The 100 - Sic Semper Tyrannis [5x09] Episode Discussion Airdate [07-10-18] - Page 16

**Alexa** · 07-11-2018, 10:02 PM

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I agree on that. She's ruined everything.

I just was FURIOUS with her at the end when she was spitting all that crap about Madi abandoning them. Like, SEETHING. i've never been so angry with a character on this show. Not even Pike. Like, its that bad. In fact, I cant remember when I've been so angry with a character on tv period.

Marie is doing an amazing job and I love Marie, but its the way she growls everything out, like she has such distain for everyone. It makes my skin crawl.

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Yeah, I think it's super weird that Clarke doesn't also seem to care about Abby dying in the valley. That's been one of the most important relationships from like the first scene of the show. It's her mother. Think back to all the times Clarke broke down in emotion over Abby. But this season they had like two scenes together in one episode and have apparently never thought of or mentioned each other since. Murphy cares about Clarke's own mother more than Clarke does. What gives?

It really makes no sense and this is what I was talking about with the inconsistency of the characters. Do the different writers just come in not knowing the different dynamics? It really made no sense either that Murphy cared about Abby enough to want to save her. It would have made way more sense for Raven to want too stay behind, regardless of what Abby did to her last episode. I just dont understand.

Like I totally get that Clarke adopted Madi and has been raising her for the last 6 years but we, the audience, have only seen them together for 10 episodes so it just.... IDK, it just feels weird to me that she would pick that relationship over her own mom and the people she spent so much time with on the series from seasons 1-4.

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Wait . . . I’m confused on what you’re saying here. A long time before they had to decide who was in the bunker? What do you mean?

They thought they were going to have to choose 100 people anyways, which is why Clarke made that list, then after the conclave, Octavia told them they had to choose however many people they wanted in the bunker. So they knew they had a choice to make even then, yet they refused to make it. Sky crew should have just come to that decision as a group like everyone else did, instead of clarke and jaha trying to shut the damn door. And by the end of it, thats what ended up happening anyways lol. They used Clarke's list. So it was just silly imo to even see Clarke and Bellamy going back and forth over it. Clarke imo was in the wrong there too to be quite honest.

As for NIylah, even though i think she is on Octavia's side 100% I think she is a smart girl that understands that others wouldnt necessarily follow her til the end. So she was just being honest with Clarke. She helped Clarke because she too didnt want Madi to take over as commander.

April7739 · 07-11-2018, 11:47 PM

Yeah, but Clarke and Jaha seized that bunker before the decision was made to resort back to the list, so . . . I don’t know, I think I lost track of the discussion there.

I feel like the Clarke/Madi relationship is something they’ve done a good job of showing us, though. It feels very authentic and genuine to me. I totally buy into their bond, despite only having witnessed it for 9 episodes.

I agree about Marie. She’s doing a great job. At the end of the day, no one feels indifferent about Octavia this season. She’s generating a lot of polarizing reactions.

Karma Police · 07-12-2018, 01:53 AM

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Even if I accept that (and I still think it's too simplistic for this show,) then the head and heart "reversal" they were talking about last week really made no sense. Clarke wanted to take out Octavia and make a deal with Diyoza because that was the best way to stop the war and save the most people. That is the rational "head" decision. And Bellamy wanted to not take out Octavia and find a different way because she's his sister and he loves her. That is the "heart" decision. So nobody has flipped anything.

The show's main themes have always been the most basic human emotions and interactions, like loyalty and betrayal, how grief can send you on a self-destructive path, who we are vs. what we do to survive. The head and the heart concept fits right in with that. I also don’t think the show meant that Bellamy is literally never going to make an emotionally driven decision anymore, just that he changed and that he’s not as impulsive, thinks before he acts and tries to be as rational as possible.

Also, me saying it’s obvious means it’s obvious to me, if you read this as me implying you’re not intelligent, that’s on you not me.

**Alexa** · 07-12-2018, 01:56 AM

the whole bunker debate was useless regardless because they ended up using the list anyways.

and I'm just saying that clarke made that decision selfishly as well, with Jaha. everyone else on the earth agreed to share the bunker. as much as I like the sky crew, it was super shady and selfish. I was kinda surprised Clarke even agreed to it tbh.

Im not sure I buy into the bond that much? IDK. Clarke doesnt come off very warm to me, but maybe thats JMO.

You love that word polarizing dont you April lol.

April7739 · 07-12-2018, 02:01 AM

I do love that word polarizing, ever since Bob used it in one of my favorite tweets of his.

**Alexa** · 07-12-2018, 02:02 AM

its too kind of a word for Octavia imo.

I also dont understand all the praise for Indra and critique for Bellay when they literally were doing the same thing and working towards the same goal.

April7739 · 07-12-2018, 02:11 AM

I think that’s a good point. I mean . . . I don’t know, I can’t speak on it since I’ve been praising both of them a lot this season.

**Alexa** · 07-12-2018, 02:29 AM

It's just some bellarke fans are pissed at bellamy now because they think hes changed since hes dating echo. I agree in some ways, but also disagree.

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Just literally last episode, Clarke wanted to kill his sister and was willing to put her family (Madi) above his own (Octavia). And that wasn't even the first time she has done it. She let a bomb drop on Octavia in S2, she locked Octavia out of the bunker to die in S4, and in S4 left him chained as he screamed for her to see reason as well, just like in this episode. The Idea of putting the flame inside Madi's head would have worked, as evidenced by that guard who was under orders from Octavia to kill them bowing down to Madi as soon as he realized that she had the wisdom of the Commanders in her. Majority of the people in that bunker are grounders and still think like grounders, as evidenced by that one chick shutting Miller down and claiming that he was a "sky person" and saying they needed to gather the grounder delegates. Also when the Ascension was happening, did we not see majority of the people outside the room waiting for Madi to be announced as commander. All the grounders would have followed Madi and with having no one but just the "sky people" in her corner, Octavia would have been forced to surrender her title as leader of Wonkru, Octavia knows this, that's why she convinced Clarke to help her stop the Ascension, that's why she ordered that guy to kill them once they got to the rover, and that's why she had to basically trash Madi's name in front of Wonkru to convince them to follow her again.
Also people are taking that "are my family" line wayyyyyy out of context, in that line, Bellamy didn't mention Monty or Harper either did he? Even though we know he thinks of them as family as well right, that's because he was only referencing the people that were in Eden at the moment. Also just because he said it doesn't mean he doesn't think Clarke is his family as well, They were literally talking about Madi, and how she was Clarke's family, and he was just stating that they were his family. It wasn't to exclude her, but to inform her. The man poisoned his own sister to save Clarke's life and you really think he doesn't think of her as family? Also both Clarke and Bellamy were both right and wrong in this episode, but where Clarke lost me is that she didn't even try to understand where Bellamy was coming from. She just immediately wrote him off, last episode she wanted to kill his sister and not only did he understand her, he even forgave her, and then poisoned his own sister to save her. But she can't understand where he was coming from? She can't afford him the same courtesy? How many times has Clarke put his sister's life on the line and even though he was mad at her for it, he still always ALWAYS protected her, but she leaves him to die? Clarke is the one being irrational and selfish here. Also putting the flame in Madi's head is totally a Clarke S1-4 move, and to say she wouldn't have done it, you would be lying to yourselves. In fact she probably STILL would have done it now, if it was just a random child, but because it's Madi, it's a no? So the only one that has to sacrifice their family for the greater good is Bellamy? That's ****ed up. Sorry this comment is so long but I just had to get it out. Because right now Clarke is the one being selfish, NOT BELLAMY and I'm pissed off that people are hating him for literally doing everything he can to save everyone.

I also had to leave this here. Someone said this on youtube and its exactly what my thoughts are/were, which is why I am shocked to see so many people hating on Bellamy right now. He deserved hate in season 3 100%. He deserved hate in season 1. But this? No. Sorry. dont agree.

Karma Police · 07-12-2018, 02:41 AM

You don't have to agree but fans have a right to be angry with Bellamy if they want to.

**jediwands** · 07-12-2018, 02:41 AM

^ Nice post, Alexa. That poster makes some great points even if I still overall understand the motives of both Bellamy and Clarke.

I hope the last four episodes erase some of the puzzling, shocking, annoying stuff that went on in this last episode. I might be naive but I still have faith.

April7739 · 07-12-2018, 02:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Karma Police (View Post)

You don't have to agree but fans have a right to be angry with Bellamy if they want to.

And this is different than it was earlier in the season, when a lot of the anger was just openly ship related. This is, I feel, the first truly questionable decision he’s made all season, excluding Cooper, and that was a decision he made with Clarke. But hey, he got to 5x09 making some pretty okay judgment calls. Good job, Bellamy.

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Originally Posted by Wilpen (View Post)

That poster makes some great points even if I still overall understand the motives of both Bellamy and Clarke.

I skimmed it, because . . . paragraphs are needed.

I think there are some good points made there, but I don’t agree with the wording. Such as selfish. I just don’t see that as a word to apply to Clarke or Bellamy right now, since neither one of them is even resorting to these extremes to look out for themselves. They’re both looking out for other people. Clarke was arrested for Cooper’s murder, which she ultimately committed to look out for Madi. Bellamy’s in the pit now. Like, they’re both willing to sacrifice their lives to protect other people. I’d say that’s pretty selfless. Not that they’re saints or anything, because lord knows they’re not.

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I hope the last four episodes erase some of the puzzling, shocking, annoying stuff that went on in this last episode. I might be naive but I still have faith.

You’re not naive! The last episodes are usually always pretty strong!

Fuzzy Dunlop · 07-12-2018, 05:36 AM

I think Bellamy's actions in this episode were a little problematic because you can argue that Madi is just too young to make this choice for herself, but on the other hand I think he did make an effort to clearly explain to her what the stakes are. Like I was feeling pretty squicky about it until Bellamy told her upfront that Clarke disapproved. That's about as reasonable as I think he could be in this situation. He's trying to save hundreds of lives here, so I'm not gonna be furious about it.

(But I gotta say that it bugs me to read that one super long thing Alexa quoted and see this repeated claim that Bellamy poisoned Octavia to save Clarke. I've seen that idea a lot in the last few weeks and I think it's off. Yes, saving Clarke was certainly part of why he did it, but he's still primarily doing it all to stop the whole war. Their plan to murder Kara didn't work and Octavia was still about to release the worms on the valley, so he took the next most desperate measure he could short of killing Octavia. It's not all about Clarke.)

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Originally Posted by Alexa (View Post)

]It really makes no sense and this is what I was talking about with the inconsistency of the characters. Do the different writers just come in not knowing the different dynamics? It really made no sense either that Murphy cared about Abby enough to want to save her. It would have made way more sense for Raven to want too stay behind, regardless of what Abby did to her last episode. I just dont understand.

I feel like there must have been an episode or something where Murphy bonded with Abby, but I can't remember what it was. Which says something, I think. Like it obviously doesn't take any effort to remember why Clarke and Abby are important to each other, but what happened with Murphy and Abby?

The writers have pulled some pretty obscure threads back into play this season. Like I had completely forgotten about Raven's mom being an alcoholic because as far as I can remember it was only talked about once in like S2. I feel like maybe they need for it to be more of an ongoing part of Raven's story if they want it to really land emotionally when she sees Abby is an addict. As it was, I was more surprised like "Oh dang, I completely forgot about that" than emotionally invested.

But yeah, the Clarke/Abby blackhole has bothered me multiple times this season. They haven't mentioned each other at all since their reunion in the bunker. I don't think it would have been that hard to integrate into the dialogue. Like when Clarke and Bellamy were confronting Octavia over the worm plot, Clarke could have easily mentioned that her mother would be killed. Instead all we got was that blanket "people we love" line from Bellamy.

I'm hoping that since Clarke is apparently going back to Shallow Valley next episode that they finally will remember about this relationship. Like surely there's no way that Clarke shows up in the valley, finds out her mother is addicted to painkillers and is being held hostage by a group of convicts, and doesn't start to care about that. Right???

Karma Police · 07-12-2018, 06:09 AM

They implied it in season 1 when Nygel said her mom would take a deal in exhcange for sex, I always assumed she meant she took those deals in exhcange for moonshine. I think she also mentioned it when she explained how her mom never cared for her, that the bottle was more important and that's why the family next door took care of her. Might have also mentioned it to Murphy in season 2 when Murphy told her how his parents died but I'm not sure. But yeah after season 2, they didn't mention it again, at least I don't remember anything. But it makes sense that seeing Abby would be triggering to her. Besides this there was only one other addiciton sotry line with Lincoln and Raen wasn't really part of that arc.

**BlueDog9** · 07-12-2018, 06:19 AM

Raven didn't say anything about her Mom in that S2 scene to Murphy.

The lack of Clarke/Abby is really bothersome. (Where's Clarke depending on Abby this season like you said Eliza?)

Fuzzy Dunlop · 07-12-2018, 07:30 AM

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Originally Posted by BlueDog9 (View Post)

Raven didn't say anything about her Mom in that S2 scene to Murphy.

The lack of Clarke/Abby is really bothersome. (Where's Clarke depending on Abby this season like you said Eliza?)

Wow, did Eliza really say that Clarke would depend on Abby?


Fan Forum > Archived Television Shows > The 100 > Sic Semper Tyrannis [5x09] Episode Discussion Airdate [07-10-18]