[PhoenixRising]

Hi, Lila! And you're welcome. I know what it's like to have stress when you're studying. But I know you can make it through.

Oh, so fortitude was the word? Glad I got it right.

You think that this is the reason she tried to make things work with Alf? Yeah, I get that Rodrigo didn't give her many options, but I think she was also pining for Cesare and getting frustrated that they were always apart. After she had sex with him that one time, she was really messed up. The "cloud" that descended on her was more like the cloud that she was walking on after that.

Oh, I think Lu forgot about a lot when Ces kissed her. She forgot about Paolo, the painter guy, Alfonso, and pretty much everyone. Oh, and I loved that part where she said "you look but don't touch." OMG, when does a sister talk like that to her brother?
Yep, she was definitely on a mission and she wasn't going to play the ingenue any longer, she was going to play the seductress. After all, if Cesare could do it with women, why couldn't she do it with him? She probably remembered all the times she saw him with other women and knew how to get to him. She liked spying on him, you know?

[BL.Arinna_1982]

You're so right about the spying, Alex.

[PhoenixRising]

I know, Arinna.

[Mignonette]

Hi Alex! Hi Arinna!

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) You think that this is the reason she tried to make things work with Alf? Yeah, I get that Rodrigo didn't give her many options, but I think she was also pining for Cesare and getting frustrated that they were always apart. After she had sex with him that one time, she was really messed up. The "cloud" that descended on her was more like the cloud that she was walking on after that. Oh, I think Lu forgot about a lot when Ces kissed her. She forgot about Paolo, the painter guy, Alfonso, and pretty much everyone. Oh, and I loved that part where she said "you look but don't touch." OMG, when does a sister talk like that to her brother? Yep, she was definitely on a mission and she wasn't going to play the ingenue any longer, she was going to play the seductress. After all, if Cesare could do it with women, why couldn't she do it with him? She probably remembered all the times she saw him with other women and knew how to get to him. She liked spying on him, you know?

Oh yes, she did like spying on him But he's the one who enabled her to do it - leaving his window open & rewarding her for doing exactly what he wanted her to do: see him naked having sex so she'd desire his body like he did hers. Little did he know, that she already did Their sex games remind me of the consummation scene where they have sex, but don't actually have sex - you know what I mean? They both knew how to pull each other's strings, but Lu completely out-seduced him. His armoury kiss was minor league compared to her naked major league maneuver Alex, doesn't every brother talk to his sister that way: you look but don't touch - while naked in bed?

Yeah, I think that's why she told Ces she thought Alf was good and that she might be able to love him, cause she'd resigned herself to her father's demands. It's not like she could marry Ces - oh wait - she DID ask him to marry her & he gave her a scenario of how they could do it. Do you remember how his smile changed to sadness when Lu said "to Alfonso"? There was a tiny flash of angry jealousy before the sadness, but he hid it from her. When he asked if she loved Alf, he couldn't look at her. The same thing when he asked if she loved Paolo - he hung his head not looking at her then either. He was afraid of the answer, but just had to know! Poor Ces

She was definitely walking on a cloud after the night with Ces! I don't understand why she said "a cloud descended on me, my heart". Maybe it's my lack of engish skill, but doesn't that sentence imply a negative? Did she see falling so deeply in love with him as a bad thing? Cause she was elated to see him the next morning

Good point about Lu pining for Ces - they both always pined for each other when they were apart. Don't you wish there was some way to go back in history and know if they felt that way IRL and be able to actually meet & get to know them?

[BL.Arinna_1982]

[PhoenixRising]

OMG, I love that scene, Arinna!


Hi, Lila!

Yes, you do have a point. It's not like Cesare was being discreet or anything. He didn't seem to avoid his little sister spying on him with his sexual conquests. So yeah, he was an enabler to an extent. Do you think she actually watched everything?

Ohhh, the consummation scene is a good analogy. From early on it was like they were already being romantic without actually having sex. Yeah, I get what you mean. Cesare was always good at flirting with her, but she surprised him when she went into full-on seduction mode, which he wasn't used to from her. Yep, she answered his armory kiss with naked temptation.

Oh yeah, that was their conversation back in season 2, how she thought that Alfonso was someone she could love... although it did seem obligatory for her. And yeah, she did ask Cesare to marry her, although not literally. To conduct the ceremony. Yes, I think they both played that scene very well. Even though they were playing around you got the sense that if it were possible, Ces and Lu would actually go for it. I also did notice that Ces really didn't like discussing her other lovers with her that much. Even if she did have sex with them, he wanted her love to be his and his alone.

Well, a cloud descending on you could be negative, Lila. Sometimes we say that we have a dark cloud over our heads when things are down and depressing. But other times a "cloud" could also mean confusion, something that clouds our minds and makes things foggy, hazy, and uncertain. Perhaps that cloud that descended on her was her realization that she loved Cesare and her uncertainty as to what to do next. How does she give herself to her husband when her heart is compromised? And how can she live without the one she loves, especially when that person is forbidden to her?

Oh, going back in time and asking them that question would be great, Lila. But I'm too afraid that Cesare might have us put to death or something, because he might think we were spies or a threat. But yeah, it would be nice to go back and see how they really were with each other when no one else was around.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

I know you do. That's why I posted it.

[PhoenixRising]

And thank you for doing that.

[Mignonette]

Thanks, Arinna! That's all us shippers' favorite scene, and I bet it's even François & Holly's, too, cause they said they'd been wanting it written that way!

Hi Alex!

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) Yes, you do have a point. It's not like Cesare was being discreet or anything. He didn't seem to avoid his little sister spying on him with his sexual conquests. So yeah, he was an enabler to an extent. Do you think she actually watched everything?

No, I don't THINK she watched everything, I KNOW she did cause the scene showed it! Man, Alex, you really need to do a rewatch with Arinna & me, cause you've forgotten too much - we must save you!

And no, I don't think MY Cesar would kill me, because he was too perfect - but he might kill you cause you're not a beautiful woman He didn't kill women or children, only men - uh oh, you'd have to run, Alex! No, if anything he'd probably throw down some Casanova-style moves, cause he was such a womanizer. If I was time traveling with penicillin, I might even consider overlooking his syphilis. I mean, DAMN, he was fine! Maybe a girl could just not look at his sores, and focus on his "assets"? Decisions decisions.

Ah ok, I understand now, thanks for explaining the descending cloud meaning for me! I love your analogy of "clouding her mind" & her path was definitely no longer clear or certain. Everything changed for her. Maybe that tear she shed when she said that line reflected her agony over being so in love with him, but forbidden to be with him. That makes me cry for her just imagining how she must have felt OMG!

Yeah, Ces totally enabled her to spy on him by deliberately leaving his bedroom window unlatched! Do you remember in s3e1 when Caterina's assassin told the nursemaid to leave the bedroom window unlatched so he could get into Vanozza's house to kill them all in their sleep? Same window! It locks. He knew the thumping noise was Lu - he said "Lucrezia!" when he heard it and was laughing as he chased her. How did he know it was her if she hadn't done it before? And since she'd obviously done it before, why didn't he just latch his window? Hmmm? Notice in the vid that window is only a few feet right over his bed - a direct view of him naked, having sex. So, yeah, he didn't just enable her, he WANTED her to do it. And he wasn't being quiet in bed either! It's like he was luring her to watch - just like she lured him to her bed while she was naked. That's why he REWARDED her with affection. Did he punish her? Nope

Here's the scene:

[BL.Arinna_1982]

They were actually happy.

[PhoenixRising]

Hi, Lila! Thanks for the vid! OMG, now I remember that Lucrezia actually was watching while Cesare was having sex with that woman. Preview of things to come?

Yeah, I have forgotten a bit. I wanna do a re-watch, but I have to find a way to get the episodes because my damn DVD player is broken and I can't watch my DVDs.

Well, maybe Cesare wouldn't kill us, but he might lock us up until he found out what we were doing there. Yeah, I'd have to run before he tossed me to Micheletto.

OMG, penicillin? Are you Claire Fraser from Outlander now? And I hope Cesare's womanizer moves don't make you faint right in front of him.

You're welcome. Yeah, I do think that after making love to Cesare, Lucrezia's mind was clouded by indecision about what to do next. Ohhh, very good point about that tear she shed. Was she shedding that tear for herself, Cesare, or Alfonso, knowing that she could never really love him now?

Was it the same window? I thought the room we saw Lucrezia spying on Cesare in season 1 was a totally different room, and the window was facing the courtyard where they both laid down together on the grass. But you're right, he wasn't really being that quiet, which is why I'm surprised that no one heard the noise coming from Cesare's room when he and Lucrezia were having sex on her wedding night.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) Hi, Lila! Thanks for the vid! OMG, now I remember that Lucrezia actually was watching while Cesare was having sex with that woman. Preview of things to come? Yeah, I have forgotten a bit. I wanna do a re-watch, but I have to find a way to get the episodes because my damn DVD player is broken and I can't watch my DVDs. Well, maybe Cesare wouldn't kill us, but he might lock us up until he found out what we were doing there. Yeah, I'd have to run before he tossed me to Micheletto. OMG, penicillin? Are you Claire Fraser from Outlander now? And I hope Cesare's womanizer moves don't make you faint right in front of him. You're welcome. Yeah, I do think that after making love to Cesare, Lucrezia's mind was clouded by indecision about what to do next. Ohhh, very good point about that tear she shed. Was she shedding that tear for herself, Cesare, or Alfonso, knowing that she could never really love him now? Was it the same window? I thought the room we saw Lucrezia spying on Cesare in season 1 was a totally different room, and the window was facing the courtyard where they both laid down together on the grass. But you're right, he wasn't really being that quiet, which is why I'm surprised that no one heard the noise coming from Cesare's room when he and Lucrezia were having sex on her wedding night.

Hi Alex! Hi Arinna, thanks for the gif!

Yes! She watched him having sex & saw him close-up fully naked & aroused. He didn't seem too upset by it, did he? He did everything except actually have sex with her in that scene: enabling her to watch him, throwing her onto the ground, lying on top of her, eye sex, and touching her with all those sex scents on him.

I think he was showing off his manhood & sexual prowess, cause he wanted to inflame her, even if he wasn't consciously fully aware of it. Maybe she was returning the favor of him allowing her to see his **** when she lifted her leg giving him her foot to caress He was caressing something else with his eyes when she did that

Oh, I meant it was the same type of window so that Cesar could've latched it if he'd chosen to, not the exact window from his bedroom.

I feel like Lu was shedding the tear in her desperation to have Ces & feeling like she couldn't. I say this is cause when Alf came into her bedroom without knocking, she looked at the door with anticipation that it was Ces - she'd just been daydreaming about him. When she saw it was Alf, she sighed & had a look of extreme disappointment, then quickly turned away, as if thinking, "oh damn, it's only you..". She took a moment to collect herself before she had a resigned look and pulled down the blanket for him. There are so many scenes where I just want to give her a big hug and this is one of those.

Well, when Ces & Lu had sex, the damned music covered up any sounds they were making, so we don't know if they were noisy . Probably they were quiet, cause she took off her shoes outside his door so no one could hear her enter his room. But in the throes of passion, especially considering how much longing they'd had for each other, they might've lost control and made some noise. When he kissed her in the armoury, there were some men in the room & again when they were all touchy when she told him she didn't feel safe unless he was nearby, the tailor was standing right there, so they weren't always all that careful.

I wonder how long she spent with him that night? All night then sneaking out just before dawn would be my guess. Imagine trying to leave his bed after all those years of yearning? That scene was way too short!

[PhoenixRising]

I love that gif, Arinna!


Hi, Lila!

No, Lucrezia didn't seem to upset watching her brother have sex with another woman. Normally you'd think a girl would be disgusted by that. Oh, and I've told Arinna several times that the scene with Cesare and Lucrezia lying on the grass in the courtyard while gazing into each other's eyes was like the scene between Bella and Edward in Twilight. Uhhh, I didn't think about the sex scents.

You think Cesare knew she was watching him all the time? He seemed to not notice until he heard her outside and began chasing her. OMG, she probably did see him naked through the window, didn't she? So I guess getting naked for him in season 3 was her returning the favor. Oh, and what was Cesare caressing with his eyes?

Oh, okay. So I was right that it wasn't the same window. Yeah, the window that the assassin crawled through was much higher on the second or third floor. Yeah, that house wasn't exactly well fortified, was it? And I think the tear was Lucrezia realizing that everything she thought she was going to have or want suddenly changed and became so much more complicated and possibly unattainable. The idea that her marriage was once again for political reasons, but just as she loved Paolo and couldn't have him, she was now trapped by being in love with Cesare but unable to have him for herself. Yeah, I think you're right about that scene with Alfonso. She did seem disappointed and wasn't really in the mood to "consummate" their marriage because her heart was now compromised and having sex with Alfonso would've been a lie.

Lemme get back to you on the rest of your post, Lila. I have to go to bed soon because I work tomorrow.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

I know you loved it.