PhoenixRising

Yeah, it wasn't nearly as bad as everyone said.

sum1

Yeah.

PhoenixRising

I forgot, were those alien shape-shifters from the comics? They reminded me too much of Skrulls.

sum1

They certainly weren't in the old comics. Maybe in the recent ones.

PhoenixRising

Well, then I obviously wouldn't know them. Aside from Civil War, I really don't like 21st Century Marvel.

sum1

Why the hell did you read something as dumb as Civil War?

PhoenixRising

I know, I know. But I thought it made an interesting post-9/11 allegory, as well as touching on a very interesting topic of civil rights vs. public safety. I mean, X-Men have been doing this for a while with the mutant registration act and the allegory of mutants as oppressed minorities who are hated because they are different. Civil War also touched on the issue of civil rights with the superhuman registration act that was an allegory for the Patriot Act following 9/11, but there was also the issue of public safety and another hot-button topic concerning gun control in the wake of several school shootings, and Civil War began with a school being destroyed during a fight between superhumans. The call for tougher gun laws and gun owners being registered extended into the realm of superhumans, since a superhuman is much more dangerous than an ordinary person with an assault rifle, and superhumans' weapons are contained within their own bodies and they never run out of ammunition. I thought it made for a very interesting conflict of competing social issues.

But I also felt that Civil War touched on something that DC had hinted at back in the 1980s in Watchmen and The Dark Knight Rises. In both stories, superheroes had been outlawed in the future, and heroes like Superman and Dr. Manhattan were made into government agents while the others were forced into retirement. With Watchmen it was never fully explained why that happened, but Superman gave some hint in The Dark Knight Returns when he said, "The rest of us learned to cope. The rest of us recognized the danger, the endless envy of those not blessed. They are small and they are weak. Every year they grow stronger, every year they hate us more. We must not remind them that giants walk the Earth."

Clark seems to imply that something happened that turned public sentiment against superheroes like the Justice League, where they went from heroes who were idolized and praised by the public, to being feared and loathed as a threat to public safety, and perhaps even envied and resented for their status as being above ordinary humans. The circumstances of what happened were never spelled out in detail, only vaguely described by Superman in his monologue(probably an incident involving civilian casualties), which resulted in a Senate hearing where the Justice League were called in to testify, and Batman apparently ruined things by saying, "Of course we're criminals. We've always been criminals. We have to be criminals." That obviously didn't go down well with the folks on Capitol Hill.

Anyway, I think Civil War probably shed some light on how that all might've gone down, which is why I like it. I'd have preferred that had been done in the 1990s with a bit more subtlety and less obvious allegory, but you get what I mean. I get why you don't like it, and I do think that it could've been done better.

sum1

Civil War was a load of bollocks, but Hickman, Duggan and co's present X-Men/Marauders, etc comics are so much worse.

MarvelousToons

First of all thanks @PhoenixRising and @sum for welcoming me! I've been torn between a lot, and the FB groups wouldn't leave me alone LOL

So about MTU in general, its a fan collab Marvel Multiverse, created by fans, FOR fans. To cut to the chase and get to the "prime universe" of ours, the story starts the characters off as kids, in which they do grow up, gradually. Keep in mind, this story is NOT intended for young audiences, good amt of blood violence and suggestive themes in this.

For the X-Men, the ideas I and others proposed (and so far are very welcomed) pertained to changing some details of the characters; for instance, I changed Jean Grey's character to being more purposeful and having more personality. Growing up, she was not my favorite to say the least, as I grew up with X-Men TAS and not the comics. I feel not making her too OP (as in the comics) but still powerful and awesome (better than TAS), and make her someone with internal vices to overcome, would humanize her character, and make her more relatable.

Also we changed her relationship with Cyclops to where, she played the primary role in helping him overcome some MAJOR demons. This causes him to be overly protective and constantly concerning of her, because of what she did for him. That way there's explain for their "JEAN! SCOTT!" back and forth lol

Thunderbird. Random pick as a character for this line up (but he was voted for), but... as I looked him up, everything was wrong with his character, it was all wrong. So... this version of Thunderbird could easily be deemed OC, I don't care, I wanted a more accurate hero representing his name. So... in this story, John Proudstar is a member of the Ojibwa Canadian Indians, instead of Apache. This is because the Apache don't really deal with the Thunderbird in their culture, whereas the Thunderbird is a central motif of the Ojibwa. Also, I changed his powers to being atmokinetic (similar to Storm, but with way less control and far more chaotic and destructive in capacity), as... THAT'S THE ACTUAL POWERS OF A THUNDERBIRD... Storm would become to John in helping him control his power, much like Jean Grey with Cyclops, in overcoming certain demons.

Gambit... oh Gambit... one of my favorite characters, and is always getting the short end of the stick with writers. I, as well as others on the project, hate that his potential is constantly squandered. Not just in his actual mutant abilities, but also as a character in general. I personally have something MASSIVE for his character, that will allow him to finally shine and have a spotlight. Those that know of his new story, are totally in.

Lastly is... THE PHOENIX SAGA... First of all... those were MY ideas the GMikey guy was discussing. He better not have taken credit...

That aside, coming up with a plot was difficult as, there were lots of ideas brought to the table, and lots I discussed with others. What I proposed, and was accepted, was to create a "Phoenix Trilogy" thus include a third act, that would tie in even other heroes, such as the Avengers, Fantastic 4, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Mutant Brotherhood and also Agents of SHIELD.

The "Third Act" would revolve around Jean Grey coming to terms with WHY she now possesses a powerful bond with the Phoenix, why she's so vital as the Phoenix's One True Host, and how that plays in with the central character of the Third Act. The central character is an estranged, "unnatural" cosmic entity, that rises to become the Phoenix's most lethal rival, and a being with the potential to threaten the very fabric of Existence as a whole. It also has a One True Host (one of the other X-Men) and it/he's on this mysterious mission, under the orders of a mysterious, unknown cosmic order.

It becomes a major issue as the Phoenix and the new Cosmic Entity are enemies, while Jean Grey struggles not wanting to harm her fellow former team member, who in turn struggles to not harm her either. To not spoil much at all, the climax winds up being the Cosmic Antihero needing to complete its intertwined destiny with its host, leaving the Phoenix to pick up the pieces and help our heroes repair the damage done by the real villain in this story.

Those are some just to start off, and forgive me for writing a wall of text lol I'm just excited about anyone that potentially would like to join our storyline for our animated series

PhoenixRising

You're welcome! And no, GMikey told us about you and didn't take any credit.

Can I just say that I like what you're doing with Scott and Jean? So few people outside of the comics give their relationship any depth.

That's interesting about Thunderbird. What exactly would those powers be?

Oh, don't worry. Look at my last post and you'll see I write walls of text as well.

MarvelousToons

Oh okay lol I mean I've known GMikey for a while, but as close. I felt I could trust him, glad he was honest.

On Scott and Jean, Thanx! Their relationship was kinda bland to me, and because they were the focus couple, I found them quite annoying. I like spice and depth in any kind of relationship, that is supposed to be central in a story. I'll be honest, in this story, their relationship starts off central, but then becomes secondary as a different pair does take center stage, due to the story's progression. We still get development of their relationship, which plays a major role in my re imagining of the Phoenix Trilogy.

On Thunderbird aka John Proudstar. Canon to comics, his powers can be summed up to "super running" and "super strong". THAT'S. IT. I decided to give his character a major facelift, changing his backstory as well. His physical mutation appears as organic wings that were "enhanced" with nano-cybernetics (to help him control his power better).

Thunderbird's new skill set are catastrophic atmokinesis (weather manipulation), psionic allspeak and animal telepathy, light speed travel via lightning, electromagnetic pulses, and some level of psionic empowerment. He also possesses some shamanic abilities. Later on, he uncovers his destiny of what it means to be the Thunderbird. Storm becomes to Thunderbird what Jean is to Scott. Storm is a master of her powers, and so John finds himself often in her comfort as he is often unable to (always) control his powers.

PhoenixRising

Well I'm glad that you both chose to come here, then.

Oh, so you think Scott and Jean are bland? In the movies or in the comics? In the original trilogy they didn't really commit to developing them all that much, but in the new trilogy I think they were done a lot better. I don't see how their relationship can't take center stage in the Phoenix Trilogy. But which couple did you want to take center stage?

Oh, so Thunderbird gets to steal Angel's thunder, huh? But in addition to Angel already having wings, doesn't Storm already manipulate weather? And lightspeed? Well, that's a bit much if you know the physics. Lightning doesn't technically travel at the speed of light; more like one third the speed of light. Also, you don't want to over-power a character because that can create problems with what you can do with a character. I do like the idea of him having shaman-like abilities, and having a relationship with Storm sounds interesting.

MarvelousToons

LOL okay let's clear some of this confusion...

I should have said that, in watching the X-Men TAS, I found Scott and Jean's relationship bland. I'll be honest, I didn't care that much about them in the movies either, (TAS rly spoiled them for me). As I said they would start off as the central couple and move to secondary, it doesn't mean that their relationship isn't highly focused on. Aamof, I stated in the previous post that Scott and Jean's relationship plays an important role in the development of the Phoenix Trilogy, throughout. What couple takes center stage later on? That's a spoiler I'd have to DM you about (and the story as a whole IS open for fan suggestions and contributions).

The Phoenix Trilogy is something I kinda came up with, after learning that a number of X-Fans are dissatisfied with how the Phoenix has been handled in both movies and comics (myself included). It comprises of The Phoenix Saga, Dark Phoenix Saga, and The ??? Saga. I have some really innovative ideas of what I would do with the Phoenix, had the cosmic entity been an OC invention of my own. However, my ideas would heavily conflict with the canon Phoenix Force, and along with other reasons, is why I created a "Third Act". That way Phoenix fans would have something familiar (but allows innovation), yet X-Fans wanting something new and fresh, will get their wish too

The "Third Act" revolves around the rise of the Phoenix's new cosmic rival, who's "One True Avatar" is one of the other X-Men. This story ultimately splits the X-Men and the situation pits them against each other, amidst fight the real enemy. That's where the other couple takes more of the center stage.

About Thunderbird... He was heavily requested for our new line up as a different face in the X-Men. Problem is, the canon character doesn't at all match his name. The way I've written the story I think makes him a lot more interesting, and complements the narrative better. Thunderbird is a team member that gets to use his powers very sparingly as he can't control them well. He's somewhat used as a last resort, like when the team is overwhelmed by Sentinels for ex., then he gets to unleash, often causing regrettable levels of destruction. He also gets severely drained whenever he unleashes so much, so its a hard thing for him to balance.

This gives Storm something to do and an interesting relationship; she gets to use her personal experiences and aid from Xavier and Jean Grey, to help him learn his powers and overcome his childhood trauma and demons. And yes LOL I know lightning isn't the speed of light, it was said informally. But he can travel at high speeds through lightning.

This also gives reason for Thunderbird's new personality, being very reclusive and reserved. Scared to ever emote and lose control, but seems to always be silently on edge. Yet he's also highly empathetic on deeply personal and symbiotic level, making it easy for him to relate to underdogs.

Example is Gambit. We'll get to see much better uses of Jean Grey's telepathy and empathy, however her obstacle is Gambit, the only person she simply cannot psionically penetrate, which causes a rift between them as, she doesn't trust him for not opening up and being sneakily secretive, and he doesn't trust her for wanting in on his mind (for an arguably good reason). And this puts Gambit in quite the bad with Cyclops.

Thunderbird however empathizes, understanding what its like to live with inner demons, in a way Jean doesn't understand (as she's lived a completely balanced life). Whenever Gambit was kinda ostracized by the others, Thunderbird would always hang out with him, and they develop such a trustful bond, that Thunderbird was actually able to penetrate a small something that allowed him to further understand Gambit's story.

Thunderbird having wings makes him a good rival for Angel, and so they will compete on several occasions. Plus they are polar opposites in personality, Angel is self-righteous, arrogant, judgmental and a bit flashy, while Thunderbird is reserved, observing, and hates loud behavior LOL

Sorry for the wall of text, but I hope I made some of this clearer lol

PhoenixRising

No problem. That wasn't nearly as big a wall of text.

But have you read Scott and Jean's relationship from the comics? One of my problems with the movies and the animated shows was that Scott and Jean's relationship was always downplayed and never really developed like it was in the comics. They were just never portrayed accurately on screen is all. I did like Sophie and Tye's storyline as Scott and Jean, though. I felt that, while not perfect, it came closer to getting it right than anything else Hollywood has done so far. I agree, they've never done the Dark Phoenix storyline right.

Guess you're not gonna spoil me with who the "one true avatar" is, huh?

I see what you mean about Thunderbird, but still, lightning doesn't travel at lightspeed, just so you know. Just be wary of overpowering him because that can start to make a character boring, when they have fewer and fewer obstacles. That's why DC eventually had to de-power Superman after a while.

Man, you're really making Gambit a total jerk. My co-mod will love that.

MarvelousToons

LOL time for another Great Wall of Text

I've read OF Jean and Scott's relationship (tbh not in gr8 depth) and... it still does nothing for me. I've "sped read" some of the comics involving the Phoenix, so I have a bit of understanding of their relationship, like when Scott became Dark Phoenix, his affair with Emma Frost, in Jean becoming White Phoenix he had to let her go and stuff... but it does nothing for me... at all.

I was never a Jean Grey fan to begin with, and I've rewritten her to make her character more relatable as per my opinion, and I totally changed her relationship with the Phoenix and why she's it's One True Host. I always rolled my eyes with the varying incarnations from canon. My new reason for their bond and relationship I feel brings more credence, logic and substance to their connection and relationship. Especially as Jean's connection with Phoenix is tied DIRECTLY with the new Cosmic Entity, and it's relationship with its "One True Avatar".

Also, giving a massive obstacle to the Phoenix, is gonna give it more complexity, and depth for the narrative to explore. To explore the Phoenix and its Cosmic Rival, and how they clash, yet they're actually interrelated.

I can reveal the "One True Avatar" in a PM. Looking at the CP, I think I can do so if you friend me, or I add you as a contact.

Trust me, Thunderbird will not be overpowered This character has plenty of obstacles to overcome, and much he has to learn.

LOL Gambit bion is actually one of my favorites I've always wanted to see his character utilized in an innovative way, and this is the story for that. And its the reason why he starts off as a jerk, that's secretive, and not always a team player. He starts off more as an antihero than a hero. There's quite the voyage this character has. And as the episodes progress, more is revealed for why he's conflicted, and we do see growth. His character however, takes a major, and somewhat dark turn after he's expelled. He winds up joining a mysterious group, which is classified by Thanos himself as "galactic terrorists".

It'll be a long, long time... like, several seasons later before Gambit and Rogue (due to circumstances) rejoins the X-Men. Even then, he's still not totally welcomed, due to what kind of creature he's become.