BL.Arinna_1982

That's the thing though. It wasn't just a sex scene with them. It was love making one.

PhoenixRising

Yes, I know it was, Arinna. That's why it meant more. But it could've shown us a bit more, too.

Mignonette

Well that's the thing, Alex, we don't know if Lu was just creeping into his bed or if she'd spent the night with him. Sure, he was surprised when she woke him by stroking his face, but he may have reacted that way because he was in a sound sleep and had just almost been killed in that explosion. His nervous system would've been on a hair trigger.

When he woke up all the way and realized it was Lu touching him, he wasn't surprised AT ALL to find her in his bed. If she'd just crept in with him, wouldn't he have said something like, "Why are you here? What are you doing? Where's your husband?", etc. He said nothing, just started kissing her neck and fingers. SHE'S the one who ruined the moment by saying she had everything she wanted including her husband. It always pissed him off when she brought up Alf. Ces never showed her his anger directly, but he was a very jealous and possessive man. His biting and sucking her finger was sexually aggressive. He wanted to remind her that "her husband" couldn't turn her on like he could and if he wasn't in her bed, then she did NOT have everything she wanted.

I've heard that other writers were often in conflict with NJ about the incest. There were some who wanted Ces & Lu to end up together, so lots of compromising had to be done. I don't believe the script NJ wrote for season 4 was anything more than sour grapes and perhaps an effort to get the fans off his back. He's not a stupid man, so he knew that script would never have been taken seriously. It was too outrageous. He'd said he had more than enough material for another season and then all of a sudden, he didn't. My feeling is that he was pissed at having his ideas for season 3 thrown out by majority consensus, so he grudgingly went along with his contractual obligation.

Perhaps NJ was conflicted in his own mind about the incest. He'd researched the family for 15 years and said Ces & Lu were "utterly fascinated with each other" and shared an "intense life-long love", but then said he didn't believe the incest occurred I've researched the **** out of this couple and have no doubt it DID happen. No one has been able to prove or disprove it, but common sense says there are too many coincidences. In the end, people see what matches up to their belief system, so if incest is believed repugnant, they'll see no incest. If the evidence is blatant, then they will villainize the incestuous couple. It's interesting that NJ has introduced the incest storyline in his other works, so I'm sticking with my belief that he has some kind of fascination/abhorrence conflict around the subject.

PhoenixRising

Hi, Lila!

Well, I think that scene implied that Cesare was alone in his bed until Lucrezia snuck in. Otherwise, why would he first grab her neck as if he were expecting an attack? He'd have assumed it was her if she had spent the night, wouldn't he? Yeah, he may have been on edge because of the explosion, but I still think he was caught off guard and wasn't expecting her to be there. No, he wasn't surprised that she was there once he realized who it was, but that might've been because she had already snuck into his bed once before on her wedding night. I think Cesare assumed that he didn't need to ask her where Alfonso was because he knew at that point that he had her heart and not Alfonso.

Yeah, it did annoy Cesare whenever the subject of Alfonso came up, but Lucrezia seemed to shift back and forth from being tired and aggravated by Alfonso to worrying for his safety, which I think was confusing. But I do think that his kissing her neck and biting her fingers was him being possessive of her. Yeah, I heard the same thing about The Borgias writers regarding Cesare and Lucrezia's relationship. I think it would've been very immature of Neil Jordan to tank all of season 4 with that Apocalypse script just because of that, though. Yeah, I don't believe his excuse of not having enough material for a fourth season either. I think he was just being petulant. But I don't know why he'd have an issue since Mario Puzo wrote about the incest in The Family, and Jordan had been heavily influenced by The Godfather when developing The Borgias. As for his other works, I think that if Jordan was willing to be daring in those movies, I can't understand why he'd have a problem with this. Oh well...

BL.Arinna_1982

PhoenixRising

Beautiful pics, Arinna!

BL.Arinna_1982

They are.

Mignonette

What scene is that bottom picture from, Arinna? I don't recognize it.

BL.Arinna_1982

It's in episode 2 I think, season 3. When Cesare found out about Paolo being killed and he was about to take Lucrezia home.

PhoenixRising

Hi, Lila!

We're gonna need a new thread soon. Any title ideas?

Mignonette

Lucrezia: "Don't you love God, Cesar?" Cesar: "More than I love you?"

BL.Arinna_1982

I like it.

PhoenixRising

That sounds good, Lila. Let's use that.

BL.Arinna_1982

We can use that.

PhoenixRising

New thread: http://www.fanforum.com/f367/%7Bcesa...sare-63220250/