kerbear28

It is great news. He's looking good.

mina_lp

He is lol.

kerbear28

Lovely drawings of Jamie and Toby.

reylosome

That nude drawing is of his girlfriend. Met some people who know this actor so they told me some things about him. I only saw him in TLK so I was, like, I know who you are talking about. But then I couldn't find any forum to share info cause he isn't famous. Which is sad cause he's really talented by what I saw of him. Brought something interesting to a difficult yet underwritten role. Sucks that his career is now only conventions which I'm sure fans love but that's career death knell. Industry doesn't take convention actors seriously. It's like wearing a D or F list banner.

kerbear28

Oh, I hadn't seen or heard anything about Toby having a girlfriend currently, but that makes sense that he would have had a model for that drawing. If it's true, then she's a lucky girl.

And I'm sorry, but I have to disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Toby's career. Just because he's not currently on a tv show that's popular in the States or in a blockbuster movie doesn't mean he's not successful. He's a talented, WORKING actor who has lots of fans who love and support him. I'm certainly no industry expert, but I don't understand how participating in a few fan conventions means his career is dead? All that shows me is that Toby appreciates his fans and he is generous with his time. Anyone in the business who would label him "D or F List" because of that doesn't deserve to work with a talent like Toby. Maybe I'm biased because I really love Toby and his work, but I still hope that he will get another big break soon. He deserves great opportunities and tons of recognition.

reylosome

She's on another nude drawing so I was told. He never draws her face when he draws nudes.

Well, being in a successful movie or show is success. You can see the downward trajectory. He received acclaim for a stage production (Husk) and indie movies (Mr Nobody, iwant2killu) when he was in his teens. So that was his career peak. Then he was a male lead on a pretty popular but trashy teen show in his early 20s (reign), but that was a temporary engagement, not a full series run. After that, he had thankless roles on 2 period shows (TLK, Medici), also not the full series run. Then he joined the very last season of ADOW. And then he was a guest on Chivalry. That's not a success trajectory. Success trajectory goes from small to big, from no acclaim to acclaim. His is the other way around. His roles are getting smaller and smaller and more and more irrelevant. I don't quite understand why cause number of people he worked with say he nails scenes in few takes, has ability to read a scene in a surprising way, is super professional and great to work with. So it's really weird that his career is stalled and basically depending on convention appearances.

I'm from the industry so I can tell you that conventions have zero to do with appreciating fans. It doesn't mean that actors don't appreciate fans - they do - but conventions are business transaction. Actors get paid for them. Photo ops are charged. It's a stone cold business. And it's actors who don't get much work that depend on them for income. Now the problem here is that Reign isn't Star Wars. It's a small show whose popularity is based on actor's youth and good looks. That will not last forever. It's a teen show and actors are no more close to that age. So interest will dwindle as they get older. It isn't Star Wars to go on forever. Point being, at the age of 30, they all should get out of convention business cause it won't last. At the end of the day, interest in actors is kept and grown by their starring in new movies and/or shows. Not in answering the same questions about a show they did 10,20,30 years ago.

Like I said, he's very talented and by all accounts, from what I've personally heard and otherwise, he's a genuinely good person that has real far left convinctions rather than just being a virtue signaler. I respect that. So I wish him to get out of convention business and build his career from ground up if needs be. Conventions are not respected in the industry nor they are a tool for networking.

kerbear28

Well, if as you say you're more familiar with the industry, I suppose I can take your word for it. From the outside, it is clear that the entertainment business is cruel, fickle and shallow. I understand that careers can have hot and cold periods, so I consider any actors who persevere and continue auditioning and working steadily to be successful. I respect them all so much for putting themselves out there and facing rejection day in and day out. From what I know of Toby, acting has never been about gaining acclaim or fame. He doesn't seem to worry too much about "career trajectory." For him, it truly is about doing good work. Still, I agree with you - I don't understand why his career doesn't seem to be growing faster. In the end, Toby will build the career that HE wants. I wish him all the best, because he does deserve it.

As for the conventions, I am well aware of the business aspect of them. Perhaps the income is the main factor in some actors agreeing to participate. But as a fan who enjoys them (and the pictures and content they create), I just can't see them that cynically - as a stone-cold business. It is about connecting with fans, and reuniting with old castmates, too. Should actors suddenly decide that that is "beneath" them when they reach a certain age or a certain point in their career? I can understand why the industry might look down on conventions, but that doesn't mean they are as sad and pathetic as you describe them. Does every event an actor attends have to be a calculated move to further their career? If so, that's awful. As for Toby and rest of the Reign cast, doing conventions doesn't lower them in my esteem. It shows gratitude and humility, and it makes me love and respect them even more.

mina_lp

I can see that Toby's career and the roles he has played before was better than his recent ones (at least in regard of consistency and quantity) but that doesn't necessarily mean he is not goanna be a very successful actor in the future. He is still young and has his whole life ahead of him and most importantly he is still trying by taking little steps ahead. Hopefully with a bit of luck along with his trying, he gets the chance to do some major roles and show his talent even more, 'cause as you guys said he is indeed very talented.

As for the conventions, I can imagine that the industry might not look at it in a positive way unfortunately, but personally I think there's no reason why one can't do both (attending conventions every once in a while and building his career at the same time).

P.S: him drawing his gf is romantic, lol I hope he is happy with her, he deserves it.

reylosome

Of course, anything can happen. Sometimes it takes one role. However, this is the deal. He's been in the industry for a long time, since he was 14. I did a good homework on him before posting here. So if you don't build resume and connections in 16-17 years of work than you are doing something wrong. Big factor in success is being invited to work with the same director and/or for the same studio. For example, Disney likes to reuse actors they like, so they cast them in anything. Not going to name but there's a terrible actress who appeared in Star Wars, a Marvel show and soon will appear in Willow. But they like her so...

And just going by his filmography, I don't see that sort of thing, that he was invited to work with someone again. usually, if big star likes you, they keep recommending you. Leo does that a lot. Johnny Depp did that too. Etc. Directors like Ridley Scott, Noah Baumbach, Martin Scorcese, Greta Gerwig, etc tend to work with the same collaborators. So my point is, it's a career that spans 17 years and no reliable connection to assure steady work.

I did find something interesting worth of investigation. In 2013, Toby was cast in Maleficent, in a small role Young King Stephan (Young Maleficent's love interest). It was a Disney production so despite minimal role, it was a foot in big movie door. Then things went wrong. According to him, 2 weeks into filming, he was let go cause they decided he was too old and wanted an actor of about 14. His departure was not reported in media. However, India Eisley, who was cast as Young Maleficent, was very publicly fired because "Disney executives expressed displeasure with her performance." I cannot possibly imagine what displeasure they could have with a performance in a nothing of a role so I'd say this is very sus and there must be a bigger story. Two actors cast to play young versions of main characters got fired for different reasons (too old actor and bad actress). Very strange. But then the plot thickens. They indeed cast young actors in those roles - Michael Higgins and Isobelle Molloy. But then they recast teen versions, which were played by India and Toby - with Ella Purnell and Jackson Bews. I checked his age and he is only 2 years younger than Toby. So, unless Toby was lying about the reason he was fired, it's Disney that lied to him. They didn't want to keep him for whatever reason. So big question is, what really happened on the set that got original actors cast as teen versions fired (but for different reasons)? And did that hurt Toby's standing with Disney at least if not larger industry? It was a bummer and he acknowledged it in an Insta video, that he wanted to be a part of a big production but it didn't work out.

This was one setback. The other was, of course, cancellation of GOT spin-off. I would also add Young Dumbledore to the list. WB missed the mark here. Fandom was hyped for young Dumbledore and Grindewald movies cause they liked the actors but WB decided to go with Fantastic Beasts instead and cast older Dumbledore and Grindewald and ran it into the ground.


Oh yes, super romantic and hot.

Re: conventions. There's no reason for industry to respect them because they are not acting work. they give actors nothing to show for. Actors just get paid for answering questions. But they don't audition or film so they have no material to show to casting directors. That's why they are waste of career. There are only 4 conventions that industry takes seriously because they promote new movies and shows, they are not AMA about old work:

San Diego Comic Con

D23 - Disney convention for promoting new Disney content that they founded after pulling out of San Diego Comic Con

Star Wars Celebration - new Star Wars content

Cinemacon - trailers and footage for cinema chain execs, not attended by actors

Actors can have both - conventions as appreciation for fans and actual work - but you likely noticed that Toby's career is now 98% conventions, 2% work. Karl Urban did conventions too but he also worked steadily and now is on a popular show The Boys.

I'm not trying to be mean. I actually have a soft spot for struggling actors who are talented and professional so basically have it all for success so detective in me wants to uncover where they are going wrong.

kerbear28

I get that. When something doesn't seem to add up, it makes sense to want to get to the bottom of it. I just get really defensive when it comes to Toby. You are not saying anything that is necessarily untrue about the current state of his career. However, the idea that he must be doing something wrong bothers me. This is where we must agree to disagree. Your implication is that it's his fault because because he's not ambitious enough, he's not working hard enough, he's wasting his time at conventions, or he made some big mistake that tanked his standing in the industry. I just don't think that's true (at least from everything I've heard about Toby). Toby may have other interests besides acting, but that doesn't mean he isn't focused and doing the very best he can to hone his craft. He's certainly had a few setbacks in his career, but from the information we have, I don't think we can lay the blame on Toby for any of those incidents. (I agree that the Maleficent situation does seem suspicious, and I'd love to know exactly what happened. ) I'm certainly not making any excuses for Toby, but my instinct is to blame the industry first. It really is cruel and fickle, and people can reject you for no real reason. And perhaps some of it is just plain bad luck. He may have been at this for awhile, but like Mina said, Toby is still young and NONE of this means he still can't build a stellar career. It could just take one role, or one person believing in him.

I also agree with Mina in regards to the conventions. I understand why the industry might not respect them, but I just don't see why it should reflect poorly on an actor if they attend them along with pursing actual work. As long as they are still auditioning and trying to get involved in new projects, I don't see anything wrong with taking a day or two when they're not working to go to a convention. I try to follow Toby pretty closely (at least what I can see on IG ), and I wouldn't characterize his career right now as 98% conventions. I notice that he might go to one convention every month or so (maybe two), but I assume that he is spending the rest of his time working or pursuing work. I just don't know what more we can ask of him? Obviously, actual work will always take priority over conventions, but I just don't see them as a waste of time. If nothing else, they keep actors in the hearts and minds of their fans - ensuring that they continue to support them and follow their career.

On that we can all agree. It's very romantic and hot. Like Jack and Rose on the Titanic. I do wish them both happiness.

reylosome

Sorry, I didn't express myself properly. When I said doing wrong I didn't mean like doing something that puts off the industry. Just that for whatever reason he isn't competitive. There's a difference between actors who get opportunities that don't pan out, and actors who don't get opportunities. he's the latter group which is a problem and we are trying to figure out why.

I'll give you an example. Henry Cavill was famously up for a number of big roles, which his agency publicized of course, until he got Superman. But before that, we was up for Batman (Bale got it), Bond (Craig got it) and some other that I forgot. Many actors are up for coveted roles that they may not get but their name circulates in the industry so they are more likely to get something eventually. But you don't hear that Toby was up for anything. Which brings me to...

Maleficent aside, there are GOT spin-off and Dumbledore. So lets look at each.

GOT spin-off is absolutely tragic. I don't think it would be so bad if the whole thing was just cancelled and no other spin-off was ever made. But that they greenlit House of Dragon which is a month or so away from its debut must be like rubbing salt on a wound. I read numerous reports, insider and otherwise, on what went wrong and the blame is 100% on showrunners and writers. They messed up so badly that the cast knew for months that they were working on something that had no way of getting greenlit. So when HBO canceleld the pilot it was no shock cause they knew for a long time. But contract kept them working and missing other opportunities. I think I read that they were in Italy for 9 months. That's just brutal.

So you most likely know the story about Toby going on a vision quest in the Pyrinees. That I'm told was after GOT spinoff was cancelled and he felt that he lost direction in life. So he splurged 900 pound sterling on that bizarre experience where you are left alone in a remote spot for 5 days and nights without food. I understand why he reacted like that but I don't see that he got anything out of it that improved his career. It was in 2019. You can't blame covid for everything cause a lot of movies and shows were filmed at that time, and many actors worked. Rege Jean Page became a breakout star in Bridgerton. How come Toby can't get a part on that or the Crown, you know, shows that matter in the grand scheme of things? Which ADOW final season (due to low ratings) does not.

Dumbledore. Now this must have been a disappointment and a half. From what I heard long time ago, WB cast young actors for Dumbledore and Grindewald with the intention to make a prequel centered on them. But then Rowling pitched Fantastic Beasts and the studio went with that cause they liked the American wizrading world idea, and the story included older Dumbledore and Grindewald. So roles that were originally meant to be big were reduced to 3 second cameos like in Deathly Hallows. So that opportunity went nowhere which is sad cause fans were very much into Toby and Jamie and Fantastic Beasts is now a dead franchise due to poor handling.


No, the industry is absolutely brutal. And it requires that you dedicate yourself to pursuit of opportunities, like relentlessly so, no time for anything else, if you want to have a shot (no guarantee!) at big success.

BTW, you know that story about his girlfriend Lindsay who dumped him when he was cast in Rein, called him a sell-out, dyed her hair green and went to Berlin, right? Do you have the actual quote from her or when she said that? Did he say so or did she talk to the press? I see that story recycled on some Toby fan Instas that hate all his girlfriends but especially this one (Vampire Demon, lel) and Kate in particular. It's kinda ironic that her prophecy came true cause Reign didn't move his career in better direction. As we discussed already, he had stronger resume before Reign.

Paint me like your French girls, Jack!

kerbear28

Oh, no need to apologize! I was just being over-protective of Toby and misunderstanding you. I get what you're saying now. Lack of talent is clearly not the issue with Toby, right? So, it's truly puzzling to all of us why he isn't more competitive currently. (Seriously WHY isn't he on Bridgerton or The Crown?! ) There could be so many different reasons - some that are beyond his control and some that he can potentially work on. Without knowing him personally, I can't hope to do any sort of fruitful analysis. Maybe he needs a different agent to fight for him. Maybe he needs to be more active on social media or do better networking to promote himself and get his name out there again. Reading your descriptions of the disappointments he has endured over the past few years makes my heart break for him. It really is brutal. I wouldn't be surprised if those experiences shook his faith and confidence. I hope he is finally starting to find that direction he was seeking when he went on that vision quest. In the end, maybe he just needs to rededicate himself and be more relentless in his pursuit of those high-profile opportunities (if those are truly what he wants). But like you said, even that doesn't guarantee big success. I really hope he keeps fighting, because I think he's such a special talent with so much potential.

Yes, of course I've heard the story about his ex Lindsay dumping him after he got Reign. I don't have the exact quote from her about him being a "sell out", and I don't have a clue how it all got publicized. I just heard it second-hand from fans here on and in comments on twitter and IG. What a piece of work. Her and Kate are definitely the most reviled of Toby's exes. I hope fans are kind to his new girlfriend, and that she is fully supportive of him going after his dreams - wherever that takes him.

I don't think you can necessarily blame Reign (or Lindsay ) for Toby's career not moving up after he left the show. Sure, you can describe it as a trashy teen drama, and you wouldn't be wrong. It had its issues, but it could be quirky and campy, as well as epic and romantic. IMO it was pretty darn special. And Toby was a big part of what made it work, and made it popular. For what it's worth, I had never heard of Toby before Reign, despite the wonderful work he had done prior. The show introduced me and so many others to Toby's talent and incredible range.

mina_lp

oookay, I gained so much new information from your posts about past events, lol. I didn't know about his ex Lindsay saying that. how awful I just hope his current one treats him better and the way he deserves.

Now about Reign, I get that it's not as big or as good as shows like Bridgerton, but I do think that it introduced Toby and his talent to many and the fact that his career didn't move up, has nothing to do with that.

ugh brutal indeed I mean I knew that it must have been a great disappointment to actors involved and I really felt sorry for them but I never knew HOW deeply it had affected Toby as I didn't know about the vision quest thing. poor babe, honestly I give him every right to feel like that.

Maybe it improved his point of view of life though? lol. I mean I'm speaking from my own experience; I used to have a good paying job that I was really good at and had the "talent" for it. I worked about 5 and half years, but then I started to realized it wasn't really the thing that would make me happy, so then I decided to earn less money but do some things that brings me more joy and peace. and yes I was never a competitive person, specially in that job I used to have and be good at. So maybe he is kinda the same? As Keri said Toby is into many things and has many different passions (a clear example: drawing), so maybe he has realized that he wants to have/explore/pursue a little bit of each of those at the same time rather than just focusing and investing on being an actor and dedicate all his time and energy to pursue opportunities of acting relentlessly. 'cause as you said, even if one does that, still there is no guarantee that in the end it would actually work, so instead of investing everything he has in it and be crushed by having it taken away from him over and over, maybe he prefers to at least have some other things in life that he could cling to and take joy and meaning from. It's like maybe he prefers to have all those in life and have smaller roles and be less famous, rather than only aiming for BIG fame and success that might or might not work. And yes I know that many do aim for that, but it's really a personal preference and people might do things differently, maybe his preference is that way at the moment and that's what makes him happy (especially after age of 30, there's a good chance one's point of view on life change; again I'm speaking from my own experience) and who knows, maybe if somehow he gets a chance/role that changes everything, he might reconsider and only focus on that again but whatever he decides to do, I hope it brings him joy and peace (whether him aiming at being super famous and successful in the industry and or simply leading a good quite private life).

P.S: Bringing up titanic (about the drawing subject), was a good nice example

reylosome

@mina_lp That's a great story about changing careers and yes he is very into political activism - refugees, climate change, human rights, LGBTQ. I generally can't stand activists cause they tend to be super shrill, but I really dig him cause he's very thoughtful like Bernie Sanders whom he likes a lot. I enjoy his videos when he talks about politics which, again, is very unlike me.

Oh I don't blame his girlfreinds ha ha and find it hilarious that fandom on social media does. Like, what can those girls do re: his career? Nothing. It's entorely his decision what he signs up for. And since he isn't in a situation to choose but take whatever is offered, even less a chance that girlfriends can influence his career.

As for Reign, it is to "blame" because it's a CW show and CW is not taken seriously. It isn't fair but there's industry bias that just won't go away. Most actors from CW shows didn't go anywhere despite popularity of their shows. SMG of Buffy fame and the whole cast of Buffy just dropped off the rader after the show was over. Ditto Vampire Diaries cast. For years you couldn't look left or right without catching a magazine cover with Nina Dobrev and Ian Somerhalter (sp?) but ever since the show ended they disappeared, didn't go onto bigger better/relevant things. So Lindsay was right in that Reign wasn't a good long-term career move since it didn't give his career a bump, didn't lead to better things. I mean, TLK is a great show - I was shocked how good it was in Season 1 and 2 aka BBC seasons - but Toby's role wasn't a star-making one. The obscurity of the show prevented even cast members in star-making roles from becoming stars, which sucks, but his role in particular was a tough sell. He was great which caught my attention, but it was a different animal for the show itself, a villain who was genuinely disturbing that didn't have the usual played-for-laughs likability other bad guys on the show. And then Netflix bought the show so Season 3, 4 and 5 were written by different people and handled by different showrunners and they didn't know what to do with his character so he fell into the background. But point being, he didn't go onto something bigger after Reign ended like another leading role or the most importan antagonist or a character with an aamzing arc who may started awful but bounced back like, I dunno, Jaime Lannister on GOT or Negan on TWD.

kerbear28

THIS. This is the point I was trying to get at earlier, but couldn't quite express. Perhaps there is no big mysterious reason why Toby isn't more "successful" and getting bigger, better roles. Maybe this is simply the career he is choosing to have right now because he wants to prioritize other things over gaining fame and acclaim. His family and friends, his social causes, his other artistic interests like drawing... the decision to focus on these and lead a more quiet, private life is perfectly valid. As long as the work he is doing is bringing him joy and fulfillment, that is all that matters. And if another great acting opportunity comes along that he wants to pursue, maybe his focus will shift again. We can't just project our hopes and goals for Toby onto him - even though I selfishly want him to become a big star because I want to see his lovely face on my screen more often.

I have no doubt that the industry bias against CW actors and shows exists, and that is a real shame. But that is a poor reflection on the INDUSTRY, not on the show itself or Toby's performance in it. I'm know I'm too idealistic, but why does every decision an actor makes have to be a calculated long-term career move? In a perfect world, it would just be about the work. Is this something they are excited about and can be proud of at the end of the day? I'm sure Toby made the choice to join Reign because he knew it would be an amazing experience for him. I mean, he got to learn and grow alongside fine actors and directors like Megan Follows. You have to take into account everything he gained from being on the show.