[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) That's a very good point Michelle. The truth was bound to come out sooner or later. No matter how you look at it, the Madisongate storyline was a huge disaster for everyone involved and it never should have taken place.

Madisongate was the biggest mistake in an otherwise nearly perfect series. I really wonder why Berlanti decided to go all soap opera. Yes, the Colin situation was dramatic but it was well written. Ephram dating Delia’s adult babysitter was ridiculous enough... but impregnating her was as bad as it gets. When Madison calls Ephram sweetie the name Mary Kay Letourneau pops into my head.

Just an all around waste of time, gross storyline.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Patricia Thinking about it now, when she was SO OPEN with everything that happened. I think it was more about Madison clearing her conscience. I'm sure Madison had major guilt for doing what she did. I don't think she was telling Ephram for Ephram, I think it was about her and Andy. She really hated the way Andy handled things. But honestly, what else was he supposed to do? His teenage son's over aged girlfriend comes to him on a random day and says she's pregnant? Are they supposed to have a baby shower and have sing along songs? Madison was stupid to go to Andy first. She should've gone to Ephram first, but that is at touchy subject given that he was only 16 or so at the time. The one thing that really gets me is that she just let Andy do everything. Didn't she think she would never see Ephram again? She's living in New York that not only is the place where he grew up but also has the best music school in the country? It's a small world, she couldn't avoid him forever. I just think if Madison didn't want to keep the baby, which was probalby never her plan to begin with, she should've just never gone to Andy. Leave well enough alone and give the baby up for adoption. That's what happened in the end anyway. That kid will never know who his real parents were. If Ehpram wasn't always so hellbent on going against whatever Andy said, then maybe the baby just would not exist. Ephram, at the time, was all about whatever Andy didn't want him to do whether it was not study for a test or date a girl who was too old for him. I'm not saying it's all Ephram's fault, Madison should be bare some of the responsibility too. It's not like it doesn't take two people to do what they did. Madison new it was wrong. How embarrassing was it that her friends took her out for her birthday to a club and Ephram...just couldn't go. The relationship was doomed from the start. I felt really bad for Ephram. He had a girlfriend, they were...sexually active...and then he gets punched in the gut for being reminded of his age. That was the low point, I think. We all know Madison was a heartless bitch. Let's just get that out there. BUt how could Andy, after all him and Ephram have worked on their relationship, how could he hide this from him. Ephram was considering Andy a friend and not just a father that he had to get along with in spite of everything else. The bleeding ulcer, yes the affair was bad, especially the circumstances that went along with how they were connected. I think it hurt Andy more that he was lying to Ephram. Ephram created a life, a life that is living and breathing and learning things. Ephram deserved to know. Could Andy really never tell Ephram? What happens when Ephram (we know he'll marry her lol) and Amy have children. Ephram could say something "this is our first baby" or something like that. How can Andy hide the fact that Ephram was already a father. Sure we can debate all day long about fathering, not knowing, whatever...but he had a son out there. How could Andy have a smile on his face knowing that Ephram didn't know half of what he was supposed to know?

I can't even add anything... it's just too good, Patricia.

Excellent thoughts!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Betty She would think about it, but she was stronger then Madison and would not let Andy dictate what she thought was right. Regarding Harold....he had kept Andy's secret up until then, and would probably tell Amy that he trusts her to make a good decision as to what to do.

Yep. I also think Andy respected and cared for Amy too. He wouldn't have ever put her in a terrible situation. He didn't care about Madison and why should he to be perfectly honest? She lied to him. She told him she wouldn't hurt Ephram and nothing bad would come of their illegal relationship. She lied. All lies. Andy shouldn't have cared for or respected Madison. She was horrible to him from the start. Not saying the way he handled things was ideal. Still, Madison was awful. Andy never cared for her and rightfully so.

So I think Andy would have handled things with Amy much differently. Harold would have been on guard too. He would look out for Amy. Andy knew that too.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Patricia Reminds of the same instance when Jake told Andy about Ephram getting an STD test. it's a doctor/patient confidentiality. What gave Harold the right to share that news with Amy. Andy shared the news in confidence with a fellow colleague. It was no business of Harold to repeat the information to anyone. Then if Madison or Amy didn't tell Ephram, Amy would have. How much worse could it have gotten. The current girlfriend tells the guy that he got his previous girlfriend pregnant and the baby got put up for adoption, while...guy had no idea the previous girlfriend was pregnant. So I mean the puzzle just gets more jigsaw with every component. There was no easier way out of this. The baby existed, Ephram was 16 years old, Madison was a twit in the process. Madison should have never went to Andy in the first place. How did she think it was going to go if she told the father of her ex boyfriend that she was pregnant? It's clear that Madison was afraid to tell Ephram, because only then, it occured to her that Ephram was a mere 16 years old.

Excellent points. So true. Very true about Harold too. I know it's tough... Amy is Harold's daughter. Harold also knew what happened with Colin and how much heartache Amy has endured in her life. Naturally he wants to protect her. That said, you make a great point about if it was even right for Harold TO tell Amy about the pregnancy given all the professional factors involved.

I don't see Amy and Ephram the type of couple to divorce. However, I do think it would take an incredibly long time for Ephram to forgive Amy for not telling him. They would have a strained and possibly consider divorce. But in time, I think Ephram would realize that Amy's heart was in the right place. In the end, I think, Ephram would be most angry at Andy for handling it the way he did since he was the first person of Ephram's world to find out about it.

Well, let's put it this way... their marriage would have been severely strained for a while for sure. There's no way, even if Ephram/Amy are Soulmates, connected intensely both emotionally and romantically, they wouldn't suffer a while over this. It would have been a strain on their marriage at the very least.

It's not in Amy's nature to hold back, honestly.

Not in the least. LOL

[break the window]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) Brilliant posts Patricia.

Thank you

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) but I do understand why Madison went to Andy. A lot of us talk about how she was an adult having a sexual relationship with an under-aged teenager, but she was probably a teenager herself or 21 at the most, so she also was very young and she was probably vulnerable and scared and she wasn’t sure who to turn to, and so she turned to Andy, who was a doctor and someone that she looked up to, and he was also Ephram’s father. But when she did go to Andy, he pretty much told her to get lost and he asked her if she was sure that Ephram was the father, and he offered to pay her off and he told her to not tell Ephram to “protect his innocence” but his “innocence” went out the door when he allowed Ephram to date Madison and they started having sex, so that ship had sailed and he had himself to blame for that. Andy really handled the whole Madisongate story horribly from beginning to end and I wish it all had never happened.

What gets me is that she let him. She took the money, she wanted to get out of Everwood. I know being pregnant, especially by her younger boyfriend wasn't apart of her plans. But she let Andy just get rid of her like she never mattered to Ephram. Like it or not, she did matter to Epharm in some parts of his life. I know that Madison did end up returning a check, but that doesn't account for the fact that she never planned on returning to Everwood. Did she ever plan on telling Ephram. Like you said, Jerry, she probably did count on Andy to know the right thing to do. But what about Ephram. Did she just assume that Andy would tell Ephram at some point...do the dirty work for her so she didn't have to face the truth.

My question is, why didn't Madison just have an abortion? She didn't want the baby and it wasn't an ideal situation. She was living in New York and shocked when she saw Ephram. So it speaks to me is that she wanted to put the pregnancy and baby all behind her and never have to think about it.

[jediwands]

I will never understand why Madison went to Andy about the pregnancy in the first place. I don’t buy it when people say she had to. BS. There was both Harold and Jake in town, Denver wasn’t far with women’s health centers all over the place. She did not have to go to Andy. They didn’t have a close relationship. She failed him as an employee and personally treated him with disrespect (yelling at him in his own home) not to mention confusing his little girl and getting pregnant by his underage son.

Everything she did was wrong. It wouldn’t surprise me if she secretly took pleasure in telling Andy she was pregnant. She did NOT have to go the Andy. She had a million other options, including going directly to Ephram. Oh that’s right, she was embarrassed in public with Ephram but was okay sexing him up in a car. I guess she was back to believing he was a boy who wouldn’t understand. Even if I can go to a million other places I’ll go to Andy knowing I’ll shock and upset him, putting him in a horrible position. Yes, that’s the best plan.

Man, I hated her.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) I will never understand why Madison went to Andy about the pregnancy in the first place. I don’t buy it when people say she had to. BS. There was both Harold and Jake in town, Denver wasn’t far with women’s health centers all over the place. She did not have to go to Andy. They didn’t have a close relationship. She failed him as an employee and personally treated him with disrespect (yelling at him in his own home) not to mention confusing his little girl and getting pregnant by his underage son. Everything she did was wrong. It wouldn’t surprise me if she secretly took pleasure in telling Andy she was pregnant. She did NOT have to go the Andy. She had a million other options, including going directly to Ephram. Oh that’s right, she was embarrassed in public with Ephram but was okay sexing him up in a car. I guess she was back to believing he was a boy who wouldn’t understand. Even if I can go to a million other places I’ll go to Andy knowing I’ll shock and upset him, putting him in a horrible position. Yes, that’s the best plan. Man, I hated her.

I completely agree with this Michelle, but from a storytelling angle, it was done by the writers to create drama, but what they created was cheap drama that altered the entire tone of the series, and in some ways it never recovered from that storyline. The news of Madison's pregnancy hung over the end of Season Two and all of Season Three like a ticking time bomb, and when that time bomb exploded, it negatively impacted all of the key relationships on the show, and much of Season Four was spent with everyone picking up the pieces. What blows me away that if the show had been renewed, Madison and the pregnancy/baby storyline would have come back yet again, further delaying Ephram and Amy's reunion and forcing Ephram and us fans in the audience to deal with Madison and the baby yet again. I still don't understand why the writers thought that storyline was something anyone wanted to see, and why they thought that anyone would want to see it again.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I completely agree with this Michelle, but from a storytelling angle, it was done by the writers to create drama, but what they created was cheap drama that altered the entire tone of the series, and in some ways it never recovered from that storyline. The news of Madison's pregnancy hung over the end of Season Two and all of Season Three like a ticking time bomb, and when that time bomb exploded, it negatively impacted all of the key relationships on the show, and much of Season Four was spent with everyone picking up the pieces. What blows me away that if the show had been renewed, Madison and the pregnancy/baby storyline would have come back yet again, further delaying Ephram and Amy's reunion and forcing Ephram and us fans in the audience to deal with Madison and the baby yet again. I still don't understand why the writers thought that storyline was something anyone wanted to see, and why they thought that anyone would want to see it again.

Right. The pregnancy and how long she lasted on the screen is what the vast majority of fans were upset about. She entered the screen early season 2 and the storyline was still in play if even directly in season 4 due to the broken pieces needing to get fixed. Yes, if season 5 would have happened we would have seen her ugly mug early season 5 when she selfishly returned to try and steal the baby away from the only parents he had ever known. She would have looked like trash going there. We didn't need to see it since so many of us already thought she was trash.

But for the life of me, I will never understand why Beralnti thought this was a good idea. His series, outside of the Madison storyline, was the complete opposite of the typical shows that go with soap opera crap. The storyline was entirely unnecessary on Everwood. It didn't fit in the least.

The "drama" could have been seeing Ephram/Amy long distance while they went to other colleges in season 4. If Berlanti wanted a pregnancy storyline, he could have had Amy and Ephram dealing with a pregnancy scare instead. Maybe Amy actually getting pregnant but losing the baby or Ephram/Amy just thinking they were pregnant and she really wasn't. Now THAT would have made things much more realistic and interesting since it was happening to our favorite romantic couple and we could have watched once again (Colin seasons 1/2, could have been pregnancy scare/colleges seasons 3/4) how serious events only brought them closer together due to their soulmate connection.

There were endless other ways to insert some drama. We didn't need to see an adult sex up a minor, get pregnant, and temporarily destroy all the main dynamics of the show. We didn't need to see Andy in a relationship with a woman who had a neurologically-impaired husband as a result of the pregnancy and his guilt. Even the Madison band lie was tied to the pregnancy and disgusting EM relationship. So not necessary.

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by fulfilledღ (View Post) Thank you

You do word your thoughts beautifully, Patricia!

My question is, why didn't Madison just have an abortion? She didn't want the baby and it wasn't an ideal situation. She was living in New York and shocked when she saw Ephram. So it speaks to me is that she wanted to put the pregnancy and baby all behind her and never have to think about it.

Not everyone feels comfortable having an abortion. That's is a really tough decision. Another reason could be that Madison waited too long to make a decision about the baby and it was too late to have an abortion.

[jediwands]

For me, it all goes back to why the trouble-making nitwit went to Andy in the first place. She should have gone to someone unbiased, professional, who would have given her ALL of the options she could consider... which is precisely what women's health centers are for. These people are trained medical professionals who can help women make decisions based on physical and mental health. Of course she didn't go there because the horrible singer never made a sound decision from that terribly depressing day she entered the Brown house.

[break the window]

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) I will never understand why Madison went to Andy about the pregnancy in the first place.

It's not like Everwood only had one town doctor. They had 3! Did Madison think Andy would just wave some magic wand and it would all go away. That is fancy neurosurgeon medical degree would erase Ephram's memory of Madison? What was she thinking. She had an opportunity to make things right. Maybe she didn't have to tell Ephram, but she did need to do good by Ephram. Letting Andy "take care of everything" didn't do good by Ephram at all. I don't know why she went to Andy either. It's a conflict of interest. Not only is Andy Ephram's father, but Andy is that baby's grandfather. It's way more of a connection then just a girl who got pregnant by her teenage boyfriend and visits the town doctor. I wonder if Madison ever considered the fact that she was going to Andy about her pregnancy and Andy was the grandfather in this situation. IMHO, I think it changes things drastically when you put that into perspective. It wasn't Ephram losing out on a son, Delia losing out on a nephew, it was also Andy losing out on his grandson.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) I don’t buy it when people say she had to. BS. There was both Harold and Jake in town, Denver wasn’t far with women’s health centers all over the place. She did not have to go to Andy. They didn’t have a close relationship. She failed him as an employee and personally treated him with disrespect (yelling at him in his own home) not to mention confusing his little girl and getting pregnant by his underage son.

It's clear, crystal clear that Madison didn't want this child. She had no intentions of keeping the baby, and if she did in the beginning, she had no idea what she was getting herself into. She could have gone to Denver, lived up there for nine or so months, choose a wonderful family to adopt to, no one would be the wiser. Ephram and Andy would never have had their MASSIVE falling out in Season 3. But I do think their falling out in Season 3 made them closer in Season 4, but then again, we don't have an alternative

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Everything she did was wrong. It wouldn’t surprise me if she secretly took pleasure in telling Andy she was pregnant. She did NOT have to go the Andy. She had a million other options, including going directly to Ephram. Oh that’s right, she was embarrassed in public with Ephram but was okay sexing him up in a car. I guess she was back to believing he was a boy who wouldn’t understand. Even if I can go to a million other places I’ll go to Andy knowing I’ll shock and upset him, putting him in a horrible position. Yes, that’s the best plan.

And having unprotected sex with a fifteen year old? What did she think could happen? Yeah, surprise! A fifteen year old guy's equipment does work rather well. Did she not the she could get pregnant since he was only fifteen or sixteen. That's right, she didn't think. She didn't care that she was screwing up Ephram's life. She was coming between a father and son who were maybe, just maybe finally starting to connect on a level that wasn't garnered by hate on Ephram's side.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Man, I hated her.

Join the club lol

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I completely agree with this Michelle, but from a storytelling angle, it was done by the writers to create drama, but what they created was cheap drama that altered the entire tone of the series, and in some ways it never recovered from that storyline. The news of Madison's pregnancy hung over the end of Season Two and all of Season Three like a ticking time bomb, and when that time bomb exploded, it negatively impacted all of the key relationships on the show, and much of Season Four was spent with everyone picking up the pieces. What blows me away that if the show had been renewed, Madison and the pregnancy/baby storyline would have come back yet again, further delaying Ephram and Amy's reunion and forcing Ephram and us fans in the audience to deal with Madison and the baby yet again. I still don't understand why the writers thought that storyline was something anyone wanted to see, and why they thought that anyone would want to see it again.

With the way Season 5 was looking to be with Madison coming back into town, I get why the writers went with Madisongate. Not that I agree with it one bit, there was a reason, I think. Everwood was a wholesome little box of love that we (ya'll since I joined the party late) had for four years. Let's face it, television hasn't been wholesome since women had dinner like clockwork on the table at 5pm and wore poodle skirts with high heels while cooking a roast. They were going the dramatic route. Everyone knew that Madison and Ephram were never going to last. It was like one of those May December romances that are kind of nice in the middle but really don't last very long. But the writers needed Madison to stick around. Deliah was turning fifteen and didn't need anyone to look after her, so yeah, here comes Madisongate courtesy of Ephram super sperm at fifteen. This may not make sense as thinking about Everwood in 4 seasons, but putting pieces together of what Berlanti & Co were planning for a possible 5th season, I think it sorta fits

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Patricia It's not like Everwood only had one town doctor. They had 3!

Exactly! I remember back in the day people saying she felt the most comfortable with Andy. BS. Should have been the exact opposite! They were never friendly since Madison screwed him over as the worst babysitter on the planet. She went against everything he asked of her. She was a failure in every way. I’m shocked she had the guts to approach Andy without suffering a severe panic attack. No way would any sane woman only feel comfortable with him! No freaken way. It says a lot about her character since she went right to Andy without caring about what she would cause by going there. Deep down she probably figured eventually Ephram would find out too. But she wouldn't tell him, she would drop everything into Andy's lap, forcing him to make touch decisions.

Originally Posted by Patricia Did Madison think Andy would just wave some magic wand and it would all go away. That is fancy neurosurgeon medical degree would erase Ephram's memory of Madison? What was she thinking. She had an opportunity to make things right. Maybe she didn't have to tell Ephram, but she did need to do good by Ephram. Letting Andy "take care of everything" didn't do good by Ephram at all. I don't know why she went to Andy either. It's a conflict of interest. Not only is Andy Ephram's father, but Andy is that baby's grandfather. It's way more of a connection then just a girl who got pregnant by her teenage boyfriend and visits the town doctor. I wonder if Madison ever considered the fact that she was going to Andy about her pregnancy and Andy was the grandfather in this situation. IMHO, I think it changes things drastically when you put that into perspective. It wasn't Ephram losing out on a son, Delia losing out on a nephew, it was also Andy losing out on his grandson.

Completely agree! No clue what Madison expected by going to Andy. Most women would have enough sense not to consider Andy as an option. Not Madison. It’s like she secretly wanted to rub it in. Or she knew he’d send her away. It’s almost like she set Andy up to be the bad guy which is why she went to him. She never wanted the baby. Not even for a second. She wanted Andy to take the fall.

Originally Posted by Patricia It's clear, crystal clear that Madison didn't want this child. She had no intentions of keeping the baby, and if she did in the beginning, she had no idea what she was getting herself into. She could have gone to Denver, lived up there for nine or so months, choose a wonderful family to adopt to, no one would be the wiser. Ephram and Andy would never have had their MASSIVE falling out in Season 3.

100%. She never wanted the baby. Ever! I will never feel otherwise. Andy took the fall so it appeared as if dear old Maddie never had any options as she was forced to listen to Andy. BS! And pigs fly! No way! She never wanted the baby! She was considering adoption or abortion, never keeping the baby. Nope. The right thing to do would have been like you said, going to Denver, getting counseling on what her options were, and making a decision. Instead, she made Andy take the fall.

Originally Posted by Patricia But I do think their falling out in Season 3 made them closer in Season 4, but then again, we don't have an alternative

I agree. It did make them closer. Their relationship really evolved after Ephram returned from Europe. It did all work out even better in the end.

Originally Posted by Patricia And having unprotected sex with a fifteen year old?

She was a poor excuse for a human being. She made me sick. Bad enough you have sex with a boy who lost his virginity to you (so gross) but to get pregnant as well.

Originally Posted by Patricia What did she think could happen? Yeah, surprise! A fifteen year old guy's equipment does work rather well.

Lol Seriously.

Originally Posted by Patricia Did she not the she could get pregnant since he was only fifteen or sixteen. That's right, she didn't think. She didn't care that she was screwing up Ephram's life. She was coming between a father and son who were maybe, just maybe finally starting to connect on a level that wasn't garnered by hate on Ephram's side.

Hate her. She was the worst thing to happen to father/son, Ephram in general. She should have apologized endlessly for all the pain and suffering she caused. Not Madison.

Originally Posted by Patricia Join the club lol

LOL I’ve never hated a TV character more as far as affecting a series I cherish so much. She was a walking dark cloud of evil.

[break the window]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Exactly! I remember back in the day people saying she felt the most comfortable with Andy. BS.

That could not be further from the truth. She was never comfortable around Andy once she started to date Ephram. She knew it was wrong but she did it anyway. Once she found out she was pregnant, everything was going to be awkward. But the awkward award goes to Madison for thinking that going to Andy was the best option? Was he the only doctor offering free medical care that was the draw? If it were me, money would not be an option if it meant not going to Andy.

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) She wanted Andy to take the fall.

She wanted Andy to take responsibility and he did. I think Andy, still reeling from the years of being the absentee parent, took the fall. He wanted to protect Ephram when Ephram was finally at the cusp of everything he dreamed up when it came to playing the piano. Andy wanted to keep Ephram on a path of greatness. Andy knew that this would wreck him. Ephram may not have realized this, but him and Andy are cut from the very same cloth. They have a gift with their hands. Andy is surgery, Ephram is piano. They have the same boldness when it comes to how they care. They will go to the ends of the earth to show they care and to protect the ones that they love. This was Andy's going to the end of the earth. He would do anything to keep Ephram from pain either emotionally or physically. It almost worked too. But the **** had a conscience when she sent the check back.

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) 100%. She never wanted the baby. Ever! I will never feel otherwise. Andy took the fall so it appeared as if dear old Maddie never had any options as she was forced to listen to Andy. BS! And pigs fly! No way! She never wanted the baby! She was considering adoption or abortion, never keeping the baby. Nope. The right thing to do would have been like you said, going to Denver, getting counseling on what her options were, and making a decision. Instead, she made Andy take the fall.

This gave me an idea for an alternative story that would still have the the same outcome....(maybe add it to our little discussion we have going on right now)

What if Madison went to Denver, had the test and found out she was pregnant. Knowing that she didn't want to keep the baby, she stayed in Denver or somewhere far from Everwood. She carried the baby to term and gave the baby up for adoption.

Flash to the midway end of Season 3, Ephram goes through with his audition and he makes it, doesn't make it into Juliiard. Not important right now. Flash to Season 5, if we were granted a Seaosn 5, Madison, as we know comes back to Everwood. What if Madison told him in Season 5? I think that would be the reason, the only reason, for Madison to come back into Season 5. To clear her conscience and make things right. I think I would've liked that better. Not only would Andy get to be his confidant, but Ephram could direct all his hate to Madison instead of the way he did to himself and to Andy and to Amy, Harold and pretty much everyone in Everwood.

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Hate her. She was the worst thing to happen to father/son, Ephram in general. She should have apologized endlessly for all the pain and suffering she caused. Not Madison.

The thing that makes it so bad about Madison was Ephram already lost one parent. He felt like he got left with the wrong parent when Julia. Finally, FINALLY, he was finding out what it was like to have a father that cared and not one that just handed him his credit card and went along his merry way Then Madison came in, it was like Ephram lost his father and he had no parents to lean on. So, yeah, hate for Madison just got a whole lot worse.

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) She was a walking dark cloud of evil.

always taking the sun away

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Patricia That could not be further from the truth. She was never comfortable around Andy once she started to date Ephram. She knew it was wrong but she did it anyway. Once she found out she was pregnant, everything was going to be awkward. But the awkward award goes to Madison for thinking that going to Andy was the best option? Was he the only doctor offering free medical care that was the draw? If it were me, money would not be an option if it meant not going to Andy.

Precisely. I honestly think it makes her look even worse because like you said, she knew it was wrong to date Ephram yet still went ahead with it even knowing how much Andy was against it. It'd be one thing if she didn't see the problem and was clueless. But she knew better yet still went against Andy's wishes and dated his underage son. Then to get pregnant by his underage son and think nothing of marching straight to Andy for help? To rub it in? I still don't understand what the moron's motive was. Like you said, Andy was not the best option and I honestly believe she knew as much but still went there. There are tons of free clinics for her situation too. She could have gone anywhere. She could have had her pick of clinics/centers in Denver alone. Not Madison. She marched to Andy for whatever insane (and maybe even devious) reason.

Originally Posted by Patricia She wanted Andy to take responsibility and he did. I think Andy, still reeling from the years of being the absentee parent, took the fall. He wanted to protect Ephram when Ephram was finally at the cusp of everything he dreamed up when it came to playing the piano. Andy wanted to keep Ephram on a path of greatness. Andy knew that this would wreck him. Ephram may not have realized this, but him and Andy are cut from the very same cloth. They have a gift with their hands. Andy is surgery, Ephram is piano. They have the same boldness when it comes to how they care. They will go to the ends of the earth to show they care and to protect the ones that they love. This was Andy's going to the end of the earth. He would do anything to keep Ephram from pain either emotionally or physically. It almost worked too. But the **** had a conscience when she sent the check back.

Absolutely. Great point about Andy and Ephram both having gifts. That is so true. I also think Andy was so happy that they survived the ups and downs of season 1. At times, Ephram couldn't stand the sight of Andy (or he acted like it). So they had come a long way since season 1. I don't think Andy wanted a terribly dramatic situation like a pregnancy getting in the way of their father/son growth and Ephram's happiness. Andy also knew Ephram/Amy were finally making it work romantically. He had never seen Ephram so happy and in love. He knew what being with Amy meant to Ephram and Andy didn't want to take it away from his son. Madison put Andy in an impossible, disgusting position.

Originally Posted by Patricia This gave me an idea for an alternative story that would still have the the same outcome....(maybe add it to our little discussion we have going on right now) What if Madison went to Denver, had the test and found out she was pregnant. Knowing that she didn't want to keep the baby, she stayed in Denver or somewhere far from Everwood. She carried the baby to term and gave the baby up for adoption. Flash to the midway end of Season 3, Ephram goes through with his audition and he makes it, doesn't make it into Juliiard. Not important right now. Flash to Season 5, if we were granted a Seaosn 5, Madison, as we know comes back to Everwood. What if Madison told him in Season 5? I think that would be the reason, the only reason, for Madison to come back into Season 5. To clear her conscience and make things right. I think I would've liked that better. Not only would Andy get to be his confidant, but Ephram could direct all his hate to Madison instead of the way he did to himself and to Andy and to Amy, Harold and pretty much everyone in Everwood.

I would have LOVED that scenario! All the blame and angry feelings would have gone to the right person... Madison. Ephram would have despised her if she waited that long because like you said, it would have been about making things right for HER in a selfish way. Yes, had she gone there it would have only brought Andy/Ephram and Ephram/Amy even closer instead of the temporary separations that took place.

Originally Posted by Patricia The thing that makes it so bad about Madison was Ephram already lost one parent. He felt like he got left with the wrong parent when Julia. Finally, FINALLY, he was finding out what it was like to have a father that cared and not one that just handed him his credit card and went along his merry way Then Madison came in, it was like Ephram lost his father and he had no parents to lean on. So, yeah, hate for Madison just got a whole lot worse.

SUCH a good point. Ephram felt like he had no one on his side when Madisongate exploded. He felt like he couldn't trust anyone. Plus, he had to deal with loss too... he was losing a son he would never know... it was another sort of "death" for him to mourn. Awful situation all around all thanks for Madison. I will forever blame the witch. She was the freaken adult. She never should have seduced/agreed to date a minor in the first place. If she would have made the right adult decision (NOT getting involved with the underage son of her employer) none of this would have happened. She is to blame for everything. I despise the character.

Originally Posted by Patricia always taking the sun away

Exactly.

[break the window]

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