Miranda

Yeah I think both are possible Kris.

I think Red loved them both.

Fangirl49

Now I'm in shock that he was already looking for the fulcrum. I thought Luther Braxton was the beginning.

Lauren Helen Graham

Not just more intense, but also include some more information

I as well think it possible, that Red loved them both. I guess he was married to Naomi first and then had to go to the Soviet Union to work as an agent and got to know Katarina and yes, he fell in love... Who could blame him. These things happen sometimes and still I think he could have loved his family as well.

Marilyn, I'm kind of in shock as well because until you pointed it out I never realized that he might have been looking for the Fulcrum before Luther already... I knew about this key and what it was there for the whole time but never made this connection.

Fangirl49

And why was he looking. Was he already learning of a danger to Liz maybe he was linking the Cabal to Berlin.

Miranda

I never thought about it that way either but it makes so much sense he was already looking for The Fulcrum back then. It must all connect!

Fangirl49

i just can't believe it. Wow so do we see what the key opens? Kris did you say it was Leonard's case.

Lauren Helen Graham

I somehow think it's been him asking Fitch for help when it came to Berlin and them deciding against it... Fitch told Red that they started to doubt he has the Fulcrum so he followed all the crumbs and tried to get everything together

Yes, we do see what it is there for. It doesn't open the case, it makes the case possible to be activated to read the Fulcrum. Liz hands the key to Leonard in Red's weird little apartment and then he starts the machine that is hidden in this case.

Fangirl49

Now I need to rewatch S1. I remember Red and Fitch talking, but I don't remember the exact circumstances of the fulcrum conversation. I would have sworn that was S2.

But, I know Fitch and the Cabal wouldn't help with Berlin, so I can see that Red would already be thinking ahead that he better get the fulcrum. He is a planner.

I still wonder why Fitch framed Red in the first place with Berlin. I wonder if that will be tied in with Liz's history somehow.

Miranda

I still wonder why Fitch framed Red with Berlin as well. It must have something to do with something that happened in the past cause Red and Fitch go way back.

Lauren Helen Graham

We had no clue what it was back then... It's so funny that the Fulcrum was mentioned before so often and we never knew until Luther Braxton that it was the Fulcrum You have to re-watch 1x20 if you want to re-watch these convos

Fitch framed Red in the first place because he had stolen the Fulcrum... He said this in The Decembrist. That Red had left and disappeared with these critical information.

Fangirl49

And that's interesting. Because we now know Red didn't have the fulcrum. He didn't have any of it.

I wonder when Fitch realized Red didn't have it?

Lauren Helen Graham

Yes, he hadn't but it's possible that he hid/gave parts of it with other people We don't know that he didn't either... The Fulcrum was always in Liz's possession though.

Fangirl49

It's interesting that fitch had part of the fulcrum. Maybe that was the deal they made to leave each other alone because they both had a part of the fulcrum even though Red was bluffing

I wonder how fitch felt when he realized Berlin was after Red and it was because of him. He probably knew he was in trouble. They seemed to be friends. Or at least have respect for each other.

Miranda

Maybe Red did steal the Fulcrum but gave it to somebody else?

I don't think Fitch felt too guilty about Berlin going after Red cause if he would have felt guilty he would have done something about it.

Fangirl49

I don't know. That last scene with Red and Fitch they seemed close. Red was choking back tears.

But here's a thought. Would Red have killed Fitch if Berlin did not. Or did the fact that this thing predates their agreement change the betrayal? Did Red see it as a betrayal. Funny I see Kate more as a betrayer than Fitch.