[jediwands]

Not really. We can talk about any topic/subject for as long as we want.

Do you have another discussion question we could tackle?

[break the window]

I had posted this one a couple of pages ago

What if Julia got pregnant with a third baby and had an abortion and Andy didn't find out about it until after moving the kids to Everwood? Coming from the idea that Julia was basically a single parent because Andy was working all the time.

you can reword it, if it's too long

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by fulfilledღ (View Post) I had posted this one a couple of pages ago What if Julia got pregnant with a third baby and had an abortion and Andy didn't find out about it until after moving the kids to Everwood? Coming from the idea that Julia was basically a single parent because Andy was working all the time. you can reword it, if it's too long

Love it! I'll shorten it a bit in the title.

Okay, let's discuss! What does everyone think?

[Jerry D]

I think that Andy would have been shocked and disappointed that Julia had done that, but just like with the affair that he found out that she was having shortly before her death there would have been nothing he could have done about it, and since he had come to peace with Julia's affair he probably would have come to peace with that revelation too. I would seriously doubt that Julia would have done such a thing though.

[jediwands]

I totally agree, Jerry. I think Andy would have reacted just he did with the affair. He would have taken the blame for both just like he felt the need to even try to take the blame and "erase" Madison's pregnancy too. I also doubt Julia would have ever done that either. I think Ephram would have especially been devastated if he found out about his mother having an abortion or getting pregnant and giving it up for adoption. It would have been way too heavy of a situation for Ephram to understand. He could hardly wrap his brain around the affair. Anything more and it would have been quite difficult for him.

[break the window]

Somehow I think this might not be a great discussion question because it would be so OOC for Julia.

But I do propose this question...

What if Amy was the one in the coma, Colin pleading with Andy to operate on her. Surgery is successful, her and Ephram fall hard for each other, as they did. What would that do to the dynamic that was Colin and Amy?

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by fulfilledღ (View Post) Somehow I think this might not be a great discussion question because it would be so OOC for Julia. But I do propose this question... What if Amy was the one in the coma, Colin pleading with Andy to operate on her. Surgery is successful, her and Ephram fall hard for each other, as they did. What would that do to the dynamic that was Colin and Amy?

It just wouldn't be the same. We would feel more sorry for Colin and Ephram would be considered more of a rat for stealing Colin's girlfriend. Either way Ephram would be taking Colin's girlfriend, but in this case scenerio it would be assumed that Colin really loved Amy and wasn't about to break up with her.
Plus...how would Ephram even meet Amy if this were the case? Would Ephram and Colin become friends while Amy was in a coma? That could happen while Colin is working on Ephram to get his dad to operate on Amy.
This would also change the initial dynamic of Ephram and Bright. Bright would have no reason to bully Ephram and would probably befriend him as well for his sister's sake.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) It just wouldn't be the same. We would feel more sorry for Colin and Ephram would be considered more of a rat for stealing Colin's girlfriend. Either way Ephram would be taking Colin's girlfriend, but in this case scenerio it would be assumed that Colin really loved Amy and wasn't about to break up with her. Plus...how would Ephram even meet Amy if this were the case? Would Ephram and Colin become friends while Amy was in a coma? That could happen while Colin is working on Ephram to get his dad to operate on Amy. This would also change the initial dynamic of Ephram and Bright. Bright would have no reason to bully Ephram and would probably befriend him as well for his sister's sake.

I completely agree with this Betty. If Colin had befriended Ephram to get Ephram to convince Andy to operate on Amy, the entire relationship dynamics of all of the characters would have changed and Colin would look like the good guy for trying to get his girlfriend the help she needed (and if that was the case, this version of Colin wouldn't be looking to break up with Amy) so Ephram would have looked like a backstabber if he then fell for Amy after she came out of her coma and our view of all the characters would have been very different.

[jediwands]

Totally agree with your thoughts, Betty and Jerry.

Also... I just never viewed Amy and Colin as the meant to be couple under any circumstance. At the same time, Amy and Ephram were destined to be together. So any equation would have caused Ephram/Amy to get together romantically. Their energy was like white on rice, meant to come together.

[jediwands]

Here is a question...

There are plenty of fans who liked the character of Laynie and were quite upset when she basically disappeared at the end of season 2/beginning of season 3, never to return.

What if Laynie wouldn’t have left... how would you have constructed Laynie’s journey in seasons 3 and 4? Anyone you would have liked seeing her with romantically? Would she have gone to college? Would Amy and Laynie have remained close friends? How would the Hart’s as a whole adjusted in the final seasons and would Laynie have grown closer to her parents?

Thoughts?

[Jerry D]

Excellent topic question Michelle.

I would have much preferred to have Laynie become a regular character in Season Two and instead of having Madison be Ephram’s first love interest, I would have loved to have seen Laynie be that love interest. I would have liked to have seen Laynie turn to Ephram for solace over the loss of her brother while Amy had her own grief arc away from both of them, because her and Ephram had immediately clicked once they met and Ephram would be one person that would understand what it’s like to lose a family member. As time went on I would have liked to have seen them develop feelings for one another, and that could have served as the catalyst for Amy to snap out of her grief and depression over the loss of Colin as she saw her best friend with the boy she loved but couldn’t admit that she loved.

I could see the end of Season Two playing out with Ephram being torn between his feelings for Laynie and his feelings for Amy, and Amy being torn between her feelings for Ephram and not wanting to hurt her best friend, and then they could have ended it all with Laynie realizing that Ephram’s heart was with Amy and telling Ephram to follow his heart.

I would have liked to have seen Laynie in the subsequent seasons possibly developing feelings for Bright and having Bright and her fall for each other, and that could have completed the circle of the Harts and the Abbotts.

I much preferred Laynie as a best friend for Amy instead of Hannah, because they treated each other as equals and they had a history while Hannah was foisted upon us as Amy’s instant best friend since Laynie was written off the show, and I always felt like Amy treated Hannah as a pet project. I also didn’t like seeing Hannah as a love interest for Bright because they were mismatched and I found Hannah to be a boring and dull character, while Laynie was feisty and exciting, and she could have been an interesting love interest for Bright since they had history and they knew each other well.

[jediwands]

Thanks, Jerry! I'm shocked this question has not been asked in the past. I don't think it has. It is a good one because so many of us were Laynie fans.

Outstanding thoughts, Jerry! I will comment after I get some work done and have more time to think.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) Excellent topic question Michelle. I would have much preferred to have Laynie become a regular character in Season Two and instead of having Madison be Ephram’s first love interest, I would have loved to have seen Laynie be that love interest. I would have liked to have seen Laynie turn to Ephram for solace over the loss of her brother while Amy had her own grief arc away from both of them, because her and Ephram had immediately clicked once they met and Ephram would be one person that would understand what it’s like to lose a family member. As time went on I would have liked to have seen them develop feelings for one another, and that could have served as the catalyst for Amy to snap out of her grief and depression over the loss of Colin as she saw her best friend with the boy she loved but couldn’t admit that she loved. I could see the end of Season Two playing out with Ephram being torn between his feelings for Laynie and his feelings for Amy, and Amy being torn between her feelings for Ephram and not wanting to hurt her best friend, and then they could have ended it all with Laynie realizing that Ephram’s heart was with Amy and telling Ephram to follow his heart.

You should have written seasons 1 and 2, Jerry. I love this entire scenario. I even like how Amy and Ephram both would have feelings for the Hart siblings but in the end, realize it wasn’t true love because they were developing just that together in a slow burn way. It would have been another way to emphasize the significance of the Harts while demonstrating the soulmate bond between Ephram and Amy.

I've always despised that Ephram lost his virginity to an adult babysitter in a car. I will never get over how gross it was. I’m convinced Berlanti wanted us temporarily tortured. Ephram (and the fandom!) deserved better. I think it would have been magical seeing Ephram and Amy have their first sexual experience and first time together all rolled up into one. How unique and special would it have been if Ephram and Amy would have been IT for each other? The reality is Ephram was going to be Amy's only one and for Ephram, it was the gross babysitter and Amy. So it's not like Ephram was with anyone else anyway. Gross babysitter didn't need involved. Should have deleted the creepy babysitter and just had Ephram/Amy experience it all together, and only together. Ephram/Amy were that magical, it would have made sense for them. We could have totally seen this had your scenario played out too.

I would have liked to have seen Laynie in the subsequent seasons possibly developing feelings for Bright and having Bright and her fall for each other, and that could have completed the circle of the Harts and the Abbotts.

I was always intrigued by the possibility of Laynie and Bright. Man, Laynie could have sorted Bright out very quickly, lol. Plus, I will always believe Laynie was way more Bright's type than Hannah. I love how you stated it would have completed the circle of the Harts and Abbotts. The fun reality would have been Amy and Colin were not destined to connect the two families long term... Bright and Laynie were instead.

I much preferred Laynie as a best friend for Amy instead of Hannah, because they treated each other as equals and they had a history while Hannah was foisted upon us as Amy’s instant best friend since Laynie was written off the show, and I always felt like Amy treated Hannah as a pet project. I also didn’t like seeing Hannah as a love interest for Bright because they were mismatched and I found Hannah to be a boring and dull character, while Laynie was feisty and exciting, and she could have been an interesting love interest for Bright since they had history and they knew each other well.

Completely agree. You understood why Amy and Laynie were friends. It made sense. Amy and Hannah, not so much. I think Rina was going for the Ephram = Hannah ... thus, Amy would naturally have been drawn to Hannah as well. Nope, I never bought it. Rina mentioned Hannah was her high school personality. I think Rina got carried away and lived out her high school years on the screen via Hannah by giving Hannah (herself) the handsome jock for a love interest and the beautiful, popular best friend. Apparently we were just along for the ride while Rina played out her high school years over again. Not sure where the cheating came in... it's possible that was her way of showing deep down Bright/Hannah (aka her and the jock she drooled over in high school) were never meant to be.

Bottom line is Laynie shouldn’t have been pushed off a cliff at the end of season 2. There was so much left for Laynie... how she continued to adjust to her brother's death, as Ephram’s brief love interest, Amy’s continued best friend, Bright's long term significant other, as well as carrying the torch, representing the Harts for the rest of the series.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) I agree with you and Jerry. Hannah/Amy were not believable as best friends. They were just too different to be that close. They had totally different views and both were unwilling to accept this about each other. And Amy did treat Hannah sometimes as a project.

Opposites attract can sometimes work in romance and friendship but not in this case. They were way too different and yes, the project angle was in full play from the start.

I also did not find Bright/Hannah that believable. Again too different even for the opposites attract aspect. I feel that both Hannah and Bright needed to mature and grow up separately before ever having something together. I could see them ending up together potentially but say in 5 years when Bright have matured enough to be able to see a relationship as something more than just sex. And Hannah would have be old enough to realize that she either needs to find a man following her religious beliefs or accept the fact that there are not a lot of men willing to be in a long relationship without any sexual activity. It was like Bright was on peak A, Hannah was on peak B and they both had to climb down and meet in the middle. The distance was big enough for this to happen in the span of 1 or even 2 seasons.

Definitely not believable, Bright and Hannah. I like how you said they were on different peaks. 100%. It was just too much. I know Hannah told Amy way back in early season 3 Ephram was not her type, Bright was. Well, there is such a thing as a Bright type who also falls in line with her religious views too. There are jocks who go to church. Hannah went for Bright instead and it was set up to fail from the start. I actually dated on and off for years a guy in elementary, middle and high school who was Catholic (conservative Catholic) and was waiting to have sex before marriage and didn't care who knew. He never forced his views on anyone but was strong and didn't feel embarrassed. He was also the captain of the Varsity Hockey team too. That type of guy does exist in real life (if even slightly rare).

Bright and Laynie would have worked out nicely. Guaranteed they would have slept together fairly early on in their relationship and would have been in sync going there too without Bright pressuring Laynie. They would have mutually gone there naturally. Laynie was strong enough to put up with Bright's flaws and Bright would have appreciated Laynie's wit, intelligence and strength.

As for Laynie well she was my favorite female character in Everwood so that pretty much tells you how I felt when she was pushed back and eventually replaced with Hannah who was just a lot less compared to Laynie.

I wonder why this happened. I remember back in the day the Nora/Laynie thread was on fire with endless posts from people pissed off/confused over why Laynie disappeared and Hannah appeared instead. We never received confirmation on why this transpired. We did know Nora did not ask to leave. It seemed like a writing/storyline decision. We know season 3 was the season Berlanti stepped back some and gave the captain of the ship tag to Rina. Rina brought in Hannah. I wonder if Rina was the reason why Laynie was dumped in favor of Hannah. I do remember that the first sides we received on Fanbolt the summer before season 3, was the character of Hannah being a single white female character obsessed with Amy, causing all kinds of odd and serious trouble for Amy. She would become totally obsessed with Amy. We were on the Spoilers thread at Fanbolt freaking out, lol. I totally remember how much fun it was discussing. However, it was like a bipolar situation... Hannah went from single white female in the initial sides to the good girl, religious Christian, all pure and conservative, geeky two seconds later in edited sides! It was that quick, we are talking within about two weeks we saw single white female, then the purity version with sides and parts of transcripts. It was insane. I wonder if Rina stepped in and changed things up once she gained the leadership role.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) And their story would have been interesting because they would have had Colin to talk about and bond. Bright might be even reluctant in the beginning because he might wonder how Colin would have felt about it.

Yes, it would have kept Colin "alive" and the Abbotts and Harts bonded even if Bright might have had some hesitancy as well. However, it would have been nice watching Bright go with it because he'd want to make Colin proud, treating his sister right. I think he'd realize he would have been honoring Colin in the end by treating his sister like a million bucks. Bright would have felt good about the situation... in love with Laynie, honoring Colin, and taking care of Colin's sister, looking out for her.

In my opinion removing Laynie and adding Hannah are to unrelated issues. They got rid of Laynie because for them Laynie was only the sister of Colin and nothing else. They did not realize how interesting she was and how much more she could have brought to the table so they got rid of her. Then they realized that Amy had no female friends and decided to change this obsessed girl story to Hannah being Amy's new BFF. Problem is it was not authentic.

Yes, we explored the reality that they wanted to get rid of all Harts even if, of course, TPTB never said as much. It's obvious they wanted to go there. But it can't totally be a coincidence that the second Amy's talking about Laynie at some other school, Hannah's in her face two seconds later. Hannah was the Laynie replacement even if they didn't consciously realize it. Then again, the single white female bit transitioned to Hannah good girl too so they probably thought instead of Hannah being psycho towards Amy and Ephram/Amy, she would be inserted into their lives in a good way instead. It's shocking they didn't realize how many fans loved Laynie. All they had to do was go to the active forums on both Fanbolt and Fan Forum to see how much people loved Laynie. Really bad decision to get rid of Laynie. At the time on this very board, the Nora/Laynie thread was just as popular as the Ephram/Amy thread. In fact, those were the two most popular threads for a good stretch of time.