Andalusia

Very good point, there. Everything forbidden is always attracting curiosity. We know it's bad and forbidden and we'll never do such a thing. But, because it's bad and forbidden, we give a look in fiction: cause it's not for real. Exactly like murder's stories.

*Arista*

Andalusia, this is OT, but...I love your avatar!

Just have to give another update on my soap couple, because they had a HUGE week! I mean, un-freakin-believable.

Tuesday, Jonathan and Tammy kissed. Not just any kiss, this was the most passionate, desperate kiss I have ever seen on television. It happened at a moment when they were both emotionally naked, and they just attacked each other. When I read early reports that this was unlike anything ever seen on soaps, I rolled my eyes at the hyperbole. But I was the one proven wrong in the end. Truly, this is groundbreaking stuff.

If you're curious, you can see the scenes from Tuesday's show here:

Guiding Light 7/26/05, Jon & Tammy

Wednesday and Thursday blew my mind as well. After they kissed (which was more like a prelude to sex), Tammy pulled away and was horrified by what she'd done. Jon said he wouldn't have let things go further (yeah, right!) and that he would never hurt her. Determined to deny her feelings for Jon, Tammy ran off and had sex with her boyfriend (which was their first time together, because up until that point she kept pulling away because of her feelings for Jonathan). Jon showed up at her place and witnessed her with her boyfriend. After her boyfriend was called away, Jon went inside to tell her that she had been a positive influence on him and he was going to give back money that he'd stolen. When she tried to deny her feelings, he insisted to her that their kiss was real, trying desperately to convince them both. Then he pulled back, realizing that it had been wrong for her and that she was better off with her boyfriend. When he tried to leave, she grabbed his hand to stop him. *sigh* Her boyfriend showed up and wanted to fight with Jon, but Jon didn't bite. He took off. Jon and Tammy ran into each other once again later. Jon wanted to know why she keeps playing with his head.

Phew! That's pretty much the week in a nutshell! Jon was abused by his adoptive father as a child, and now that man is in town and trying to find a way to get to Jon. Looks from Friday's show like he now knows Tammy is the one to hurt to devastate Jon the most! This is classic soap. I'm in heaven.

Also thought I'd say that there has been a HUGE response to them, at least in terms of online viewers. My board for them gained 100 new members in, like, two days. Some people feel dirty for loving them, some people are fine with the cousin thing. NO ONE denies they have scorching chemistry.

Just thought I'd keep y'all updated since this is semi-incestuous and that's not done in the mainstream media very often...At least not where it's obvious that this is the root-for couple. I'm in complete awe of the writing right now.

Miranda

Andalusia

Thank you

Night Nymph

*Arista* - not to be outdone I guess, because this couldn't just be coincidence, right?... I turned on the last few moments of Passions today to see who was surviving the tidal wave and was surprised and slightly horrified? dumbfounded? intrigued in that train wreck sort of way? - take your pick - to see Whitney and Chad (the half brother and sister) kissing (as in heavy making out) in the face of the disaster. Now I missed what lead up to this, but still... Now as to fan reaction, I don't know yet as I only visit the "Passions" spoiler thread on this board, so I don't know of any other reaction, but we'll see if I get any response to my post today. Of course there is so much other reprehensible behavior on this soap, Whitney and Chad might seem relatively innocent by comparison.

I really, really miss Timmy. Once he was gone, any shot at this show having a heart went right out the window. Now it's more like a train wreck - you can't tear your eyes away, thinking that soon it'll have to be over, but instead it only seems to get worse - is that another train coming around the corner? I bet you it is.

Hee that's reminiscent of our thread title over there: "Passions disaster on Tuesday? Isn't it a disaster every day?" (Title by Candygirl.)

*Arista*

LOL Night Nymph. I have a friend who watches "Passions". I asked her about Whitney/Chad and she was not terribly enthusiastic.

Mind you, this is a friend that I had a Jon/Tammy marathon party with last week, and said she enjoyed them. So I wonder if it's a matter of how close the relationship between the characters is, or how they are written and portrayed, as to how people react to them. Jon and Tammy often interact like most exes would, and you wouldn't even guess they are cousins. I love this, because it is not the show trying to ignore their cousin issue so much as demonstrate that they have a complex array of emotions where the other is concerned, and the cousin relationship is only a fraction of who they are to one another.

That said, it is looking more and more to me like the show will end up re-writing history to de-cousin them. At first I was really upset by this, but I'm getting used to the idea. Yes, it would eliminate some of their current sources of angst, but I think they can still be compelling without that obstacle. One thing I am really curious about is how the fanfic will change as a result of such a development. I'm expecting some to go ahead and write stories that include the change in their relationship, and others to continue writing them as cousins. It will be fascinating to see how the fanbase responds to this if it does happen.

~*Nikki*~

This is such an interesting thread.

Well I myself would never ever consider incest right in the real world, I do read and ship characters on television shows that are related, granted most of those are on Soaps.

I just feel like it depends on the actors chemistry with one another. I think Kendall and Bianca off All My Children have very romantic chemistry but on the show they are half siblings.

I've seen a ton of chemistry between JR and Di and she's supposed to be his mother but again it all boils down to the chemistry between the actors.

pacifierrocks

I've never really shipped a couple if they were blood related, knowingly of course. I'm a major Boone/Shannon shipper from Lost but i don't think that really counts since they're only related by marriage. I kinda look at family pairings as a car crash on the side of the road or something. You don't want to look, but you just can't help it anyways.

I agree that chemistry has a lot to do with it. The actors aren't related in real life so they could have this kind of "forbidden" chemistry between them as characters. I can't really look if i see two characters that are supposed to be related, 'together' cuz its a bit disturbing for me. But that doesn't mean i won't keep track of the storyline.

*Arista*

Interesting comments, Nikki. I often wonder if I would've seen the chem between my couple if the show had not thrown them together like they did. I am guessing that with many incest fanbases, the chem is found in the subtext and is open for interpretation, etc. (Is that the case with JR and Di? I have heard others mention them before, but I'm not clear whether the show actually teased the romance angle or an Oedipal vibe, or if fans just noticed the chem.) With my couple, the show actually put them together from nearly the start of Jonathan's run on the show. I often wonder if I would've noticed the chem between them if they hadn't been thrown together as they were.

Huh. See, I think one reason why I am so accepting of my soap couple is because they did not grow up together. They met when they were adults (around 18 or a little older) and they instantly showed a romantic spark. There were never any feelings of kinship between them before they fell for one another. Although he did know at the time he was seducing her that she was his cousin, he was raised in a society where cousin relationships are probably more acceptable. By the time his identity was revealed, he had developed real feelings for her (although he tried to suppress them). She was disgusted by the truth, but was also still attracted to him and interacted with him as an ex-lover rather than as a cousin.

How old were Boone and Shannon when their parents married? I remember finding them interesting, but being a bit let down by the episode where their relationship was revealed, because the show seems to play up "twists" and that was a rather obvious one. Anyway, if they were past puberty when they first met, I don't think I'd find it as awkward. It's when characters grew up as children and were thinking of one another as family that it gets a little iffy...But after falling for Jammy, I'm trying to keep an open mind about pretty much anything these days.

Okay, now onto an update on my couple...OMG, the show is actually going through with these two!!!

Last week, they again shared a passionate kiss. Like, the third in the past month or so. Jonathan finally broke down and declared his feelings, telling her he had only been with a past girlfriend (whom Tammy had grown jealous of) because he couldn't have Tammy. He was crying, and you can see the tear streaking down his cheek as they both surrendered in a kiss.



The kiss looks pretty tame here, but it got wild as it wore on. Wide open mouths. I thought their jaws were going to unhinge.

Jonathan: Look, Tammy, whatever the hell this is between us, I don't care what anybody else thinks. I am sick of fighting it.

Tammy agreed with him momentarily, but then her boyfriend showed up and they had to cut the liplock short (or who knows where it might've led ).

She then found out her boyfriend was planning to propose to her, and kind of freaked out. Jonathan decided to make one last ditch attempt to convince her that what they're feeling is real. He found her at her family's barn, where they had some insanely intense scenes last June that I believe I mentioned further up in the thread. Anyway, Tammy told him she was going to say "yes" to her boyfriend when he proposed, but when Jonathan asked her whether she could spend the rest of her life without ever feeling the way they make each other feel, she kissed him. What ensued on the next day's show stunned me...









HOLY HOTNESS, BATMAN!

In classic soap fashion, her almost-fiancee showed up and spied them in this compromising position, then ran off and got electrocuted. So (blasted coitus interruptus!) she got a cell phone call to rush to the hospital before they had sex. But I'm still shocked that they got so very close.

I truly never thought I'd see this stuff on my screen. EVER. I'm thrilled beyond belief, but stunned and baffled as well. I have no clue how this made it past the network censors. I mean, they are still cousins...Don't get me wrong. It's awesome, but just...Wow LOL.

Besides the extraordinary hotness on display, they also got some gloriously romantic and beautiful dialogue. Here are a few snippets:

Jonathan: For the longest time I wanted to be with you like this, but I just wouldn't let myself hope that...
Tammy: Ssh. Just kiss me. I want to be yours.

Jonathan: Look, what just happened in here, what happened between us, we crossed a line. We can't go back now.
Tammy: Sandy needs me.
Jonathan: And what do you need?
Tammy: I need him, too.
Jonathan: No! That's your guilt talking. Stop lying to yourself. What you need is me. What you need is here. Now. What's going on between us. Please.

This is about so much more than just lust. Neither one wants to acknowledge it yet, but they're both deeply in love.

The scenes were so beautifully written, acted, and directed. There's no doubt that these two are the ones the audience is supposed to be rooting for. They're a supercouple in the making. I just have no clue where the show is going and whether they'll remain cousins for the long haul. It looks like their family might start to find out about this just as she is planning to marry her lame boyfriend. So that should be good. I'll keep ya posted.

ROCKSTAR

I don't know exactly when the "incest" popularity started, but before I watched Supernatural all I heard was about "Wincest" and I almost didn't watch the show thinking that it hinted at some incest. Thankfully, I quickly learned that Wincest was a part of the new trend and I watched the show and it was awesome.

I'm not a Wincest fan but I'm a fan of the chemistry the actors share, which led to Wincest in the first place.

follow the sun

When I saw this title, I had to lol

I've never read an incest fic, I didn't know that this was a trend

otherwise

I can't believe this was a discussion thread.

Slash I can handle, incest... Um, no.

xsweetnightmarex

I'm a major Supernatural fan, but I stay away from Wincest. It's just...not my thing, lol.

ROCKSTAR

I'm not even a Slash fan.

And this thread was started before Heroes and the whole Peter/Claire thing. lol

venusinfurs

Oh Peter and Claire. Talk about the weirdest ship out there. It still baffles me that it exist.

And this might win for weirdest topic evah. I've read books with incest, but it doesn't fail to creep me out, even when it's well written.

My favorite (notice the sarcasm there) is when a writer creates incest for the heck of it. Totally makes my head spin around like a cartoon character.

If incest is popular, it's still a gated community in the Heroes fandom that the rest of us (and Heroes fans who don't care) run from.

Elenwyn

Well, I'm not gonna say much, being a Paire fan But I don't like incest ships in general. Peter/Claire is pretty much the only one. There's just something about them