[Mei Zhuo]

Originally Posted by Anla (View Post) I can see the possibility of her allegiance being with Sam, and yet still don't think that she's particularly trustworthy. She's a demon - what she thinks is best for Sam might not be what's really best for him. Her perspective isn't quite the same as the boys'.

true, and that she's willing to sacrifice people as a means to get to the end might not sit well with the boys, like in Jus In Bello

[Anla]

Exactly. Ruby doesn't see things the same way that the boys do. Her attitude is, in many ways, the opposite of what they believe in. Even if she is loyal to Sam in her own way, there can very well be problems with her acting in ways that go against everything the boys stand for, even if she intends it to help them.

And what she wants, what she considers to be a good end result, might be very different from what Sam or Dean do.

Originally Posted by winchesterboyz (View Post) ^^i agree.. to some degree. remember that she said she remembers being human and not all of us mortals are untrustworthy just saying...

She says she remembers being human. Not like there's any history of demons lying or anything............

And even if she does remember, so? That doesn't mean she was necessarily a great person when she was human. (In fact, considering what little we do know of her history, I'm inclined to lean towards thinking the other way.)

[Mei Zhuo]

She says she remembers being human. Not like there's any history of demons lying or anything............ And even if she does remember, so? That doesn't mean she was necessarily a great person when she was human. (In fact, considering what little we do know of her history, I'm inclined to lean towards thinking the other way.)

that's totally plausible, who said she was actually a good person when she was human? She just mentioned that she remembered and the show didn't give us any other indications

[wicked games]

I might be the only one, but i would love to see or hear more of Ruby's past.. we know she was a witch and that is why she is now a demon, but I don't think we really know the entire story.

[Mei Zhuo]

true, I think in terms of Ruby backstory, we could learn a little more about her.

[hiddleskittlesღ]

Originally Posted by OTH_Leyton_4eva (View Post) I might be the only one, but i would love to see or hear more of Ruby's past.. we know she was a witch and that is why she is now a demon, but I don't think we really know the entire story.

i agree.. i would love a backstory ep... i was thinking of one actually. maybe the reason why she's trying to "redeem" herself by helping the boys is bec she did something so evil, so nasty that she had to become a demon, or something like that. for some reason, i always gravitate to tortured characters

[Folie]

I wouldn't be oposed to a Ruby backstory ep....

I'm curious and interested enough about the character to find out a little more about her.

Originally Posted by winchesterboyz (View Post) maybe the reason why she's trying to "redeem" herself by helping the boys is bec she did something so evil, so nasty that she had to become a demon, or something like that.

Well the "why" she's a demon was pretty much answered.
She was a witch and sold her soul to a demon. I am assuming that alone would have made her do quite a few "evil" things generally and I don't think it was one specific thing that she might feel sorry about or that tunred her into what she is.

[hiddleskittlesღ]

besides being a witch, i meant... maybe the demon had other reasons? i'm stretching, i know i just want more ruby! she reminds me so much of angel (btvs)

[Mei Zhuo]

Me too, the backstory will always be great, it'd give us audiences an insight and also, just how really involved is Ruby

[Anla]

Oh, there's clearly more about Ruby that we don't know. She's been around for centuries, after all.

See, I'm completely okay with her being a demon, and that even if she's loyal to Sam, she's still basically evil and that colors her view of the world. While I loved the Buffy/Angel-verse, I'm not sure I want "good" demons popping up on this show. It's a different set-up. I like the idea that Ruby has her own reasons for things, her own agenda. Doesn't mean she doesn't honestly want to help Sam in her own way.

[Mei Zhuo]

you have a point Anla But I'm just really curious to see how it will pan out, how Ruby would really side in the end

[hiddleskittlesღ]

Originally Posted by Anla (View Post) Oh, there's clearly more about Ruby that we don't know. She's been around for centuries, after all. See, I'm completely okay with her being a demon, and that even if she's loyal to Sam, she's still basically evil and that colors her view of the world. While I loved the Buffy/Angel-verse, I'm not sure I want "good" demons popping up on this show. It's a different set-up. I like the idea that Ruby has her own reasons for things, her own agenda. Doesn't mean she doesn't honestly want to help Sam in her own way.

i love that Ruby's a demon too... i'm just saying that the Buffy/Angel thing was great bec they were the ultimate Romeo and Juliet in the supernatural world. Dean and Ruby (or Sam and Ruby for that matter) will never happen, but their chemistry is kinda like the B/A thing... they can't be together so they hate each other, but they have that sexual tension going and i love it!

i also love the fact that Ruby's "her own demon". when she told sam that she's never lied to him, i can see she meant it (or she's a really good actress/liar) either way, i'm optimistic she'll side with them; at least that's how i want Kripke to write it

[Mei Zhuo]

Yeah, I was curious when Ruby said she has never lied to Sam, now the question is if it's really true, or she's just a good actress. And I felt that Ruby was actually sincere when he told Dean he was sorry and she wouldn't wish it upon her worst enemy

[Folie]

Originally Posted by Mei Zhuo (View Post) And I felt that Ruby was actually sincere when he told Dean he was sorry and she wouldn't wish it upon her worst enemy

Actually that part, I just can't believe, because I'd bet good money it was Lilith who was in her by then.

Actually I'd bet good money it was Lilith all the time since she appeared to them at the house.
If not then it definitelly happened after she and Sam split up!


Regardless, I think she has been less than honest with both guys on every aspect...
She's untrustworthy, and her constantly demandng them to blindly trust her "just cause" with no reciprocation is too much to ask. Basically she can throw hissy fits and pass around orders all she wants. BUT she hasn't earned what she wants from them and unless she understands that then she will never be able to work with them. And if she wants to, lets face it, she's the one who has to addapt to the boys' style, not the other way around.

[Anla]

I'm gonna hold off on some comments until I get to the finale thread.

Something that caught my attention when rewatching this ep was Sam's response when Dean pointed out he used to always object to killing humans, no matter what they were doing. Sam answers "Where has that gotten me?" That hurts, both because it shows how Sam has had to harden himself emotionally, but also because I've figured that, in the back of his mind, Sam has to keep on thinking that it's his fault Dean's in the situation he is now. If Sam had killed Jake when Jake attacked, rather than choosing to walk away, then Jake couldn't have killed him and opened the Devil's Gate, and Dean wouldn't have made his deal.