Belleislove

I saw the screen caps where she was getting up in his face. Their interactions always have the undercurrent of abuse. Unless this is all leading to her death it's not worth it, to me anyway.

I get having a villain you can really hate, but she is one who just disgusts me so much I can't watch.

shade228

Honestly, it might be a good thing - from a character development front - to revisit it now. It's clear that a lot of viewers have forgotten what she put Rumplestiltskin through, though it was VERY obvious in this episode. He might have made a deal with her, but he was terrified of her, and clearly suffering from some major issues where Zelena's past treatment of him is concerned.

I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion, given how Rumplestiltskin fans don't really seem to be welcome to say much these days, but as much as I dislike the fact that Rumplestiltskin is working with his son's killer, he doesn't exactly have much of a choice. He was dying, and the only way he can ever even think of making anything right is by living. He clearly didn't want to make a deal with her, but being Rumplestiltskin, once he makes a deal, he keeps it. He's probably planning on finding a way to double-cross Zelena, since what she said about wanting a happy ending wasn't terribly specific at all, but he really didn't have a choice when he agreed to help her.

And as for what he said to Regina about holding Robin's life in his hands, A) did you see how incredibly uncomfortable he was when he said he'd come to an understanding with Regina? His body language screamed trauma. B) Of course he'll try to tell Regina that he's in a position of power. He's not going to admit to her - or to anyone - that he's helpless and, for all intents and purposes, stuck doing Zelena's bidding once more. Fear of being helpless is one of the bedrock parts of Rumplestiltskin's character, and he's not going to admit that to the heroes who (from his POV) were happy to leave him as a slave in Zelena's cage. Twice.

I'm sorry if I come off as defensive, but the nastiness I've gotten in response to any post that I make trying to point out that Rumplestiltskin isn't entirely-unredeemable-the-worst-character-ever has made me feel very unwelcome here, and I know I'm far from the only Rumple/Rumbeller who feels that way about this board right now.

koodles

Zelena was purposefully bringing up more and more upsetting things despite the fact that Rumple was writhing and the machines were beeping faster and faster. Then when he started flatlining she giggled triumphantly. So yes, I would say she was trying to give him another heart attack and make him even more desperate.

Not trying to justify Rumple working with Zelena because it's really messed up but yeah she definitely backed him into a corner and did what she could to convince him that he needed her potion.

Oh and Belleislove, Zelena's HEA definitely isn't being with Rumple anymore. She made it clear in their conversation that she hates him and wants him dead but she's going to work with him instead because they both want to get to the Author.

shade228

I disagree that Zelena didn't do anything to him. She was leaning on him, touching him when he was trying to pull away, and clearly relishing her power over him, again. If this had been a female character - or probably, any character other than Rumplestiltskin - the fandom would be up in arms about how abusive her behavior is. Remember, this is the woman who had him in a cage for months. She abused him (per the writers) and kept him in worst conditions than I'd keep my pets. She didn't have to physically injure him to do something. Rumplestiltskin's terrified reaction to her, and how desperately he tries to get away from her, should tell you that what she did was huge, irrespective of the fact that his heart problems had nothing to do with her.

scififan2009

I don't care what Rumple went through. The people of Storybrooke did nothing to him. He has no right to go after Emma and try to turn her dark. He's caused her enough pain already.

Belleislove

Yeah. I've said this before. And I don't mean this as a bash on anyone. But if this were a man tormenting a woman this way people would be way more upset.

I rarely have watched a show where I have been so disgusted that I literally can't watch, but her storyline with Rumple has done that. I can't watch her scenes. I just find her vile,

And she really did kill Marian? Is that true?

wild sage growing

Are you that surprised, though? This fandom is mostly gross af. Tons of anti-Rumple's don't even care that Zelena tortured him, and most anti-Regina's don't think Cora ever abused her. People use their hate for either villain to justify incredibly problematic trauma.

Tumblr is full of it.

She did, indeed.

koodles

Oh I agree with you there. Nothing, not past abuse or freeing himself from the dagger or even saving his own life, justifies what Rumple is doing.

I just disagreed with you when you said you didn't think Zelena was trying to cause Rumple pain in the hospital. I think it was clear she was intent on giving him another heart attack. She even pinched his breathing tube for a while.

Yeah it was really sad. It happened after Emma knocked Marian out when she and Hook decided to take her with them back to Storybrooke. She was lying there defenseless and Zelena just poofed her away into nothing, as if she never existed. Then she assumed her identity before Emma and Hook noticed.

Belleislove

I have this picture of the season ending with Rumple with amnesia being held by Zelena somewhere and her pregnant with Robin's child and telling him it's his.

I know a lot of Rumbelle fans are counting on TLK at the end of the season but I don't think it's happening. At this point if wouldn't surprise me if they rewrite it to have Will be her true love.

That's too bad about Marian. People still want her redeemed?

IBelieveInMiracles

I don't know about anyone else but I'm ready for Emma to start trying to forgive her parents. I'm not saying she's not justified in being upset with them, but she's treating them like the are the worst people in the world. She's acting like this one terrible mistake erases the amazing heroes they still are. It's pretty bad what they did, but honestly I don't think in the grand scheme of this show it's qualifies as the worst thing someone has done to someone else. I know being the people she trusts most makes it worse for her, but I just hate seeing her look at them and talk to them with such disgust. They are good people with good hearts. That hasn't changed. And they were manipulated into it to some degree. It doesn't absolve them of their guilt in this, but they didn't exactly get there on their own. And I really believe that they didn't fully understand what they were doing and thought that egg was a dragon or something. They were definitely surprised it was a human baby and they had the intention to bring it back to Mal at least, the sending the baby to the real world and thus depriving Mal of her child was the author's doing through the apprentice. I mean not to down play it, Emma does have a point there, can't deny it was bad, but they also shouldn't let it destroy their relationship and their family. It is something they can get past and I'm just ready for that healing to begin. I guess it's just hard with how we're supposed to forget all the horrifying things Regina did over a long period of time, but Snowing have to be vilified on the show for the one truly terrible thing they did even though they have made every effort to be better people since then. I just don't like seeing Snowing treated like villains. Because they are not. They are human and they made a terrible mistake. Honestly this is the first flashback storyline I feel like doesn't really fit with the story we've been told thus far. But unfortunately we're stuck with it. I'm just ready to see Emma and Snowing get past this. I don't like watching them be at odds like this.


Also random question- are they ever going to turn August back into Pinocchio? He deserves his happy ending and his happy ending was to be that little boy ad grow up with his father. I know it hasn't been that long since they rescued him from Rumple and the QoD and all but I feel like they are already forgetting about him. Did Eoin or the little boy who plays Pinocchio film anything else this season?

shade228

I'm not defending his actions. I agree that he has no right to go after Emma, though I'll argue that he wasn't trying to destroy Storybrooke - he simply wasn't stopping Ingrid, which is far from the same thing. We don't even know if he could have stopped her, though that's an argument for another day.

Is Rumplestiltskin doing bad things this season? Certainly. I never said he wasn't. But that doesn't mean it's right for him to be abused, either. Motivations matter in characters, or the show would be incredibly boring! And I happen to find his story fascinating, because this is a man who has been put through an enormous amount of pain and suffering in the last two seasons. He's responded to it terribly, and has done some terrible things, but that doesn't make what was done to him right, either. And since we still don't know what his ultimate motivation is this season, or what happy endings he's looking for, so I'm going to wait and see before I declare he's the 'most evil person ever.'

Belleislove

Agreed completely. I'm not absolving him of blame. He is wrong. But he has also suffered severe abuse. I just want some payoff in that either he or Regina get to off Zelena for real this time..

scififan2009

It's only been a few hours in the timeline. She'll forgive them. She just needs time.

IBelieveInMiracles

^I think Zelena probably wins most evil, lol, But seriously if he was even a decent person he would maybe choose sacrificing himself over hurting other people or letting Zelena hurt other people. He's still doing a terrible job honoring what Bae did in sacrificing himself to save Rumple. He's choosing saving his own skin over everything. And honestly I don't think he actually feels that bad about what he's doing, he actually seems to enjoy it most of the time. He seems pretty pleased with himself that he gets quite a bit out of this using the Author to get happy endings thing. He's still being totally selfish. What Zelena did to him was not okay, but I certainly don't feel sorry for him. He's given me no reason to feel sorry for him.

IBelieveInMiracles

^ I know, lol, it just feels longer because we have to wait so long for new episodes. And plus like I said I just hate seeing her look at them and talk to them with such disgust and them looking so hurt by her every word. So the sooner they get to forgiveness and healing the better. I'm just impatient really, lol.

Oops sorry for the dp.