Fuzzy Dunlop

Seriously, that test tube baby looked DEAD

You know... the more it gets brought up on the show (and in the fandom) that Echo needs someone to give her orders, the more I start to think that it's not true. I don't really think that's the way they presented her throughout the show. She was always arguing with Roan and trying to convince him to do things her way, like when she took it upon herself to cheat in the conclave and got herself banished. She functioned just fine using her own judgment while she was on her spy mission in S5 (remember her arguing with Raven about what to do?) and while Bellamy was gone for a huge chunk of S6. And who has she been taking orders from for the last 5 years? She was definitely the most proactive of the 4 women on Bardo and took the lead making a deal with Anders, which means Diyoza and Octavia (two of the strongest leaders in the series) were following Echo there. Plus if it turns out that she's playing them all and has some master plan, that will be even more evidence. She's not blindly taking anyone's orders. But, yeah, she is loyal and she prioritizes the group over herself. She picks a team and sticks to them without seeking out power for herself. I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it's something that she's insecure about on a personal level, but whatever. She's a badass and she's smart. Hope basically has no business being such a dick to her.

Butterfly catcher

Absolutely. She’s loyal because she was conditioned to, but she doesn’t obey blindly. She is able to lead in the absence of the leader as proved at the beginning of season 4 and in subsequent seasons.
If it was difficult for her to create links from her past history, she has made a lot of progress on this plan since the time spent on the Ark and no doubt she also created bonds with Hope and Dyoza on Skyring. She plays on Bardo and she plays well, they will find Hope with Octavia’s tattoo.
I don’t really like her character because she is so cold, it’s difficult to read into her and I like when emotions are perceptible. I don’t know if it comes from the actress’playing or simply from her storyline. But clearly, her character is in my opinion the most intriguing and interesting at this stage of the season. ( I never thought I would say this one day LOL)

Damocles

Yeah there seems to be a narrative that she follows orders and that's it (the show even keeps saying this) but her "thing" was also her loyalty. So I do wonder if she's playing a long con (and if the others, minus Hope, are involved).

Never thought about Octavia potentially conning Levitt a bit, too

tbh at this point I hope they're all conning, it would be interesting for sure.

As for Sanctum, I'm gonna need more people to die (like, all the prisoners) so they can integrate into the Bardo-People storyline somehow.

Fuzzy Dunlop

Or like... we're gonna find out that Hope has been acting this whole time and her failing and being sent to Skyring is part of their plan

Kallor8

Yeah, this. My money's on Octavia playing the memory viewer guy, too.

Taryn74

I agree. Echo is loyal to a fault, but her actions are always her own. She just does whatever she believes - as a whole - is going to best serve the one she's loyal to.

Kind of like when Jaha told Octavia that the reason he floated her mother was not because her mother was an enemy, but because the enemy was death itself - specifically, death of the people on the Ark - and her mother's actions further served death so that's what he was punishing.

sonny1

Look at Indra here: ... Can't wait for the Sheidheda vs. Indra fight in episode 10. I hope only Sangedakru will follow Sheidheda and the rest of Wonkru will follow Indra.

destroyer of worlds

I hope that Echo is playing the long con because I worry about the consequences on Diyoza/Hope/Octavia if she isn’t. I definitely think that Levitt will end up double crossing them or dying, there’s no in between for me and that sucks because I do like him and him/Octavia together.

Fuzzy Dunlop

Levitt's just too good to be true

Kallor8

Yes, it's unfortunate about Levitt because I find the idea fairly romantic. A person essentially lives the life of their enemy, and in so doing can't help but love them. I think one of the biggest things human beings want in life and love is to feel understood, and this kind of thing with Levitt touches on that.

destroyer of worlds

Agreed, and he’s never known any other life but then Octavia comes into the picture and gives him a different perspective and he’s intrigued and wants to know more about her/that life. But unfortunately, I don’t see this ending well. I’ll be gladly proven wrong though.

Damocles

I mean, why wouldn't Hope and co want to go back to Penance. They seemed to love it there in the end?? Oh gosh what if that is their plan lol.

whatisthetruth.gif

re: Levitt ... how nice would it be if he was just a nice test tube baby dude and him and Octavia wound up together and alive? Sigh. We simply can't expect such things on this show, can we. I really hope he's not evil in some way because then that would be...icky all around.

destroyer of worlds

Yeah, actually Penance doesn’t seem that bad if you’re not alone. It’s a nice, little quiet spot to ride out your punishment. If you’re alone though, I can see how it’ll feel like torture and entirely isolating.

kenni727

So I put off watching the episode cause I'm really not interested in Sanctum. But, of course, that now means there's a lot of discussion I missed.

As much as I like JR Bourne and think he's doing a fantastic job as Sheidheda and as much as I love Indra being in charge, this storyline bores me. I'm hoping it will get more interesting now that the believers are dead and it's out in the open who Sheidheda is. No more Nikki and Nelson. They were just plain stupid.

Honestly, I like Fuzzy's idea of Sheidheda knowing something of Cadogan because of the Flame and the Grounders fighting the Bardoans. That's now the only acceptable outcome to me for having Sheidheda around this much.

I tend to think Echo is running a long con. I've never seen her as someone who blindly follows orders. She knows when to follow and when to lead. She's loyal. These are qualities that make an excellent soldier. Which is what she was raised to be. She also knows how to survive. I don't think she gives a rat's ass about the cause. She just knows that, revenge or not, she's not living her life in a cell on Bardo. So either she's playing them to enact revenge. Or to eventually get herself the hell off that planet. Probably both.

I like the idea that Hope is in on all of this too, and it's planned to send her to Penance then bring her back. Actually is what makes the most sense at this point. Cause Hope's obstinance really doesn't make sense. She's trained with Bardoans most of her life. She knows what their capable of. I would think she knows the best way to fight them is actually to outsmart them. Like what Echo seems to be doing.

Fuzzy Dunlop

This is a really good point, actually. I wasn't even thinking about it, but yeah. She called Dev her father, even. I guess the explanation is that she's so upset that they stole her family from her when she was a kid that she still can only think of revenge even though she's been reunited with her family.