SPORTSUSA

Palin mainly appealed to the American male conservative audience down south who thought she was hot.
I know that's a harsh statement but it's not opinion, it's fact, when you read the stats of what target audience liked her and the reasoning for it. I was shocked.

I totally agree that Huckabee isn't a huge force to be reckon with come next election. If some rare event took place and he was I would literally freak out though because he does scare me. But I also feel the conservative base needs major restructure because it's more than obvious something aint working.

jediwands

You really hate her.

But you're right about her appealing to this audience although I think they did have conservative beliefs to begin with but her hotness was a factor too probably.

Bush really put them in a bind. I find it funny how Europeans, especially, believe we are so conservative as a rule and that's really not the case if you do the breakdown. I think, well according to Alex, they were really shocked how we voted for Bush twice but I told her there was way more to that than meets the eye. Many Americans felt like he made the mess, he should sweep it up, coupled with the 911 situation. It was complicated. I remember during his second term re-election many liberal friends of mine said that they almost wanted him back in there to expose his flaws all the more and make it well known that his way was never going to work, the conservative approach to the economy, etc. I really believe many moderates and some liberals either didn't:

A) Love Kerry enough
B) Truly wanted to see Bush exposed for his mistakes and also the Cheney hatred was growing as well so people wanted him exposed.

I know as a liberal I could have never voted for Bush even if I sort of agree with what they were saying about keeping him in for four more years for exposure, but admittedly for me my biggest thing was I wasn't that in love with Kerry. He just didn't click with me even if I still voted for him. I suppose after having a charming Clinton in there (personal faults and all) the next democrat after that to represent the party was going to have tough shoes to fill and Kerry didn't cut it, along with the other reasoning as to why Bush was re-elected. Obama was just what liberals, many moderates, even some conservatives, were looking for.

Speaking of Obama... I had a conversation with Alex about this not too long ago.

I am pretty frustrated whenever I hear non-Americans claim that we are such a conservative country whenever most of that comes from our southern influence and even Alex admitted, sadly, America is sometimes viewed due to Southern behavior and beliefs. Which then I talked about how the world media loves for their countries to see what they want to see so of course they're showing the south and then making it seem like that's our entire country, its beliefs and way of life which couldn't be further from the truth. The media sucks but that's another issue all together.

Anyway, back to President Obama and the conservative/liberal thing I was attempting to talk about since I am all over the place, sorry about that. What I said to Alex was if America is so conservative and maybe even so called racist as is sometimes depicted with the world media involved, why is it that we voted in, in President Obama, the first black president who to many, has almost socialist views whenever countries have NEVER voted in a black president and they claim big time socialist values and anti racism belief systems?

I think it speaks volumes that America accomplished this because the world view of us living like bible loving, racist, conservatives can hopefully be toned down now given we did something that so called very socialist countries are not at the point of doing yet, voting in the best person for the job, a black man who was capable and charming and yes, very liberal, many claim he is the most liberal president we have ever elected into office.

Wow that turned into a rant/ramble, somewhat patriotic red/white/blue and it was all over the place but I hope it made some sense.

everwoodfan52

I think that we get a bum rap from the rest of the world as far as our political believes and values are concerned.
But....after visiting Europe last summer and talking to Europeans and Canadians about politics....the rest of the world is so liberal that it makes the American liberals almost seem conservative in comparison.
I found most of the liberals in Europe that I spoke to closer to socialists.
Of course, I didn't speak to every European or Canadian...but this was how I the few that I spoke to seemed.

jediwands

You're right about that, too. So agree. I have discussed in length the politics in France with Alex and it is very true that our liberal party here is much more conservative than theirs. There's that fact for sure.

But what's interesting is their president, Sarkozy, he is still a Bush lover and Alex cannot stand him because he is trying to take away their vacation time, he is wanting to take from their welfare funds, so he is doing what our conservative party wants to do here, but at a more watered down level. However, his principles are generally the same as Bush even if he is probably closer to President Obama on some things than Bush.

I just cannot stand the American depiction, man. I cringed severely whenever she told me that a major European belief is that Americans as a whole, our way of life, is just like our south. LOL. I am not trying to rip the south, but man, how incredibly inaccurate is that? In many ways Northerners and Southerners are so opposite in way of life, belief systems, that one could make an argument that we are two countries inside of one. I cannot believe some non-Americans believe east coasters, west coasters, and midwesterners are all exactly like southerners in our way of life. That is just so incredibly ignorant but I don't blame the Europeans who think this... I blame the media for shoving this inaccuracy down their throats with such manipulation it makes me sick.

SPORTSUSA

I could not agree more about the inaccurate perception we, Americans, get. Can you even imagine how we are in the news around the world? Well, like you were saying, Michelle, people think all Americans live the southern way of life which is completely incredible. What a joke, seriously. I think people who have never been here don't even understand how big we are in space and just how DIFFERENT the people are based on where you live. Yes, the eastern us, the western us, the midwest, we all have the same type of living with the biggest theme being NOT living like the south. One of my friends from school who is originally from Germany said that this country can be divided in half, the southerners and the rest, and that is exactly what you were talking about. She gets it! Because she has experienced it and seen it firsthand. The world media loves to be so fricken inaccurate.

PS: Yes, I am not a fan of Palin politcally.

PPS: Your post 287 was glorious. Classic you to have an intelligent rant.

jediwands

Thanks. LOL.

There are a billion reasons why Alex and I are so close it's like we are as one, LOL, and this is certainly one of the reasons. Talking and learning about our countries, continents, and all the differences. We never argue about this or anything like that. We talk and talk extensively we do. But yeah, Alex IS my accurate media whenever it comes to learning about these things. I had absolutely no idea how many Europeans believe all Americans live the southern way of life. I was shocked, completely shocked. Mind you, there is NOTHING wrong with living the southern way of life if you want to live the southern way of life OR if all Americans were about that but that's not true. It would be like southerners finding out that other parts of the world believe they all live like Yankees, and lets see how many of them would like this fact? They wouldn't.

I just watched an episode of the Golden Girls (I honestly think this is the best American comedy ever created for writing, acting, chemistry, everything was brilliant) and the character of Blanche, a southern native, was talking about how she went to the prom with a Yankee and made it seem like it was such a stepping stone and she went against what everyone in the south frowned upon but the others thought she meant she went with a black man to prom and that was the big stepping stone, interracial, but she was shocked like, "Black, no, he was a Yankee, I went to the prom with a YANKEE!" Like in the south that is sooooooooooooooo horrible.

I mean, even with a comedic show poking fun maybe with more of an exaggeration type of display, it still goes with the notion of how different the north and south are in this country. So it's quite amazing to me how many people from other parts of the world don't know this.

SPORTSUSA

Heh. I watch the Golden Girls. I know that episode, that is very perceptive on your part! Man, so true, the dynamic between Dorothy (native NYer) and Blanche (southerner) is so evident with the differences between cultures within our borders. That is so true! I also adore this show. It never gets old, look at how long it ran and how it persists in rerunland? Classic. Absolute classic.

That is so cool how you and Alex have these exchanges together. I'd imagine you two never run out of things to say to each other. That is so awesome.

everwoodfan52

I love the Golden Girls as well.

But why did they make the character (Rose) from Minnesota so dumb?

SPORTSUSA

Well that's the irony I think. She truly is the most insightful and down to earth out of them all is why they did this. That is the one part of the show that is very exaggerated as far as her denseness but I believe they make it ironic. Also, the city she is from is about 1% in population and they are all farmers living in farmland. Minnesota has farms, sure, but not like that, the Twin Cities are totally city life and not like that in the least.

jediwands

Exactly. They exaggerate all of the characters since no one in the south is that ****ty, no one is that rough and tough in NY like Dorothy and Sophia (well they are a bit more dead on because they are more about having the attitude in NY which is pretty close), and no one is dumb like that in Minnesota. Even farmers in Minnesota, they have what is called the DFL in Minnesota... the democratic farmers league which is why Minnesota is so overwhelmingly liberal because all the city folks AND farmers are all liberal.

I agree that Rose is made to show how throughout her denseness she is the smartest of them all, with the most wisdom, and they show this all the time.

If you've ever seen Beverly Hills 90210, Brandon and Brenda lived in a suburb of Minneapolis before moving to LA and there you go, that is a true Minnesota personality. Brandon, loving hockey, being such a decent down to earth guy with great family values and a wonderful head on his shoulders. That is the perfection depiction right there.

SPORTSUSA

DFL ROCKS in Minny!

So true about all the characters on the show being exaggerated to an extent.

90120, perfect example of a typical Minnesotan in Brandon, and the Walsh family in general. Hockey loving, down to earth, sweet, intelligent, people, that is the perfect depiction of Minnesotans. Look at even the movie Fargo with Frances McDormand. Her personality is anything but stupid. The "Minnesota nice" characterization is clear on 90210 especially, even Golden Girls with Rose. So nice and kind hearted. I remember the episode where Blanche is writing the novel and she's making fun of the Minnesota nice bit and Rose burns her in the end when she demonstrates how kind-hearted and decent Minnesotans are.

Then she comes back after the rant and goes, "Was I too harsh?"

I love Minnesotans. Everyone should have one as a pet, they're pretty and kind. Hee.

everwoodfan52

Where can I buy one?

jediwands

I'm a Cleveland native (though living in Minnesota) or else I would have said you already have me for free. Heh.

SPORTSUSA

Come on down our way and you can have your pick of the litter.

And Michelle, you are a Cleveland native but you're like an adopted Minnesotan in your own right.

'Tos

What do you think about the recent drama of the health care plan, fellow political nerds, hee?

And to go back to the international view of America as a conservative country, I think you both hit it with the fact that our left-wing parties, and even our right-wing parties, are so far left compared to yours. Our government up here is a Conservative party, but they're...actually probably closer to the Democrats than anything. And even further left in some issues, especially social issues. Unfortunately, the Democratic party still cannot promote a pro-gay marriage stance, while all of the left wing parties (and a lot of the right-wing parties) in other countries can. I actually think that fact is one of the bigger reasons why foreigners see America as conservative. We look at what happened in California, one of the more liberal states, with the Gay Marriage proposition, and we think, "If California couldn't pass a pro-gay marriage bill, than what does that say?" It's not a fair perception, I agree, but as a non-American, I do think the social issues are a big reason why the country as a whole is seen as conservative.