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Old 02-18-2019, 02:07 PM
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{Cesare ♥ Lucrezia} #52 ~ "Don't you love God, Cesare?" - Lucrezia; "More than I love you?" - Cesare

Welcome to the 52nd
Cesare Lucrezia
Appreciation Thread




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Credit






1. Any ship with its own love theme screams "True Love"
2. No couple can make nose-bumping a major turn-on
3. Because he only smiles when he's with her
4. Because even dinner knives ship them
5. Because he constantly misses her
6. Because if anything happens to her, he'd die
7. Because if it's up to him, she'll never marry
8. Because they're like Abelard and Heloise
9. Because any other couple on the show who think they're like Abelard and Heloise are F.A.K.E.
10. Because she'll never love a husband like she loves him
11. Because "I should keep you here in chains. I suspect you would be happier." And so would we!
12. Because she misses his hands and he misses her face.
13. Because he'll never forgive her scumbag husband.
14. Because killing her husband is easy and Cesare doesn't want easy.
15. Because he's the first person in the family to hold her baby.
16. Because she doesn't need her baby-daddy when Cesare is around
17. Because he was pacing like a true father-to-be when she went into labor
18. Because she'll always have him
19. Because even history ships them. They're so canon.
20. Because he carried her over the threshold on her wedding night
21. Because they're the ideal lovers.


Credit




Credit


Fanvids
My Love | My Heart | Sweet Lavina | Flames | Ships | You're In My Veins | Under The Sheets



Fanfiction
The Ideal - Recommendations on tumblr
Dark Paradise - A (hopefully) Comprehsive Borgias Fanfiction List



Links
Cesare ♥ Lucrezia on tumblr
Absolutely Enraptured on livejournal

Credit




"If you read the history, you find these two, this brother and sister, were utterly fascinated by each other. . . ." -- Neil Jordan, TVGuide.ca
". . . it's a story about two people who are absolutely enraptured with each other." -- Neil Jordan, TVGuide.ca
"I kind of want them to be almost the ideal lovers if they were not brother and sister . . . it's so protective as to being almost dangerous." (from Showtime clip, "Justified")
"I think we chose to play pure love." -- Francois Arnaud, nymag.com
"I think Holliday [Grainger, who plays Lucrezia] and I had a really strong chemistry from the start, and I just really enjoy working with her." -- Francois Arnaud, nymag.com
"There is a deep love and affection...They always have their hands in each other’s faces, but it is innocent.” -- Francois Arnaud, antcomic.com
"You must promise you'll be gentle, for this is love, not war, we are engaging in, my dear brother." -- Lucrezia, The Family
"...you, my dear sister, may teach me more about love and loyalty than I have learned so far..." -- Cesare, The Family
Though in every other instance [Cesare] was the aggressor, with [Lucrezia] - even here- he seemed under her power. -- The Family
"I can't imagine loving anyone as I love you in this moment." Lucrezia, The Family
"Come," [Cesare] said, drawing [Lucrezia] close. "I need you now. For you are what is real in my life." -- The Family
"It is not the pain of your kisses you see," she said. "They are the tears of my longing for you." -- Lucrezia, The Family
C: "To bed him is not the joy it is with me?" L: "My dear love, it is the difference between heaven and hell for me." -- The Family
"There will never be anyone like you for me, for you were my first love." -- Lucrezia to Cesare, The Family
"It was with you I first shared the secrets of my body, as well as the secrets of my heart and the most intimate thoughts of my mind." -- L to C, The Family
Suddenly the sweet face of his sister appeared, and he saw it as a sign, a symbol of their love. -- The Family
Her face had been the vision he'd followed into his victories. -- The Family
"I wish no barrier between us, my brother, my lover, my friend." -- Lucrezia, The Family
"...from this night on, all that is left of my passion will rest with you." -- L to C, The Family
"You must live for me... For what other reason should I live?" -- C to L, The Family
L: "Don't you love God, Cesare?" C: "More than I love you?" -- The Poisoned Chalice
L: "And when will I marry?" C: "Never, if I can help it." -- The Poisoned Chalice
"If anything happened to her... I'd die." -- Cesare, The Poisoned Chalice
L: "I think I shall never have another friend like him." C: "You'll always have me." -- The Moor
"If you hate beauty, dear sis, you must hate yourself." -- Cesare, The French King
L: "I've missed those hands." C: "And I've missed that face." -- Nessuno



Credit: May



~Quotes~

Lucrezia: "Don't hate me."
Cesare: "I regret many feelings towards you, hate is not one of them."

Cesare: "The whole world whispers, you and I are lovers. Should we prove them right?"

Lucrezia: "I want to die, brother."
Cesare: "Will you not talk like that, please!"

Cesare: "Can I hold him?"
Lucrezia: "And wake him? That would be cruelty indeed."
Cesare: "I must hold you then."

Lucrezia: "But we never before had secrets between us."
Cesare: "Some things are better left unsaid."
Lucrezia: "So I must divine then, the dark cloud on my brother's soul."

Cesare: "You are criminally well informed, sis. But I trust your soul is still of the purest white."

Lucrezia: "You will be a handsome Cardinal. Let me hug you!"

Cesare: "Lucrezia, sister, share my fortune and my fate. And remember that wherever I may be, a part of me will always be yours."
Lucrezia: "As I also belong to you, brother."

Lucrezia: "No one here loves me as I was loved by you. I've tried everything, Cesare. No one wants to hear our name."

Lucrezia: "My soul dies when I imagine never seeing you again."

Cesare: "Lucrezia, Lucia, forgive me. All will be well if you forgive me. But you must live, sweet sister, live. We are one blood, one heart, one spirit."
Lucrezia: "Cesare, love me!"
Cesare: "For all eternity.

Cesare: "Cesare Borgia and Lucrezia, we shall be remembered. Be faithful only to me not to him, the unholy father who prays to a nameless god. You shall have the world, not the hereafter. And your name eternal."
Lucrezia: "I shall be duchess of Ferrarra, it's enough for me."
Cesare: "In name but nothing more."
Lucrezia: "In name and nothing more."

Cesare: "I promised you a heart, sister."
Lucrezia: "Whose? Your own?"

Lucrezia: "What does it say of us, brother, that you promise me this and I would accept?"

Lucrezia: "Cesare? I would ask you something.”
Cesare: “Then ask and it is yours.”
Lucrezia: “I would ask you to marry me.”
Cesare: “As you wish. My word is my word. We shall run away. Change our names, perhaps. Live out our days in some small fishing village by the coast. where no one will ever guess who we once were.”
Lucrezia: "To Alfonso."
Cesare: "Yes, yes, I know."

Cesare: "My love for my sister outweighs my grief for my brother."

Cesare: "Are you a shepherd of souls now?
Lucrezia: "And I see before me a lost sheep."
Cesare: "Utterly lost, my love."
Lucrezia: "Then, by hook or by crook I shall save you. You may kiss my ring!"

Cesare: "Don't I know how to organize a party for my sister?"
Lucrezia: "Thank you, Cesare!"
Cesare: "And I think I've done well. Look. I'm the one who chose the guests."
Lucrezia: "They're all courtesans."
Cesare: "Did you desire monks and nuns?"
Lucrezia: "Oh, no! No formalities!"

Lucrezia: "So then, I shall become a nun. For I shall never love a husband as I love you, Cesare."



* a family scene with Lucrezia, Cesare and the baby
* a dance laden with sexual tension
* a kiss on the lips
* secret whispers and clandestine trysts noticed by others
* rumors of incest spreading just to see Cesare and Lucrezia reactions
* a fight between them ending in a scene with lots of emotional tension
* angsty scene with the both of them crying
* jealous Lucrezia and jealous Cesare
* Cesare defending Lucrezia's honour, even what he is doing is mostly lying because something did happen. And vice versa.
* more reactions on how others perceive the relationship, e.g. Juan
* Cesare helping Lucrezia take care of the baby
* Lucrezia going after someone to protect Cesare
* Cesare killing someone because of his feelings for Lucrezia
* Lucrezia wishing the baby was Cesare's
* Lucrezia sitting on Cesare's lap at some official function
* C&L riding out to the forest, away from prying eyes
* C&L admitting their love and feelings for each other in a dramatic scene
* C&L talking further about their runaway plan, this time more serious. Calling each other husband/wife, talking about having children and what they would look like etc.
* Cesare standing silenty in the door opening, watching Lucrezia brushing her hair and holding is breath when he sees a bear shoulder.
* Cesare receiving a hairlock from Lucrezia.
* Cesare watching over a dying Lucrezia, after she lost her baby, begging her not to leave him (sobbing). Otherwise he doesn't want to live and everything he does will be useless without her.
* Lucrezia performing a seductive dance, Cesare is watching her while new feelings arouse in him. Perhaps at the famous chestnut banquet?
* Lucrezia seeing Cesare masked
* Lucrezia watching Cesare taking a bath (inside or outside)
* Lucrezia telling Cesare how handsome he is, while stroking his facial features with her finger.
* Lucrezia asking Cesare to give her a child, so she'll always have him near (a bit silly, but one can only dream).
* And of course: a long romantic kiss and a steamy bedscene!!!
* Lucrezia getting drunk after Alfonso's murder and confessing her conflicting feelings to Cesare


Credit

* * *



#1 Lucrezia: "I've missed those hands." - Cesare: "And I've missed that face."
#2 Lucrezia: "And if my husband proves ungallant?" - Cesare: "I shall cut out his heart with a dinner knife and serve it to you."
#3 Cesare: "I beg you not to worry about it, sis. I will find a solution, I swear!"
#4 Lucrezia: "Don't you love God, Cesare?" - Cesare: "More than I love you?"
#5 Cesare lays Lucrezia on her bed and kisses her cheek at her wedding night.



Past Threads

{01}{02}{03}{04}{05}{06}{7}{8}{9}{10}{11}{12}{13}{14}{15}{16}{17}{18}{19}{20}{21}{22}{23}{24}{25}{26}{27}{28}{29}{30}
{31}{32}{33}{34}{35}{36}{37}{38}{39}{40}{41}{42}{43}{44}{45}{46}{47}{48}{49}{50}{51}





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Old 02-18-2019, 06:07 PM
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TFTNT Alex! And I'm happy you used my suggestion for the thread title
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:31 PM
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You're welcome, Lila! It was a good title.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:52 PM
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tftnt, Alex!
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Old 02-20-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)
You're welcome, Lila! It was a good title.
Thanks, Alex

I remember reading older posts complaining that Ces didn't declare his love for Lu like she did for him when she asked, "Where is your love for me?" and then cried out to him, "I love you!" in s3e4. It's a woman thing, I think, that we wanted to hear him say those 3 words after they had sex. Thinking about it from Ces' POV, as a man and with his stoic character, he didn't feel those words were necessary. It probably didn't even occur to his masculine mind that she might've wanted to hear them He felt that telling her he would've killed the king, violently ripping his heart out of his body, but didn't for the good of the family - which included her - was proof of his love.

He had verbalized his deep love for her many times: "Don't you love God, Cesar? More than I love you? Did Abelard and Heloise love each other? With a love as PURE and ALL-CONSUMMING as the love of God. If anything happened to her, I'd die." His actions showed his love for her: Hatching up the idea for her annulment to Sforza when she told him about the baby and then carrying out the plan. Keeping his promise to her by murdering Sforza - at great risk to himself. (That rash action imperiled the family and forced Lu into another marriage for an alliance, but Ces was blinded by love and didn't think things through). And last, but not least, killing Alfonso and taking Lu for himself.

So while he didn't utter the words, "I love you", his actions proved his love for her. Anyone can say the words, but Ces was a man of action and his actions were proof.

Last edited by Mignonette; 02-20-2019 at 02:51 PM
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:34 PM
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You're welcome, Arinna!

You're welcome, Lila!

Oh, I understand that part, Lila. I did figure that it was a thing with Lucrezia that was more about her emotions and not really about her questioning Cesare's love for her. She was just really angry, not just at him, but the entire situation because, as usual, both she and Cesare were once again at the mercy of their father's position as Pope. And perhaps Cesare didn't feel the words were necessary because while he was also a puppet for his father's schemes, he didn't have to suffer nearly as much as Lucrezia. But yes, he finally did tell her those things as affirmation of his love for her.

Oh, I always knew that he would eventually kill Sforza for that. Even though that's not what happened in the history, on the show there's no way anyone does that to Lucrezia and lives. You're right, after bedding Caterina and killing Giovanni, Cesare had to fight his way out of Forli with that knife with Giovanni's blood that he wanted to give Lucrezia. That was awesome.
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:52 PM
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Sforza has it coming since the beginning.
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post)
Sforza has it coming since the beginning.
I wanted to that smug look off his face at their wedding and knew from the way he spoke to Lu that he would mistreat her. Cesar knew it, too. You could tell from the way he kept sneering at Sforza while dancing with Lu. I really wish he’d been the one to take Lu’s virginity (as he did in The Family & hopefully did IRL). I don’t care at all that it was incest: Ces loved her and a woman’s first time - especially at such a very young age - can affect the way she views love, sex, men, and herself as a woman for the rest of her life.
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Old 02-21-2019, 03:53 PM
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I wanted to that smug look off his face at their wedding and knew from the way he spoke to Lu that he would mistreat her. Cesar knew it, too. You could tell from the way he kept sneering at Sforza while dancing with Lu. I really wish he’d been the one to take Lu’s virginity (as he did in The Family & hopefully did IRL). I don’t care at all that it was incest: Ces loved her and a woman’s first time - especially at such a very young age - can affect the way she views love, sex, men, and herself as a woman for the rest of her life.
So did I, Lila. I know that in real life he was totally different and kind of a wimp, but the Giovanni Sforza on the show was just made for the audience to hate him and want Cesare to kill him. They foreshadowed Cesare doing that very thing with his "ungallant" promise to Lucrezia in 'The Moor' in season 1. And you're right, this is why I actually like the idea of Cesare taking Lu's virginity in The Family, to make sure that her memory of her first time was with Cesare.
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Old 02-23-2019, 01:32 PM
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I've actually stopped reading The Family up until that moment.
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Old 02-23-2019, 02:54 PM
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You didn't real all of it, Arinna?
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:08 PM
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I've actually stopped reading The Family up until that moment.
But Cesar taking Lu's virginity was one of the best parts, Arinna. It established the entire course of the story

The first time I read it, Rodrigo's involvement in Cesar's deflowering of Lu creeped me out. Not because it was his idea for Ces to do it, but because he participated in it by guiding Ces' hands over her naked body giving her pleasure and then watching them. But after reading it through again and thinking about it, it didn't feel like Rodrigo was being voyeuristic. Lu asked him to be there and even though Ces, at 17, had already been with many women, he didn't know anything about pleasing a woman. When they'd both undressed, Ces jumped on Lu and scared her, so Rodrigo stepped in to teach Ces how to please a woman and treat her with tenderness.

If Rodrigo hadn't taught Ces how to truly MAKE LOVE to her, I doubt Lu would've fallen in love with him - or vice versa - because the experience wouldn't have had triggered those feelings for them. It would've just been sex and Lu would've been scared and probably resented the whole experience.

I think it's really really easy for some people (not us shippers ) to just focus on the sex or the incest, but to do that misses the point and the depth of what was happening. Rodrigo intended for Lu to bond so strongly to Ces that he'd always have her primary loyalty. He knew that the man who took a woman's virginity assumed a powerful position in her life.

But what Rodrigo didn't think about was how taking Lu's virginity would affect Ces! He'd only thought about it affecting Lu. After they'd made love (to the point of exhaustion ), Lu thanked Ces and told him she loved him more than anything. Ces didn't say anything, but the way he looked at her startled Rodrigo, because it was the look of a man utterly and completely lost in love with a woman Two of my favorite lines from The Family summed it up perfectly: Love EMPOWERS a woman, but IMPERILS a man. Lucrezia loved with a heart full enough to tame the wildest beast, so without knowing it, she became the WHIP.
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:46 PM
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And like I've said, that was the last thing I've read.
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Old 02-24-2019, 02:23 PM
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Wait, Rodrigo had to teach Ces how to make love to Lu, Lila? Man, I thought that Rodrigo had Ces make love to Lu because he just knew that Ces had what it took. I don't like the idea of Rodrigo guiding Cesare's hands over her body, though.

But yeah, I do think that some people miss the depth of Ces and Lu's relationship and just focus on the incest, like they were the Lannisters or something. But it goes way beyond that with Ces and Lu.
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Old 02-24-2019, 02:50 PM
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And like I've said, that was the last thing I've read.
Oh ok, gotcha, Arinna. I misunderstood and thought you'd stopped reading BEFORE that part - the best part

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Wait, Rodrigo had to teach Ces how to make love to Lu, Lila? Man, I thought that Rodrigo had Ces make love to Lu because he just knew that Ces had what it took. I don't like the idea of Rodrigo guiding Cesare's hands over her body, though.

But yeah, I do think that some people miss the depth of Ces and Lu's relationship and just focus on the incest, like they were the Lannisters or something. But it goes way beyond that with Ces and Lu.
Yeah, Alex, Rodrigo did that He told Lucrezia of his plan and she agreed with it. He gave her the choice of which of her brothers she wanted to take her virginity. As he's talking to them, she's leaning on Ces' shoulder while Juan is by himself She and Ces are already very close, so it was no surprise that she chose him.

Rodrigo had her take off all her clothes (she was only 13, but that's the IRL age she married Sforza ). Juan wasn't allowed to be there. She asked Rodrigo and Cesar if they thought her body was beautiful and of course, they both said yes. Cesar took off his clothes and it was very obvious that he found Lu's body attractive He was so excited that he literally pushed Lu onto the bed and jumped on top of her, scaring her and making her cry out to Rodrigo for help Oh Ces....

Rodrigo scolded Ces that although he'd been with many women at age 17, he had no idea how to pleasure them. Ces was angry, but so young that his lust wasn't...softened Rodrigo put his hand over Ces' and stroked Lu's breasts and ***** giving her an orgasm and then told Ces to be gentle, but to "take her" - which he did - several times until they were both exhausted and satisfied, lying cuddled in each other's arms.

Like I said, it sounds so creepy to read, but if Rodrigo hadn't intervened and taught Ces how to make love to a woman, I doubt Ces & Lu would've fallen in love they way they did.

Mario Puzo did years of research on the Borgias and I wonder how much of his book was based on what he'd learned and then assimilated into the story. It was fiction, but I know from my own research that it was pretty factual throughout.

Last edited by Mignonette; 02-24-2019 at 03:02 PM
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