[secretk]

Originally Posted by Wilpen (View Post) I am just not as logical and organized in this way. Unless we're talking statistical analysis in psychology when I absolutely have to be. But as a rule, I don't think as much with charts and graphs. It's more about gut feeling and intuition. With me, decisions need to feel right rather than making pure logical sense. Worrying too much about others emotions kind of ruins the pure logical way of dealing with things for me and it's a struggle. An organized environment and harmonious relationships with colleagues are a must whereas I believe you value freedom in the workplace, but thrive in environments that are logical, efficient, and structured, with colleagues that are intelligent, competent, and productive. You've even said this more than once too. Your job allows you to effortlessly use your analytical skills to problem-solve in a challenging environment, and to implement your own original ideas... For me, I am still stuck and caught up on making sure the environment is harmonious, lol.

Makes sense . Good comparison! Yeah I am a living contradiction. I could do both. Sometimes I go with my gut, other times I go full on charts, graphs and all that. I do think that harmony at work usually helps, but I also think that sometimes you need to disrupt it to make things better. I love to give freedom to smart capable people and I do prefer that type of people, but I do restrict people that I do not find that smart.

So what I mean by analyzing and organizing... I don't go with your pure logical process (completely and regularly) because I can't... too many other things are getting in the way. So I do a form of this but it's melting together with the empathy, harmony, etc. The process is way more natural for you in other words because thankfully you don't have things obstructing you like I do, lol. I think this is why you can easily exist in an extroverted environment while working whereas it's so difficult for me to go there.

Your first preference is the Feeling (Empathy) and then organizing your own thoughts. For me it's the other way around. I first go for structuring and organizing the environment around me and then I check my own moral code. This is why we both have a mix of harmony and logical approach, but in different percentages and shades.

Out of the workplace I can go with pure logic more easily but still, the empathy and intuitive in general gets in the way.

What do you mean by out of the workplace? Is in the way you interact with family and friends or it's more about you and a process that is focused internally on you and your way of living?

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) Makes sense . Good comparison! Yeah I am a living contradiction. I could do both. Sometimes I go with my gut, other times I go full on charts, graphs and all that. I do think that harmony at work usually helps, but I also think that sometimes you need to disrupt it to make things better. I love to give freedom to smart capable people and I do prefer that type of people, but I do restrict people that I do not find that smart.

The bold cracks me up even if you are just telling it like it is, not even in a mean way. I still love it, haha. If I attempted to say something like that I'd have to second and third guess, even feeling guilty for admitting it since there's that damn empathy.

Your first preference is the Feeling (Empathy) and then organizing your own thoughts. For me it's the other way around. I first go for structuring and organizing the environment around me and then I check my own moral code. This is why we both have a mix of harmony and logical approach, but in different percentages and shades.

Seriously, makes 100% sense. But I also think that's why our types are so compatible. We DO have a similar process even if it's flipped around and different if that makes sense.

I read this on Personality Hacker... it's regarding romantic relationships for INTJ and INFJ but friendship can apply too and covers what we're discussing too... it basically states you are better at the logic stuff and I'm better at the social/audience stuff, haha:

I’m an INTJ personality type. And, for most of my life, I felt like it was very hard to find a partner who really “got” me. That changed when I started dating an INFJ—someone who is like me in so, so many ways, yet as different as the sun and the moon in others. The relationship we’ve built together may not always be what people might call an “explosive” love, but it’s one of the happiest and most fulfilling I’ve ever had. It turns out we’re not the only ones. While INFJs and INTJs can butt heads around our Thinking/Feeling divide, in many ways, we are drawn to each other. As a result, this pairing is a common one (as common as any pairing can be for such rare personality types). If you know an INFJ/INTJ couple, expect them to be together for a while—there is a good chance that wedding invitations are in the future. What Makes INFJs and INTJs A Perfect Match? Both INFJs and INTJs have Introverted iNtuition or “Perspectives” as their dominant mental process, which makes them brilliant, but also makes them quirky outliers who often don’t fit in. As a result, when an INFJ and INTJ meet they can easily feel like it’s the first time anyone has truly understood them. Having a dominant Perspectives function in common also lets INFJs and INTJs dive deep into each other’s experiences. This mental process, which I liken to metacognition, is what allows human beings to step back and take a bird’s-eye view of the world, including how other people think. When Perspectives-dominant people are together, they find it easy to see past each other’s differences and identify underlying similarities. This is part of what makes these two types form such deep bonds, and why INFJ/INTJ relationships feels so smooth. Other things that make this a great pairing include: The conversations never get old. Anyone who’s had a long relationship knows that, over time, you can run out of topics to talk about. But INFJs and INTJs always seem to have fuel for great conversation. Yes, things do quiet down after a few months—we’ve already heard each other’s funniest stories, after all. But with our shared love of learning, and the joy we take in connecting different ideas, conversation remains intellectual and riveting long-term. You can be quiet together. The introvert couple that stfu’s together stays together. It’s impossible to overstate how gratifying it is to spend time with my partner, doing separate things in complete silence. It could be reading, writing, or simply perusing our devices side-by-side; we’re both totally happy with quiet time. (The INFJ is more prone to breaking the silence with an amusing observation, while the INTJ will produce less frequent but far longer rants about something they just read.) These two types back each other up. If you’ve never experienced it, it’s hard to understand how meaningful it is to have a partner who supports your life goals. This may be especially true for INTJs and INFJs, who both tend to have big ambitions but occasional problems with implementation. Thankfully, the problems tend to be complementary: I can help my INFJ plan her work and troubleshoot problems, while she helps me take the social pulse of a situation and gauge whether a project will even find an audience. Finally, as Introverts and Judgers, both the INTJ and the INFJ tend to have a reserved, “normal” exterior covering up a whole lot of iNtuitive weirdness underneath. Together, we get to let our quirky sides out and indulge our flights of fancy—without giving up our generally organized lives.

Looks like an INFJ male might be a really good match for you.

What do you mean by out of the workplace? Is in the way you interact with family and friends or it's more about you and a process that is focused internally on you and your way of living?

Both.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by Wilpen (View Post) The bold cracks me up even if you are just telling it like it is, not even in a mean way. I still love it, haha. If I attempted to say something like that I'd have to second and third guess, even feeling guilty for admitting it since there's that damn empathy.

Yeah I guess not everyone finds it that easy to admit such things. I do like to give freedom to people, but not everyone proves worthy of this. And sometimes people do mistakes that affect others so those kind of people need to be restricted.

Seriously, makes 100% sense. But I also think that's why our types are so compatible. We DO have a similar process even if it's flipped around and different if that makes sense.

There are for sure similarities . And with the years they got more and more. I mean the more INTJ and INFJ mature, the more they mesh.

I read this on Personality Hacker... it's regarding romantic relationships for INTJ and INFJ but friendship can apply too and covers what we're discussing too... it basically states you are better at the logic stuff and I'm better at the social/audience stuff, haha:

That's true .

Looks like an INFJ male might be a really good match for you.

You never know, but I usually do not like Extroverted Feeler men. They are nicer than me and that just puts me off . I do think that INTJ man with INFJ woman would work out far better than the other way around.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) Yeah I guess not everyone finds it that easy to admit such things. I do like to give freedom to people, but not everyone proves worthy of this. And sometimes people do mistakes that affect others so those kind of people need to be restricted.

Makes sense.

There are for sure similarities . And with the years they got more and more. I mean the more INTJ and INFJ mature, the more they mesh.

Absolutely.

That's true . You never know, but I usually do not like Extroverted Feeler men. They are nicer than me and that just puts me off . I do think that INTJ man with INFJ woman would work out far better than the other way around.

LOL!

[secretk]

As promised this is excerpt about the brain working for Introverted Intuitives:

https://www.psychologyjunkie.com/201...ted-intuition/

“The Ni types often show a whole-brain, zen-like pattern. This pattern occurs when all regions of the neocortex are in synch and dominated by brain waves that are medium-low frequency and very high-amplitude….What is this zen state like? When presented with a problem, the Ni types seek to harness all neocortex regions in order to “realize” an answer. Imagine a troop of blind men trying to identify a secret object by touch. One man feels a trunk and says, “tree”; another detects four legs and says “table”; a third feels tusks and says “boar”. Like the blind men, each region offers a different perspective, and a zen-like synchronous state allows the person to reconcile various perspectives to arrive at a best-fit answer (an elephant).”

And this show the way INFJ and INTJ use their Ni:

For me personally, Ni reveals insights and revelations about people that seem to come out of the blue. Like anyone, I’ll mess up sometimes and misread something or someone. However, being Ni dominant means we are always trying to think of the “big picture” and put together a future plan or idea composed of all the bits of sensory information you’re giving us. We support our Ni with either Fe (for INFJs) or Te (for INTJs). These auxiliary functions help us to actually do something with our visions instead of just leaving them there. For the INFJ it motivates us to connect with people, or inspire people with our ideas. For the INTJ it can mean creating an innovative system or plan. There’s really no specific way that all INJs use their intuition and auxiliary functions, but generally the auxiliary function helps us to “bring out” our vision in some tangible way.

[secretk]

I thought that it's better to continue our talk about Dopamine and Extroverts here. An interesting article about it - https://www.quietrev.com/why-introve...t-the-science/.

One major difference between the brains of introverts and extroverts is the way we respond to the neurotransmitter dopamine. Dopamine is a chemical released in the brain that provides the motivation to seek external rewards like earning money, climbing the social ladder, attracting a mate, or getting selected for a high-profile project at work. When dopamine floods the brain, both introverts and extroverts become more talkative, alert to their surroundings, and motivated to take risks and explore the environment.

It's interesting what dopamine does for us . I had not thought how it's related to all those aspects in our life.

It’s not that introverts have less dopamine present in their brains than extroverts do. In fact, both introverts and extroverts have the same amount of dopamine available. The difference is in the activity of the dopamine reward network.

Same thing as you said .

Introverts prefer to use a different neurotransmitter called acetylcholine, writes Christine Fonseca in her book Quiet Kids: Help Your Introverted Child Succeed in an Extroverted World. Like dopamine, acetylcholine is also linked to pleasure; the difference is, acetylcholine makes us feel good when we turn inward. It powers our abilities to think deeply, reflect, and focus intensely on just one thing for a long period of time. It also helps explain why introverts like calm environments—it’s easier to turn inward when we’re not attending to external stimulation. When I lounge at home in quiet solitude, lost in a book or watching Netflix, I’m basking in the pleasant effects of acetylcholine.

This is the part I had forgotten. I knew that Introverts turn to different neurotransmitter but I did not remember it. I only found it interesting that in general I could not find that much literature about it. Definitely less compared to serotonin and dopamine for example.

Acetylcholine is linked to the parasympathetic side of the nervous system, which is nicknamed the “throttle down” or “rest-and-digest” side. When we engage the parasympathetic side, our body conserves energy, and we withdraw from the outer environment. Our muscles relax; energy is stored; food is metabolized; pupils constrict to limit incoming light; and our heart rate and blood pressure lower. Basically, our body gets ready for hibernation and contemplation—two of the things introverts like the most

Definitely makes sense because this is indeed how Introverts recharge.

Another interesting article - https://www.truity.com/blog/science-...d-introversion.

This is interesting too:

Importantly, the dopamine pathway is shorter than the acetylcholine one

ETA: And another one - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...7/pdf/main.pdf

[jediwands]

^^^^^ Really interesting stuff! I know all about Dopamine and the Introvert/Extrovert connection. I studied this extensively in college for both degrees. Personality Type stuff is brand new for me. Really, really interesting! I am going to take my time and read the links you supplied. Thanks!

[jediwands]

Such an INFJ thing to say, the wording is awesome, lol. It's amazing to me that Rowling has been my hero for years and it's because I could always relate to her, feel the same things, etc. Now I know it was due to having the same personality type, along with just loving her mind in general:



I can see why she wanted to perfect this chapter... it was complicated (Dark Mark), with many things like racism and other major themes, not to mention a huge turning point of the series.

[secretk]

Btw that reminds me do you want to start trying to type the Resident characters? It would take some time for sure .

[jediwands]

This week sucks for me.

1. Anna's graduation is Friday/Saturday.
2. I have clients from Chicago coming to the University. Last minute decision.
3. Three friends/two cousins from Cleveland are coming tomorrow so they can attend Anna's graduation.

= insane week.

Next week starting would be much better if it works for you.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by Wilpen (View Post) This week sucks for me. 1. Anna's graduation is Friday/Saturday. 2. I have clients from Chicago coming to the University. Last minute decision. 3. Three friends/two cousins from Cleveland are coming tomorrow so they can attend Anna's graduation. = insane week. Next week starting would be much better if it works for you.

Definitely insane . How about we start next weekend? I mean not this one, but next because I have this trip to Frankfurt next week.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) Definitely insane . How about we start next weekend? I mean not this one, but next because I have this trip to Frankfurt next week.

Perfect!

[secretk]

Originally Posted by Michelle How long have you experienced the intense emotions and then not caring? I don't think you have bipolar (just my gut feeling) but we'd have to explore more. We could discuss more on the health thread if you want.

I used to feel intense anger since young age. I would throw lots of tantrums as a kid back from age 3/4. It was struggle for my mother because if we have conflict we would go into full power struggle. I would get pissed that she is annoyed with me or upset/mad at me and we would go into full power argument in the sense that she would slap me slightly or raise her voice at me and then I would not talk to her until she apologizes. I was very specific kid.

Then at elementary school I have had cases where boys would hit me or try to hit me and let me tell you that they would get it back from me. I was not one to back down. I have never done serious damage, but I was not also the one to cry. I have never even told my parents and I was like 3/4th grade. I would just find a way to fight back. I have not had clear physical damage either. I would get a fist in my stomach like that and I will just push back. I have even thrown rocks at a person and they were like "You could have hit me in the head". I told them you started the fight first so you had it coming. I won't sit back and let you hurt me. If you try to attack me be prepared for everything. This is why I know that I could defend myself with full blown anger/rage. I did not hurt them as I was not good aim. But trust me when this happened I had no control or what's so ever. The anger overpowered me fully and the only thing I was thinking about was fighting back.

My tantrums and bursts of anger continued until age of 15/16. It was really bad because I had conscious enough to realize that first this way I hurt my parents, second I look completely insane. So I just decided to employ strategy where I would release my anger by being alone and use some physical activity to let it out. My mother had hard time accepting that in such situations I want to be alone. She thought that if she could talk to me I would get better, but this did not work for me because in my anger I would hurt her with words. I am not physically aggressive, but I could have pretty aggressive talking style.

I am not aware of my other emotions so I don't know if I control them or not.

I seriously could be the nicest person out there, but I could also be scary. If someone crosses a line or pisses me off I really start hitting pretty aggressively. I would just purely humiliate said person. I would throw a bunch of words really quickly giving them no opportunity to even comprehend what I have said. Then I would attack every statement coming from them. I am not fun to be around when I am pissed. This is why I prefer to be alone, to sort out my anger and then I am nice as cucumber again. I easily get angered and I easily move on with my anger because I let it out on my own and then decide on how to proceed to solve the situation that angered me.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) I used to feel intense anger since young age. I would throw lots of tantrums as a kid back from age 3/4. It was struggle for my mother because if we have conflict we would go into full power struggle. I would get pissed that she is annoyed with me or upset/mad at me and we would go into full power argument in the sense that she would slap me slightly or raise her voice at me and then I would not talk to her until she apologizes. I was very specific kid. Then at elementary school I have had cases where boys would hit me or try to hit me and let me tell you that they would get it back from me. I was not one to back down. I have never done serious damage, but I was not also the one to cry. I have never even told my parents and I was like 3/4th grade. I would just find a way to fight back. I have not had clear physical damage either. I would get a fist in my stomach like that and I will just push back. I have even thrown rocks at a person and they were like "You could have hit me in the head". I told them you started the fight first so you had it coming. I won't sit back and let you hurt me. If you try to attack me be prepared for everything. This is why I know that I could defend myself with full blown anger/rage. I did not hurt them as I was not good aim. But trust me when this happened I had no control or what's so ever. The anger overpowered me fully and the only thing I was thinking about was fighting back. My tantrums and bursts of anger continued until age of 15/16. It was really bad because I had conscious enough to realize that first this way I hurt my parents, second I look completely insane. So I just decided to employ strategy where I would release my anger by being alone and use some physical activity to let it out. My mother had hard time accepting that in such situations I want to be alone. She thought that if she could talk to me I would get better, but this did not work for me because in my anger I would hurt her with words. I am not physically aggressive, but I could have pretty aggressive talking style. I am not aware of my other emotions so I don't know if I control them or not. I seriously could be the nicest person out there, but I could also be scary. If someone crosses a line or pisses me off I really start hitting pretty aggressively. I would just purely humiliate said person. I would throw a bunch of words really quickly giving them no opportunity to even comprehend what I have said. Then I would attack every statement coming from them. I am not fun to be around when I am pissed. This is why I prefer to be alone, to sort out my anger and then I am nice as cucumber again. I easily get angered and I easily move on with my anger because I let it out on my own and then decide on how to proceed to solve the situation that angered me.

Interesting. Obviously you have had some difficulty controlling anger over the years and at a very young age too which tells me there's a biological component in play. It wouldn't be environment (at least not only environment) because you wouldn't be going there as a toddler like that unless you lived in a super unhealthy situation at home and that wasn't the case for you.

It also seems like quite often it was a situational thing for you... being provoked at school, for example. But then again, you also had some anger stuff way earlier on too. I don't really know about putting a label on it... I mean, there's plenty of things but it would have to be digging deeper into your history to sort this out. It could be Intermittent explosive disorder, a form of BPD, maybe Bipolar, and a few other things.

When you were seeing the therapist in the past, did you explore this at all?

[secretk]

Originally Posted by Wilpen (View Post) Interesting. Obviously you have had some difficulty controlling anger over the years and at a very young age too which tells me there's a biological component in play. It wouldn't be environment (at least not only environment) because you wouldn't be going there as a toddler like that unless you lived in a super unhealthy situation at home and that wasn't the case for you.

Yeah true . Then again as I was pretty young I don't remember what I was angry about. I remember being compelled to read psychology books as the age of 11/12 to find answers for my behavior though. I do remember that some of the stuff that were happening could have been actually explained with some of my environment. My environment has never been extremely unhealthy. There were some slight issues, but definitely not something big. Problem was that I could get affected by my environment a lot more compared to regular young children. It seems that I would pick up some stuff on subconscious level that could get me provoked. For example I did not need to be more than 4/5 to know that my grandmother prefers my cousin over me. I was not more than 4/5 to know that my parents have some issues and my grandmother had suggested my mother divorce. I was not more than 4/5 to know that my mother had some serious issues with her dad. I was also around that age when I picked up this bad energy from a female relative that was causing issues for my parents.

I don't think that it's their fault, nor I think that it was something serious. I think that the fact that I was picking up on that stuff and could grasp what was going on did affect me in a way because I knew for some reason what was going on, but I was not mature enough (because of my age) to know how to handle the stuff I knew.

I remember that I would see my mother crying after fights with my dad I would just go to her, hug her and tell her that if she wants to leave my dad I will support her. I was 6 at that time. I don't think that usually 6 years old kids do stuff like that. Sometimes I feel like I experienced some issues just because I was not at always at the normal maturity level for my age. For some stuff I was normal, for others I was a bit advanced and did not know what to do with this or how to express it. I remember that I also had fears about almost everything. Like it was not normal for my age to be that afraid of stuff. It's why I never actually hurt myself seriously as a kid because I would just know that getting high is a risk for me to fall down and it was something I did not want to happen to me. My father definitely believed that I had a lot more fears than normal and that this fear caused delay in me learning how to walk. It's like I was afraid to do it.

It also seems like quite often it was a situational thing for you... being provoked at school, for example. But then again, you also had some anger stuff way earlier on too. I don't really know about putting a label on it... I mean, there's plenty of things but it would have to be digging deeper into your history to sort this out. It could be Intermittent explosive disorder, a form of BPD, maybe Bipolar, and a few other things.

Yeah definitely could be more than one .

When you were seeing the therapist in the past, did you explore this at all?

No because this kind of ended after my teen years. Then I did not have any issues until maybe 1/2 years ago so I kind of think that stress at work could affect me a bit when it comes to this as well. But yeah at that time I did not have anger issues actually. I of course also did not have that mush social interaction so I might not have been in the situation to be upset with something,

But yeah we did not explore this back then as at that point I did not have issues with it.