ajblondie17

Evelyn's mere existence on the show this season is recycled from Series 1. And JF could leave him alone all over again. He keeps doing that to Edith (poor, poor Edith), too.

Which is NOT to say that I want Evelyn and Edith together. Because...just no.

ETA: No matter which suitor she goes with, can we keep Brendan Patricks on the show just to look at?

Also, despite Mary saying that Pamuk did not force himself on her, the guy was seriously pushy and would not take no for an answer. Mary was clearly not the one in control of the situation. Which leads me to this: if S1 plots are being revisited, is Anna's storyline a redo of that, although clearly more cut and dried?

L i N d $ @ y

Yeah, at this point it's going to be Evelyn alone forever SL. Poor chap. He doesn't deserve it.

Hmm, good parallel between Mary/Pamuk and Anna/Green.

What I do like about him and the sole reason why I want him to end up with Mary is because he's a gentleman. He doesn't force himself for her to like him. In S1, he was sure that Mary likes Pamuk, even after death. And so he did not pursue her anymore. Same thing this time around. While he may still harbor some feelings for her, he doesn't directly express or show it. He's still hiding it. And he spoke nothing but nice things to Charles about Mary. He's sweet but his timing is not always right.

Sorry I missed this the first time but first off, welcome to and to the board! I hope your theories happen. I would love for them to be together but at this point, I'm getting really frustrated. We're down to the last ep & the CS and I need them to interact more or at least Evelyn admits his feelings to Mary so we can have something for these two.

Enora

Poor Napier really he doesn't deserve to be always out of the picture. He must jostle to try to have a place at the Mary's eyes, for she can think to him like a real suitor.
He seems not convinced by the love she can have for him and so lets his place in the battle, that's sad.

lassothemoon

That's the one thing I want him to do, just tell her he loves her, which is difficult because you know he's being tactful. PLEASE Fellowes!

Famu

I wish they change seating arrangements ugh

It is much better to try instead of proposing like Gillingham who Mary rejected, because one of the reasons that they dont know each other well.

He wants to prove himself and I dont find it sad. It will be sad if he didnt.

Famu

Guys give me more reasons to add under "why ship them?"

sharkygirl

Apologies if this is posted elsewhere..

Found this over on Tumblr http://25.media.tumblr.com/74fb8b28b...eixo3_1280.jpg

ugh. I don't get why Evelyn is still there if this already makes it clear who she's chosen??

This sucks. I don't get the feeling she's in love with Gingerbread... so why is there talk of her giving him an answer if he sacks Greene?

lassothemoon

It doesn't. It just says she has choices, not that she makes them. From the way Michelle spoke, it sounded like this will be unresolved.

Don't lose hope. She needs time and Evelyn's proven that he'll give her that.

As for reasons why you should ship them:

"I believe that marriage should be based on love, at least at the start."

"Shouldn't there be some mention of love?" - Mary after Carlisle's proposal.

So similar views on that...

He's known her for ten years, so I don't think he has any illusions about her--because above all he's been her friend for all this time.

He knows how to keep a secret.

He ( possibly ) broke his engagement for her before that was even cool.

He's loyal.

He defended her when Blake was insulting her.

He made her really smile ( because seriously, that scene...when's the last time she smiled like that? ) for the first time in forever...

He waited ten years, and he'll wait however long she needs until she's ready to move on/if she's ready to move on, and he'll still be there as a friend because his love is unconditional and he's not asking her for anything in return.

ajblondie17

Because he doesn't care about her "sullied" past. Between his comments right after the incident, and the fact that he addressed the rumors in London, we know that he know about Pamuk--yet here he is anyway.

Famu

I don't think the article states that her decision is made and Evelyn doesnt have a chance.

I am still hopeful and its a long way till the next episode and CS!!!

ajblondie17

We desperately need a confession of love. Just stop beating around the bush and man up already, Napier!

I wonder if the fact that they used to know each other could lead to Blake and Gillingham undoing one another's chances.

A girl can hope, right?

Famu

I hope we'll get one.

The way he approached Mary at the end of 4.07, he was pushing himself into things he's not used to it. Like being direct with his feelings.

You can do it Evelyn.

Rastapopoulos

Hello! I used to post in the Matthew/Mary thread a couple of times a year or two ago and I haven't been on this board for some time.

Anyhow...here are my thoughts on the Mary and her suitors carrousel:

1. Gilingham: I honestly think he's a fortune hunter. I haven't seen the episodes but have read a little about what happens. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have the impression that he's very pushy with her (persues her rather aggressively even though she simply isn't interested nor ready) and falls madly "in love" with her rather fast. Also, he asks 'innocently' Charles about the financial state of her estate and apparently in the next episode (4 x08) I've also heard that Gillingham is financially struggling with his estate (again, correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't watched DA yet). I don't know, maybe he does genuinely care about Mary but I think he has ulterior motives. There's something fishy about him.

Even if he is sincere in suit, I don't believe Mary will end up with him. She isn't in love with him at this point and don't see her falling for him either, once she's ready to move on.

2. Blake: Too obvious and too much like Matthew in a lot of ways - his views regarding the aristocracy, his dislike turns to love with Mary (which is soo Matthew/Mary and a commonly used trope in romcoms...very unoriginal and quite frankly : incredibly boring). I really hope JF isn't intending her to end up with him it would be so predictable (I mean EVERYONE (well almost everyone) thinks he'll be the winner) and so anti-climactic. That being said, I understand the argument in favor of him: he challenges Mary, which is what she needs and the other two suitors (Napier and Gillingham) don't do that. But....meh. I'm just not feeling them. I don't find them romantic at all and not seeing a potential love story in them. It also feels very rushed. They've only met an episode ago (4x06) and already they're falling for each other (or he is at any rate). That's too fast. I know that some time passes between the episodes but still...It's also not a good love story when the audience knows they'll end up together. That's just bad writing. I find them incredibly forced and contrived too. It's almost like JF shouting: here he is the MATTHEW replacement. The Blake character really feels like a replacement character not a character in his own right.

3. Then finally Napier. I'll always have a special place in my heart for Matthew and Mary but I like Evelyn the best for Mary. He might be the dark horse in the equation or maybe he'll end up alone all over again. Another poster mentioned that because he introduced Pamuk and now Blake it's unlikely him and Mary will happen. I don't agree: just because this situation occured before, doesn't mean it will have the same outcome. It would be a nice twist if it doesn't. I keep ping ponging in my mind about him and Mary: one minute I'm thinking she'll end up with him (for the reasons others have stated in this thread) and the next I'm thinking she won't end up with him. There are arguments both in favor and against in him. Many aren't really including him in the race for Mary (it's mainly Gillingham vs Blake) and he wasn't mentioned in the list of suitors originally. He seems like the one who has the least chance but maybe that's intentional to throw us all of the scent (I realise I might be giving JF too much credit here and it really is as it seems and she'll end up with Blake...zzzzzzz). Mary at this point only sees him as a friend and doesn't really welcome his hints of his interest, but perhaps that will change...or not. He's the only one who knows about the Pamuk thing and acted like a total gentleman about it. I don't know how Blake and Gillingham would react and be so understanding and forgiving if they knew. Also, I don't know if this is significant or not or if I'm reaching but we saw Evelyn and Mary walking outside Downton A bbey (it was always significant with Matthew and Mary, there are multiple scenes of them together with DA in the background.It was JF's way of showing that DA's future was linked with theirs). I'm not sure if there were scenes of Mary and her other suitors with DA in the background. But like I said, perhaps I'm grasping at straws.

The main reservation I have with Napier though, is that he doesn't challenge and fascinate her (and that is the one advantage Blake does have over him). He's bit of a lovesick puppy. Another is that she views him as a friend, so something needs to happen for her to start seeing him in a different light (like the way the Pamuk thing did with the way she viewed Matthew). Him confessing his feelings aren't going to make her more receptive towards him as she doesn't really welcome his hints. I'm not sure that if they do end up together that it would be a very passionate relationship, the way Matthew and Mary were. Then again, it would be interesting to see a different kind of love story: one that is based on friendship and respect. I really don't want to see a bland Matthew and Mary part 2 aka Mary and Blake. I hope that JF isn't using him as a plot device and to make him in love with Mary after all these years only to have her end up with one of the other two suitors seems really cruel.

4. I don't know if anyone has thought of this, but what if she ends up with NONE of the three suitors? JF's interview (at the Emmy's I think) is kind of stuck in my head. He said something along the lines of that the romances weren't really about being romances but about Mary coming back to life and learning to live again without Matthew by her side. The three men all have a bit of Matthew in them: Blake - Matthew's views and his at first antagonistic relationship with Mary; Gillingham - the gentle romantic and Napier - the sweet, progressive and understanding man.

ajblondie17

You know, I had similar thoughts after the sudden marriage proposal, but I'd forgotten about it by this episode. He mentioned to Mary when they met before that his parents' estate has been converted to a girls' school and they live in the dower house. He very well may be looking to be set up in a large estate again. And if Robert dies while George is still young, his stepfather (the only father he'll ever know) will be in quite a position of power. Even without that situation, Mary came into a great deal of money upon Matthew's death. I'm no expert on early 20th century legal specifications in Britain, but I imagine at that point in time marriage would have given him some control over her money. That said--isn't his current fiance an heiress anyway? So why bother with one cash cow when you already have another one? If that is his aim, however, I'd imagine Blake would be on the up and up on Gillingham's money situation. That could get interesting.


That's a good sign to me. As much as I wanted her to be with Matthew in the first two seasons, JF let us all wonder about it for two whole seasons with decoy fiances and the whole bit. It was maddening.


Honestly I'd rather her end up with none of them than have to watch Evelyn's heart break (again) seeing her pick one of the others.

Rastapopoulos

Yes, that would be very interesting and a good twist. As for exchanging one cash cow for another, maybe Mary's wealthier and maybe he really does have feelings for Mary. Perhaps it's to get both: money AND the girl.




Uh huh. The whole 'will they won't they' thing with Matthew and Mary was very frustrating indeed. But, with Napier and Mary I'm not sure if that is JF's intent or if it's wishful thinking on my part (shippers sometimes tend to overthink things or read too much into things).

ETA: Also, with Matthew and Mary we were left guessing if they would work it out but they WERE the 'root for' couple, there was A LOT of angst. The fact that they were apart and with other people but still pining for each other is what made their story so romantic. Whereas with the Napier/Blake/Gillingham/Mary quadrangle most believe she'll end up with Blake (I see it EVERYWHERE online), as HE is the most obvious choice. Next in line is Gillingham. Napier seems like the bottom of the pile and is written like the underdog (which might be a good sign or maybe it is as it seems. Who knows.)


Completely agree. It would also be very cruel and I feel he would have ruined the Napier character for no good reason. In season 1 he knew she wasn't interested and he had his dignity intact now he's a little bit pitiful (I was cringing during his 'competition' comment) so I hope there's a pay off to this. Fellows could have introduced Blake without having to use Napier. And Mary doesn't need three suitors, especially so soon after Matthew's death. I think viewers would have preferred seeing Mary grieve, come to terms with Matthew's death and be a mother and take an interest in the estate. The romance could have come later on.

P.S. Another thing: why is everyone on this thread saying Evelyn should confess his feelings? That isn't going to change anything. Mary was annoyed/ uncomfortable at his hints so what makes you guys think she's going to react any differently? It's clear that his romantic interest in her is unwanted. We need to see something from HER that she feels more than friendship for Napier. Him declaring his feelings aren't going to make Mary see him differently as long as she doesn't feel the same way. She doesn't see Blake as a suitor either but she's attracted to/fascinated by him. She isn't attracted to Evelyn.

I think she's letting Gillingham sweep her off her feet because she's vulnerable. She's lost the love of her life and maybe she just wants to love again and be loved. Plus, as Michelle Dockery keeps saying in her interviews aristocratic women like Mary needed to remarry. Gillingham in Mary's mind probably isn't a bad match: he's from her world, he's an old friend, he loves her (even though she definitely doesn't love him imho, but she cares him enough to consider his proposal and welcome his attentions) and since he's a nice guy and all, he'll do as a husband. And he probably reminds her of Matthew as well.