ChakotaysLover

there is NO OTHER that could be Rumplestiltskin.... at all! LOL! Hands down Robert Carlyle is the best!

Violet Faust

I'm pretty sure that Kitsowitz have said they created the role of Rumple with RC in mind (ditto Snow with GG; those were the two they built the show around).

Rhonwen

HI everyone,

Just checking in.
I hope everyone has had a great holiday.

I plan to be back on Jan 6th regularly and be able to take up mod duties again.

And thanks everyone for the well wishes for Alex.

crazy_diamond

Hope you are having a lovely holiday Rho

That he is

Miss Cam

Glad to hear things are going better. Enjoy the rest of the holidays as best you can!

fox24

I was thinking about hearts the other cause I am weird and I was wondering we haven't seen Rumples heart. Is it like Emmas it can't be taken since he's the dark one does it still play a role will we ever see it

Kelaine

I've been thinking this over, and I think I see my difficulty with the current story line and how I'm afraid it will unfold.

One of my problems is that A/E use too much of what someone once called "cheap grace." Characters have a quick change of heart and go from villain to hero without ever having to address what they've done wrong in the past or making more than token apologies.

Now, there are certain stories where that's appropriate. I think it's practically a necessary feature of more episodic storytelling where characters need to move on from one adventure to the next, week after week.

But, I don't think it fits Rumple's or Rumbelle's stories. Right now, it looks like Rumple is going to either die (again) to prove he's changed or he'll have to give up his powers, the same way Ingrid died to prove her change of heart.

The problem with giving up his powers is that Rumple's story focuses a lot on abuse. Rumple was abused by his father, his community, his wife, and others.

Then, he got a great deal of power and was able to stand up to the people who had abused him. Unfortunately, he went overboard (yes, he was cursed and this impacted his ability to see what he was doing, but that's a side issue to how this worked in a context of a narrative about coping with abuse). He got his main wake-up call when the way he'd changed cost him his son.

Rumple got partial control over his curse and his behavior problems so he could try and set things right with his son. SB helped him further, since he seemed much more in control of himself there.

Then, he had a lot really bad things happen to him that reopened every wound he had about being abused and added some new ones. He coped by getting out of control again, seeing the world in very hostile terms and being willing to go to great lengths to protect him and his.

So, what I feel like his story should address is how should a victim of abuse with a lot a psychological scars deal with it?

If Rumple has to give up his power, that's the wrong message. Getting back to cheap grace, a lot of abuse victims feel like they have to forgive their abuser. It's wrong to hold a grudge or not believe the abuser's claim to have changed (or the next claim, or the one after that). A lot get told that fighting back is wrong.*

The problem is, as some of Rumple's story shows, there's a degree of fighting back that's wrong. If you start turning people into snails and stepping on them for minor, accidental injuries, you have a problem.

That doesn't mean the choice is either/or. There's a line between becoming what you hated and being a victim.

Think of hoarders. In a lot of cases, hoarding gives people a sense of control. Coming in and cleaning out everything while the hoarder isn't there attacks that sense of control and makes things worse. Destroying Rumple's coping mechanism is not going to help. Even now, Rumple's power hasn't been destroyed. He's been removed from it, but he knows it's still there.

We especially don't need to see Rumple backed into a corner where he has to choose between being a helpless victim of the dagger and being helpless in another sense--and having this be the way he pays for his wrongdoing (if it happens while he's being forced to do something evil against his will by the dagger, it further muddies the message about how he's paying for his own wrongdoing).

A good ending? Rumple finds a balance. He finds a place where he can free himself from abuse without turning into a monster. He shows that strength and standing up for yourself isn't the same as aggression. Now, if that means being willing to give up his curse and its power, that's one thing. But it doesn't--and shouldn't--mean giving up power and strength.


*The following isn't a spoiler, it's just a really long-winded clarification. And I've taken up enough space.

crazy_diamond

I did think we might see some of that this season so far, but alas

Hopefully something in the 2nd part of the season

Ser_Dragon

You summed my thought perfectly. Rumpel shouldn't have to give up his power, not even for Belle. Should he decide to do that it should be because, he, and he himself decided to do so. But I do think he should keep his power but learning to use it with control. The problem I have with this show and that one of the things that made me quit before is the way A/E are if not always, often show magic as something bad or wrong. That "you don't need magic to be happy as long as you have love" or "Magic is wrong, we don't need it, we should get rid of it" is really getting on my nerves. I would really hate them with passion if in the end they play the card of Belle looking Rumpel with starry eyes "Oh Rumpel love, you can give up your magic now, you have me, isn't it enough?" and Rumpel going "oh but yes, you're right deary, oh blind was I?" No Belle, love is not always enough. Sorry to bring you the bad new.

And I can't agree more with you on the victims of abuse feeling they have to forgive their abuser. I mean why would you hold a grudge about your abuser seen that person keep claiming they have changed. "So you see I've done those cruel things to you but it's ok, now, I've changed, I've reformed so you can forgive me right?"

Well, no. Sorry, glad you saw the light but I won't forgive you because the things you've done to me will stay with me forever. Even If I've healed, they will stay.

Anyway, thanks Kelaine.

ChakotaysLover

Or he could have pulled a CORA and taken his own heart out, especally after Regina lied and told him Belle was dead, put it in a box, and hidden it away.

when all is said and done, we just don't know THAT much about Rumple, or any character for that matter. We need some histpry lesson ASAP! LOL!

Grace52373

Good points kelanie! Forgiveness doesn't always mean you forget what happened or become best buddies with the one who hurt you. Forgiveness as religion describes it, is for the person doing the forgiving and not the one who needs to be forgiven. God asks us to forgive so we don't hold that anger and negativity in our hearts because it is not good for us, not the one who did wrong, but for us whom has had a wrong done to them. People tend to think of forgiveness as let's hug and be besties and it isn't that at all. Forgiveness is to help the hurt person heal and move on.

Seamstress90

The problem is that the dagger makes Rumple particularly vulnerable to abuse, which is why he wants to get rid of it. And it seems that the only way to do it is to break the DO curse. But that doesn't have to mean that he is left completely powerless. He's practiced magic for centuries, so he might still be able to use it in some form. Or maybe he could find a new source of power? Something that doesn't make him a slave. He also has True Love with Belle, and TL is very powerful thing in this show. The most powerful magic of all, as Rumple himself has stated a few times. And unless Belle is now in possession of Rumple's property, he's still the richest man in town, which also gives him some kind of power.

On the other hand, power is not just a coping mechanism. When Rumple gave his speech at Neal's grave in the season premiere, he blamed the dagger for making him "a monster obsessed with power" and implied that he's not happy about that, and wants to change. Then he found the hat, and as the writers once said, Rumple can resist anything but temptation.. He's an addict. He's addicted to power, and that's another problem.

It's like drinking problem. It's okay to drink alcohol if done in moderation and responsibly, but if you drink too much, you get drunk and may become dangerous to people around you, and to yourself. And if you drink too much alcohol too often, it becomes a serious problem and may lead to addiction.

This can be applied to magic, too. It's not a problem if you use it in moderation and responsibly, like Emma and Regina do. But Rumple is like an alcoholic. He uses magic, his "alcohol", to cope with difficulties and to avoid feeling bad. When he is "drunk", he is dangerous and hurts people around him, even those he cares about. He also feels ashamed about his addiction (and when he's "sober", he often implies that he wants to quit and be "a better man". But of course he can't.) and tries to hide his bad habits from Belle. Those are signs of a serious problem, and I don't know if it's possible for Rumple to really find a balance.. He may have to abstain completely if he doesn't want to lose control again. But if he gives up his curse, who knows?

Ser_Dragon

Well, everybody, I think it's time for me to leave. I mean this show is not the best thing I ever seen in TV but it's not even good. It's just plain bad. After kelaine post I've pondered for some time. First Kelaine it's not your post that made me take that decision, not at all, in fact I was slowly driven away by the mediocrity of A&E writing.

Ok, here some of my reason:

First we have Regina, a woman who ordered the slaughtering of an entire village, who killed Snow father, who tried to have her killed many time, who cast the curse (and I don't care if it was Rumpel the responsible for her doing so) that have snow and Charming separated from there girl for twenty years, we have that woman hanging with Emma for a drink? Like buddy buddy, really?

And not only that but strolling around in town?

And Hook? Who tried to kill Belle, twice? I can't develop this one because spoiler aren't allowed here, but I really hate that idiotic character.

And Rumpel, one day good, one day bad, one day the heroes, the next the evil monster that must be dealt with.

That show is not about hope, it's about stupidity, severe memory lost (yes I'm looking at you Snow, and you Emma) and hypocrisy.

So I say stop. I can't take it anymore. This show don't entertain me anymore. I won't even hang around OUaT forums anymore because I've lost all interest in it. I don't care for what will happens to even Rumpel. Sad but true.

By the way, I hope it's the last thing A&E will ever do on TV.

By everyone, it was fun for the time it lasted, and I met so really interesting peoples in there

crazy_diamond

Ser, sorry to hear that...

I'll be here to the very end, Rumple is my joint fave character so I want to see how it's all going to end...

I hope so, he really needs help, but atm he is right in the depths of his addiction regarding what has happened, and who knows what he has become in those 6 weeks time jump...

Grace52373

Ser, I am sorry your not watching anymore. It was nice getting to know you on the boards. I understand though because I am just as frustrated with A&E, the BA's, and even some of the mods here. I wrote a letter to ABC asking that they show more of Rumple and Belle and how popular they are and I hope that helps. If things keep going downhill, I doubt this show will last even as long as the confusing mess that was Lost! It started out so well and than the writers got caught up in their favorites and their new toys. They have a lot to learn about how to run a show imo. This is an ensemble show and it no longer feels like that. They need to show conflict, not tell us on twitter or interviews. They also need to respect all their actors, not just their favorites, and they need to respect their fans.

I am going to tape the second half so let me know how it goes. I can't watch anymore and hope things get better from one show to the next. I don't trust these writers anymore and the show is not as entertaining as it once was.