that, but when he was saying it, it sounded to me a bit like he was reading a book or reciting some philosophical wisdom, if you understand what I mean. But it was not lasting impression, just in that particular moment, otherwise I think it was amazing and very convincing scene, actually too much convinving that it left me powerless.

fmaldy24

Ah you think the way he said it was not exactly emotional and did not fit what he was trying to say and the emotions he was trying to show?

Sia

No, i probably have difficulty to explain myself, Not that it was not emotional, he was very emotional but the sentence did not sound natural for me, like when you hear sometimes people say something but you feel they are not using their own words but rather replaying someone elses words.

fmaldy24

OK I understand now Thanks for answering my questions

Giotto

Wasn't he using Shakespears?

Sia

Yeah, or rather Cowlip got the idea for this speech from a Shakespeare Sonnet 116. The meaning is beautiful, I just when I heard it first time, like the first impression, did not feel that this particular line fit naturally into the scene.

But the sonnet and its meaning is really beautiful
In Austin 2015 Cowlip said that this sonnet is how they felt about
Brian and Justin

SONNET 116
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no; it is an ever-fixed mark,
That looks on tempests, and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come;
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

fmaldy24

Yeah I don't know about that sonnet either - I know it meant something to them but I don't know if it means as much to us as the audience and whether people understood the quote and why it was used when it was in the show. I'm pretty sure the first time I heard it I was like what?

Sia

Thats the problem. They had some idea in their head but failed to communicate it to audience. We are not in their heads.the sonnet is beautiful and if I would know Brian is referring to it, maybe it would have different impaxt upon me. But Shakespeare never came to my mind while watching this scene and not to anyones else I know of. The first impression the scene gave me, was certainly not that it means they are bonded forever, I started to see it in this way only after I read interview with Cowlip and saw them speaking about it in Austin.
But before that. the impression the scene gave me was rather that Brian gave up, resigned. The words it doesnt matter are not quiet encouraging.
Maybe they should have formulated it a bit differently.

fmaldy24

I think most people wouldn't know it was Shakespeare. Also the fact that he said if we never see each other again - like it was a possibility that they wouldn't. And Brian is left alone and looks like he has lost Justin for good at the end with how sad he looks.

Sia

Yeah, the message they sent to viewers was that it is likely they might not see each other again. Certainly not like Cowlip said in Austin that OF COURSE they saw each other. thats not what we were "told" in 513.
Otherwise I would not feel so powerless every time I watch it, I start crying from that moment they exchange those heartbreaking line till Brian dances in Babylon.
Although his last dance is majestic and really impressive, still you can see in his face that he is somehow broken.
And when hear these words of the song Proud and watch Brian dance to that, its so powerful experience they are both emotions of complete victory and also of complete surrender mixed together



Still so many answers I don't know (there are so many answers)
Realize that to question is how we grow (to question is to we grow)
So I step out of the ordinary
I can feel my soul ascending
I'm on my way
Can't stop me now
You can do the same

Giotto

My guess is that cowlip tried to explain themselfes to get out of that number, realising that they made a mistake, but not wanting to admit it.. at least it sounds that way to me

Sia

Yeah, it seems so that they were backpedaling.....
They should get another chance with remake, so they can redeem themselvea

fmaldy24

I wonder if they could redo it if they would have Brian and Justin apart still but at least make it clear it wasn't forever as it felt to us. After I watched it the first time I thought to myself I know that they will get back together and I will hold onto that in my head (cause with their love how could they not be together ) but it could've been done clearer I think if they were still going to end with them apart.

Sia

Yeah, it would be interesting to ask Cowlip some of these types of question but problem is would they tell the truth? Because its not easy to accept such a mistake, that they failed to communicate tneir message. Or maybe they are still happy about the end. Because Scott was quiet satisfied how it ended from what I read for example.