barbeegurl00

Gotta say how disappointed I was in the last scene. Of course Haley doesn't want Lucas to marry Lindsey anymore. And I was hoping we'd actually take this somewhere unexpected and let Lucas and Lindsey be. Shame.

same old story

Nathan's line about being honest and that never being enough was so frustrating. You weren't honest about the kiss until Haley had to ask you about it! And you weren't honest about the flirty until Haley caught you doing something worse. Nathan was not honest, please.

Maybe because, like Haley mentioned, it's a little tired. Nathan has made screw up over screw up, and she's forgiven him after little more than just an apology. It'll take a little bit more this time. It's not like it's the first time he's messed up. An apology loses it's power when it's used so many damn times.

maryeemeeh

lindsay is a sweet girl, and it just sucks she's in this situation but i totally agree with this post.

sunchick116

Nathan even said himself-"I screw up a lot". It's like Haley chooses to ignore that fact. Even last year, when the crap with the STD went down, Deb told her to not be too harsh on Nathan, because he didn't have the best examples growing up. Haley totally dismissed that saying it doesn't excuse everything he does. Well, maybe it does. Maybe when all you see are screw-ups, you screw up too.

Anyone see the irony here? Nathan never knew Keith growing, and yet he's turning out to be exactly like him. I think Lucas is a lot like Dan.

SluttyDeb

Nathan's a grown man, excuses for behavior get old. He's his own person now. Haley was right when she said "Aren't you tired of say sorry." How many times has Nathan withheld the truth from Haley for it to not only come back in bite him in the butt, but her as well. Every other time, she forgave him with a few sweet words and a apology, so I definitely wouldn't consider her to be judgemental when it came to Nathan. She's probably just sick of feeling like a fool or afraid the next time it's going to be something she can't forgive that's completely going to break her.

I agree that their issues started during the 4 months before the Nanny arrivedwhen Nathan was injured, drunk, biligerent and basically absent. Then when he is finally on his feet and it looks like they're starting to get everything back place, Bam!... Showergate. But she still gave him a chance to explain and she takes his word for it even warning him to lay it all out when she said they're better not be more. Again, he didn't speak up. When he came back later, she ready to forgive and forget by the hug she gave him. Then she jokes about Carries nerve to say he kissed her and watched swim naked and Bam!.....more lies. She has earned the right to have lost trust in him right now and to be wary of thinking they can be in a marriage anymore because a marriage is nothing without trust.


I don't think Nathan is anything like Keith and very little like Dan......that's a good thing.

Hil/Peyton

OMG. I laughed out loud. She really is sickengly perfect, up to the point you'd really throw up on yourself.

ITA.

same old story

Um, Dan and Deb being screwed up doesn't excuse Nathan's behaviour at all. He can't use that excuse everytime he screws up. It's not a free pass. Most of these kids had crappy parents, they're not all screwing up all the time.

If anything, Nathan should have learned from their mistakes, as well as his.

How is Lucas anything like Dan?

angelxdevil

How is Nathan's behavior unacceptable and awful? The guy always tries his very best to keep his emotional Trunchbull happy. Haley is never pleased with anything she does. Never. Ever. It's always nag, nag, nag...Off course Nathan screws up over and over again! She makes him so nervous the guy has no clue what to do anymore. Tell her? Get yelled at. Not tell her, she finds out and he gets yelled at too. They don't have a normal relationship anymore but a whining mother - messing up schoolboy one. Nathan should get out while he can because in his relationship with Haley, it's clear he feels inferior.

somewhereelse

Remember when he was getting better? Helping out with Quentin? Haley talked with him and told him he has a lot to be proud of and kissed him. But these days how can Haley be pleased when Nathan basically hasn't done a thing? Watching Carrie skinny dip, telling her his wife doesn't need to know things (which is never. ever. true), letting her kiss him, how is any of that trying? He stood idly by, allowing the nanny to make a train wreck out of his family, and then has a way delayed reaction by yelling at his wife who has essentially done nothing but listen to him lie to her and then question him when presented with new information. The only thing Nathan's the best at is saying sorry; guy completely lacks the ability to be proactive.

Haley protected Nathan for four months, telling Jamie that his daddy was 'sad' but he still loved him. But Nathan hasn't given her the same regard, leaving their son open to the influence of a nanny who blatantly engages in inappropriate behavior in front of him. Haley may have hired Carrie but Nathan has just as much right to fire her especially after he got better. He could have gone to Haley and told her "Hey, I'm back on my feet. We don't need a nanny anymore. Let me be the father Jamie thinks I am." That would have been trying. That would have been a laudible effort. But, no, we get a flowery Nathan speech to Luke and no follow up. We get Jamie almost drowning and not even a fence around the pool.

So now Haley's suffering and made out to be the shrew, as uzh.

SluttyDeb

When has Haley been doing all this nagging because the things she have asked of him have certainly been within reason. I remember her telling him after 4 months of being ignored and taken advantage of by him while he treated her like crap, to stop drowning in his own pity, stop drinking so much, let his son know he still had a father. Hmmmm... that should be justifiable by anyone's standards.

She hasn't had another complaint until he was caught in the shower with the Nanny and couldn't string a sentence together to explain himself. Yet, she still gave him a chance the next day. What does he do? Lie, withhold the truth or whatever you want to call it, then he tries to throw his actions back at her instead of owning up to him. We may have seen what really went on with Nathan and the nanny, but she didn't. But I guess Nathan gets a pass because he looks really hot when he's playing dumb.

Anastasia_Beaverhausen

As much as I love Nathan, it seems Nathan is still very immature and not fully capable of being in a mature, adult relationship. He doesn’t communicate with Haley - he keeps things to himself, never lets her in until she begs him to or until it’s too late and someone else tells her what’s going on. It’s frustrating to watch (on a fictional TV show!) let alone to actually be in, and I think it must be really hard for Haley. No doubt, Nathan loves her, but if he doesn’t communicate about important things – e.g. thinking he saw Keith in the water, getting money from a loan shark, shaving points, being physically threatened by said loan shark, being seduced by their live-in nanny etc etc – then what kind of relationship is that? IMO it’s a hard relationship and it’s a sad relationship. It’s one that is in need of rescuing or else it will fall apart.

IMO, as much as I do love NH, in the back of my mind has always been the thought that Haley deserves more. I really do think that Haley is too good for Nathan and always has been. I don’t say this to diss Nathan because I do love Nathan and I do love NH. But I just think that Haley’s life became unnecessarily complicated when she hooked up with Nathan. IMO she could have done so much and achieved so much and would probably be living a comfortable life with someone who shares his life completely with her, someone who isn’t emotionally unavailable. But who’s to really know, right? But something tells me her life wouldn’t be so depressing like it is right now. Again, just my opinion, I don’t want to upset anyone. Anyhow, it’s too late for what ifs, but from the sound of things, Haley’s realising that NH have bigger problems that have been building for a long time and the b.s Nanny fiasco finally brought things out into the open for them to deal with. Yes, Nathan and Haley love each other but love really isn’t enough to maintain a relationship – there needs to be communication, commitment, trust, honesty etc etc.

I know Nathan’s heart is in the right place most times but unfortunately he has been written like he’s some sort of dim-wit who can’t foresee the consequences of his actions. It really shouldn’t be hard to foresee that if you don’t tell your wife that the live-in nanny is trying to seduce you and has even kissed you – your wife might not like that. So I absolutely think Nathan’s behaviour was unacceptable. He should have told Haley what was happening as soon as it became apparent to him. The fact that he didn’t is unacceptable because it put his marriage and his family at risk. Can you imagine if a male-nanny lived with NHJ in their house and he continuously flirted with Haley? If he tried to seduce Haley and she said nothing to Nathan about it? Imagine if she kept him around and allowed this hot male nanny to think he had a chance with her?? I’m guessing Nathan wouldn’t like that very much and if he saw Haley and this hot nanny in only towels coming out of the shower, I think Nathan would be up on murder charges. Just my opinion.

I also want to address the idea that Haley is a nag and Nathan is never able to please Haley – I understand where that opinion comes from because sadly we’ve seen Haley have to deal with a load of crap from Nathan. But I think that any dissatisfaction Haley has is warranted. From what we’ve seen this season, there hasn’t really been much for Haley to be happy about. Characters have said it and I think Joy even mentioned it in an interview, about the “pressure” Haley puts on Nathan. I might just be drawing blanks right now but I totally can’t think of when or where Haley has put undue pressure on Nathan. When she told him to shape up after 4 months of drunken wallowing in self-pity – that was totally justified. Other then that...?? Maybe I’m just forgetting, I’m not sure.

Nathan’s line last episode during the NH argument was laughable: “Haley, you know what? I’m trying really hard to be honest about all this right now but sometimes for you it’s just never enough!” the more I think about it the more I want to laugh...it just sounded absurd to me because being honest about your screw up shouldn’t be enough. Being honest about screwing up does not absolve or pardon you from that screw up.

Also I just want to give my view about Haley’s talk with Nathan - I don’t know exactly what Haley meant in her talk with Nathan, but I interpreted what she said as her finally admitting that she’s tired. Tired of trying to make their relationship work – it must be tiring when you’re the only one making an effort and trying to make their relationship an open and honest one. She’s done trying to change Nathan into being more emotionally available to her. Again I just want to emphasise that obviously Nathan does love Haley, but his lack of communication with his wife, the secrets he doesn’t share with her – his lack of availability will slowly extinguish that love and destroy their marriage. Just my opinon.

barbeegurl00

I agree that Nathan has screwed up. He does this too much. He knew it was wrong and still didn't say anything -- and why? If he wasn't attracted to her at ALL, then why didn't he fire her?

Haley is dealing with more than just this. It is everything. It's him messing up for four months. It's him always doing things and not telling her, etc.

But still... Haley has always been quick to judge and stubborn. She drives me crazy sometimes with her opinionated ways. I think she does not appreciate a lot of the effort Nathan puts into her. I just don't see her putting the same effort into him. Sorry, but it's true.

somewhereelse

Haley's a working mother who also had a side project going (at the approval of her husband) and is now helping to plan a wedding. She gave Nathan a chance to come clean and he didn't take it, making the situation a lot worse than it had to be. She was obviously busy with trying to host a party and keep their house relatively clean. He chose a really bad place (someone else's engagement party in their own house) and time (crowded entry way and kitchen) to get her to hear him out. How much more effort can she put into taking care of a mess Nathan helped make? He's not their four year-old.

Yes, I'm aware marriage is a two-way street and all that jazz but this storyline (and the hunt for Nathan's elusive brain) makes me tired.

barbeegurl00

I completely agree that Haley was not bad tonight. She even offered to talk. It was a horrible place to do it -- at a bachelor/bachelorette party that YOU are throwing, with your son and dozens of guests. Not the best time for an emotional marital conversation.

I just feel that in general Nathan spends way too much time thinking about how Haley feels and she spends too much time freaking out at him for random reasons. The nanny thing... yes, he was just being ridiculous and it is his fault. But in general. It's irritating, and their little fights get old.

My only thing here is that Nathan needs to SPEAK UP. I agree with what someone said earlier on here. Explain yourself! Write her a note, call her, make her listen! He was faithful to her, and the nanny kissed HIM. Explain the situation instead of acting like a wounded puppy!

Tutor_Girl_88

I agree with you ,sunchick116, haley has been told that nathan makes mistake because of his growing up experience which makes a difference... Haley should just stop making him suffer and they should kiss and make up