Lauren Helen Graham

To me it was clear from the beginning as well. I can't even describe why but I knew that it wasn't real and that this woman was Katarina from the beginning... Especially with how she wanted to walk into the ocean and kill herself.

He never said he loved her. But I somehow think that they were close. Maybe they were just friends, really close friends? Or colleagues, really close ones? Or he was her handler? I really don't know Marilyn. But I somehow doubt that he loved her. I honestly think that he loved his wife and daughter more than anything in the world but that this one night destroyed everything else he had. Saving Liz might have been the start of the downward spiral for him.

Cece That moment!!! It was sooo heartbreaking. And still I can't forgive her what she had said before this scene... I simply can't. I'm just so angry at her still.

You think so, Donna? I somehow think that he didn't say it back because he didn't expect her to die in the first place. I don't believe he ever thought she'd die, that he'd never talk to her again. And I somehow think that there's nothing he has to blame himself regarding his love for her. He might not have told her but his actions have spoken for themselves (although Liz might not have seen it).
But she started to love him, she loved him. And how can you love somebody who doesn't make you see that he only wants the best for you. I think she pretty much knew which makes her strange behavior in the past couple of episodes even worse and more confusing.

Aww, so well said

Wes&FredFan

That's what I think is feeding his regret - that he didn't say it back, even if he didn't think she'd die. He showed her how he felt about her, but Liz didn't see it (and sometimes was quite mean to him ).

The way he acted toward Nick afterward, kidnapping him and then interrogating him over "what went wrong" shows that he blames the doctor who couldn't save her.

ChakotaysLover

Red spent days chasing the dragon. He was bound to be hallucinating some really serious stuff.... and I was the same when he saw the woman on the beach. I knew it was Katerina. I mean who else would he hallucinate in the wake of so much personal tragedy? The one person who had such deep ties to Masha/Liz.....

I thought the way James was in this episode was phenomenal. He made you believe it was all happening even though most of us knew it was all in his brain pan!

a fine mess

You said it beautifully! Liz did become his life and heart. My favorite dynamic of the show.

Fangirl49

I think they were alike and very close perhaps because of circumstances but I too don't see him betraying his family for anyone.

It's obvious her death tore him up because he believed he could save them both and to believe he cause her suicide was a game changer for him

Perhaps as he said her suicide really did force him into an area he didn't want to be to have to give up his family and focus all on saving Lizzie.

Maybe her suicide turned people's attention to him.

Lauren Helen Graham

Yeah, Donna You might be right... I'm really hoping that we'll get more insight into this, him blaming himself for not saying it back. It would be so interesting to see.

Mine, too

You think he believed that? That he's responsible for Katarina's death? Wow, I never looked at it that way, that maybe her suicide could have been the undoing of him and Liz in the end... That would be even more tragic and if so Liz should finally stop blaming Red. He's blaming himself enough!

Look what I found, this is somehow such a cute gif-set.






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Fangirl49

I think he carries the weight of the world on his shoulders and I think he believes he should have been able to save katarina that he should have been able to fix everything.

Now he carries that guilt and the guilt of Lizzie's death. I don't know how he will get through it

Wes&FredFan

Love how Agnes and Red stare at each other - baby/Red feels . I can't wait til this Thursday. I see Red fighting to remain in Agnes's life, and then for Tom to agree to let him raise Agnes (even though my headcanon says that Agnes is really Red's ). It would be interesting if Liz didn't know that Mr. Kaplan intended to fake her death, and was only told by Mr. Kaplan that everything would work out in the end. Liz has to be "believed" dead while Red and Co. seek out the ones who wanted to kidnap her. She probably believed she'd have time to tell Red the rest of what she meant to say.

a fine mess

I'm glad Red got to hold Agnes and Liz let him back in, apologized for shutting him out.

Lauren Helen Graham

You think he really carries all that guilt? Man, that makes it even more sad... But yes, he for sure carries the guilt of Lizzie's death. He told her again in the church that he was responsible for all of that and that he is sorry. I'm sure he wishes for never entering her life, he knows he made mistakes. But it's too late now to change what happened.

Nice theory I love that one... Maybe she really needs to stay hidden as long as the person responsible for her death, the person who wanted to get his/her hands on her might be out there still. Wow, that for sure will kill Liz because I assume she'd be awake by now with the knowledge, that her child is out there and that the people that love her think her dead still.

I'm wondering if she'll be watching Red from afar, if she'll demand to know how they are all doing... If she is alive that is of course.

Me, too... I'm not sure if it would have been possible the other way around. She wouldn't have continued to shut him out at any means, right? And her getting him back in makes me somehow believe that she knows about the plan... It's just a feeling but still.




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Miranda

I read up on everything but it's to much to comment on everything You guys were on fire while I was away. That's great!

I love all the gifs! I cried when Red was talking about Liz. He is so heartbroken and that is what breaks my heart.

Lauren Helen Graham

We somehow were, I just realized that myself But I loved it and honestly I think it's never been as active in here as it is now in the last year or ever

You know what I'm wondering... Did you ever doubt that Red was talking about Liz when he said that there was one woman he loved? In this fandom there seemed to be a lot of confusion going on about it and I'm wondering why because it was clear to me



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Fangirl49

I think it all depends on how you see their relationship. If you see it as father daughter the. You may have thought he was talking about Katarina. But if you see them as in love you thought of Liz. That's the good thing about ambiguity. You can interpret your own way and still feel right.

I have been on other sites for other shows where the fans come to verbal blows when they disagree about their ship. It is nice to come here where everyone is so nice and respectful even with a difference of opinion.

Miranda

I knew immediately that he was talking about Liz. I can't believe there would be confusion about that. It was SO obvious.

Yes you can certainly interpret the way you want too but I think it was pretty obvious he was talking about Liz. The love he was talking about was a fatherly love to me. Not a lovers love if that make sense.

It is very important to me and Kris that everybody's opinion is respected and that everybody feels comfortable to share their opinion and not be bashed for it. If that would happen we would do something about it right away. So it's great to hear that you think it's nice that everybody is so respectful here.

a fine mess

Interesting. I didn't doubt he was talking about Liz there either. But I also don't think he meant IN LOVE. "There was a woman I loved" doesn't have to mean in love with (but could be interpreted as such, of course). To me, their relationship is a father and daughter bond. Agree with you, Miranda!