[Jerry D]

I wanted to reiterate that if they had Ephram get involved with Hannah for even one episode, it would have destroyed the friendships at the heart of the show, and I, for one, may have given up on the show right then and there. Dawson's Creek was ruined forever when Pacey and Joey got romantically involved, and I wouldn't have wanted to have seen Everwood ruined like that. I prolonged my own agony by continuing to watch Dawson's Creek after the Season Three Love Triangle and I saw it become a joke, and I wouldn't have wanted to see that happen to Everwood.

Like I said earlier, The CW Network is a crap Network which seems to love sensationalistic cheap drama, especially back then when Dawn Ostroff was in charge of it, so Everwood wouldn't have lasted on that Network, or it would have had to change into something unrecognizable to stay there.

Just think of the stories that we might have seen:

• Madison returning and probably wanting to involve Ephram in some scheme to get their baby back.
• Ephram and Hannah. This would have been a double betrayal: Ephram would be betraying his best friend Bright and Hannah would be betraying her best friend Hannah. No, no, no.
• What happened to Stephanie? I would have much preferred Ephram and Stephanie lasting a little longer than Ephram and Hannah. If the Ferris Wheel scene ended up with Amy standing out there all alone, wouldn't Stephanie still be in the picture?
• Nina pregnant with Jake's child. Talk about a soap opera!

All of those proposed storylines would make me want to tune out, and I'll bet that this board wouldn't even be here if we had gotten a Season Five with those storylines.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I'm reviving this thread in light of the fact that it seems that Edna didn't marry Irv until "A Kiss To Build a Dream On" but obviously she became involved with him and started living with him very soon after Harold Senior died.

Good idea, thank you!

I don’t think it was ever stated specifically how long after Harold Senior passed away Edna and Irv got involved but based on Harold’s initial disgust and words on the subject he says it was pretty quickly after his father died. It had to be tough on Harold because I couldn’t imagine my dad ever getting involved with another woman after my mom passed let alone so quickly like it seems Edna did with Harold. Mentally I was so fragile, it would have broken me even more.

Yes, and he definitely wouldn't like it.

Most certainly.

I completely agree. We did see that Harold craved, but never really got, his father's approval, (or at least his father never told him directly that he was proud of him but he did seem to tell other people as Harold learned in Everwood, Confidential) and his relationship with Bright seemed to mirror his relationship with his own father, and I'll bet that Harold Sr. favored Linda like Harold favored Amy. We often become our parents whether we realize it or not.

That’s so very true since psychology is very important and patterns can be clear. This is why I wish S2 would have taken the time to flesh out the Abbott family when Harold and Linda were children/teenagers. It really would have highlighted Harold and Edna all the more, especially after Irv’s death when they would be spending even more time together. There’s a lot of missing information we never received about the Abbott family back in the day. Linda’s story mostly revolved around Andy and her illness. You have Marcia Cross, Berlanti, you should have pounced on the Abbott family and put Tom and Marcia in as many scenes together as possible.

I know that we both really could so relate to this. I can say that you feeling this way isn't selfish at all, not one bit, and I should have responded to you sooner.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I wanted to reiterate that if they had Ephram get involved with Hannah for even one episode, it would have destroyed the friendships at the heart of the show, and I, for one, may have given up on the show right then and there. Dawson's Creek was ruined forever when Pacey and Joey got romantically involved, and I wouldn't have wanted to have seen Everwood ruined like that. I prolonged my own agony by continuing to watch Dawson's Creek after the Season Three Love Triangle and I saw it become a joke, and I wouldn't have wanted to see that happen to Everwood.

I will never understand why Berlanti was willing to play the game in order to make the merger. It was not necessary. He literally told the audience to trust him because it would all be short-term. Berlanti, what you apparently didn’t understand is even if Everwood had the quality and creative writing to effectively get things back on the right path, the audience would never forget these short-term soap opera storylines, how weirdly they would stick out as the anti-Everwood, the unrealistic crap thrown our way would not be believed or received well in the least no matter what.

Like I said earlier, The CW Network is a crap Network which seems to love sensationalistic cheap drama, especially back then when Dawn Ostroff was in charge of it, so Everwood wouldn't have lasted on that Network, or it would have had to change into something unrecognizable to stay there.

I truly believe the Universe saved Everwood.

Just think of the stories that we might have seen: Madison returning and probably wanting to involve Ephram in some scheme to get their baby back.

Nauseating especially since the Ferris Wheel and Amy standing there would have been ignored and then Ephram and Amy delayed even further. The only bright light was Madison truly coming across as evil. This storyline would have finished her. Big time.

Ephram and Hannah. This would have been a double betrayal: Ephram would be betraying his best friend Bright and Hannah would be betraying her best friend Hannah. No, no, no.

During this rewatch loving and embracing the Amy and Hannah friendship could you even IMAGINE Hannah doing that to Amy? Never! Plus, Hannah was an Ephram and Amy supporter from day one. That theme would have been killed, the Amy and Hannah friendship destroyed, and Hannah would have come across pathetically and backstabbing as well. I know a couple fans in the past oddly liked the possibility of Hannah and Ephram but they were not followers of the actual Ephram and Amy story which says it all. It would have been a disaster. I just can’t see Hannah ever going there, Amy ever forgiving her, the Hannah and Amy friendship being the same. Then there’s Bright… this is the guy not wanting a roommate at the beginning of S4 because he was waiting for Ephram. Bright NEVER would have forgiven Ephram if he even went on one date with Hannah. Ephram would have been lucky if he escaped Bright not tearing him to pieces with his fists, and no question, the friendship would be destroyed.

Even if the writers got everything back on track no one would believe it. The audience would not be satisfied.

What happened to Stephanie? I would have much preferred Ephram and Stephanie lasting a little longer than Ephram and Hannah. If the Ferris Wheel scene ended up with Amy standing out there all alone, wouldn't Stephanie still be in the picture?

I would have preferred Stephanie a little longer in S5.

Nina pregnant with Jake's child. Talk about a soap opera!

This one I do not understand. Berlanti said all of the proposed storylines would be very short-term. How is a pregnancy and baby a short-term storyline unless a miscarriage or abortion was involved? The storyline would never have tied up like the Madison storyline either because Nina would have kept the baby and Jake would forever be around as the father. That is not tying up a storyline. We waited years for Andy and Nina and would have to deal with this. Plus, look at Nina… two children with different fathers, one with a gay man who cheated on her, another who had major substance abuse issues and lied to her throughout their relationship. She actually was pregnant three times too and not one child biologically with Andy. Talk about a soap opera mess.

All of those proposed storylines would make me want to tune out, and I'll bet that this board wouldn't even be here if we had gotten a Season Five with those storylines.

Exactly.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post) I will never understand why Berlanti was willing to play the game in order to make the merger. It was not necessary. He literally told the audience to trust him because it would all be short-term. Berlanti, what you apparently didn’t understand is even if Everwood had the quality and creative writing to effectively get things back on the right path, the audience would never forget these short-term soap opera storylines, how weirdly they would stick out as the anti-Everwood, the unrealistic crap thrown our way would not be believed or received well in the least no matter what.

I guess that he may have been told by the future powers to be at the Completely Worthless Network that he had to "shake things up," or "spice things up" for the show to stay so he floated those ideas to them, but like you said, those short-term stories would have ruined the essence and heart of the show.

Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post) I truly believe the Universe saved Everwood.

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post) Nauseating especially since the Ferris Wheel and Amy standing there would have been ignored and then Ephram and Amy delayed even further. The only bright light was Madison truly coming across as evil. This storyline would have finished her. Big time.

I agree, but I really wouldn't have wanted to see her on the screen again. I'll never understand why they kept bringing back such a universally detested character.

Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post) During this rewatch loving and embracing the Amy and Hannah friendship could you even IMAGINE Hannah doing that to Amy? Never! Plus, Hannah was an Ephram and Amy supporter from day one. That theme would have been killed, the Amy and Hannah friendship destroyed, and Hannah would have come across pathetically and backstabbing as well. I know a couple fans in the past oddly liked the possibility of Hannah and Ephram but they were not followers of the actual Ephram and Amy story which says it all. It would have been a disaster. I just can’t see Hannah ever going there, Amy ever forgiving her, the Hannah and Amy friendship being the same. Then there’s Bright… this is the guy not wanting a roommate at the beginning of S4 because he was waiting for Ephram. Bright NEVER would have forgiven Ephram if he even went on one date with Hannah. Ephram would have been lucky if he escaped Bright not tearing him to pieces with his fists, and no question, the friendship would be destroyed.

Exactly. That would have destroyed the two key friendships at the heart of the show.

Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post) Even if the writers got everything back on track no one would believe it. The audience would not be satisfied.

Not at all, not at all.

Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post) I would have preferred Stephanie a little longer in S5.

Stephanie (or Stefergie as they called her on TWOP ) was a little annoying, but she was harmless and she had temporary written all over her, so I wouldn't have minded seeing her for a little longer in Season Five.

Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post) This one I do not understand. Berlanti said all of the proposed storylines would be very short-term. How is a pregnancy and baby a short-term storyline unless a miscarriage or abortion was involved? The storyline would never have tied up like the Madison storyline either because Nina would have kept the baby and Jake would forever be around as the father. That is not tying up a storyline. We waited years for Andy and Nina and would have to deal with this. Plus, look at Nina… two children with different fathers, one with a gay man who cheated on her, another who had major substance abuse issues and lied to her throughout their relationship. She actually was pregnant three times too and not one child biologically with Andy. Talk about a soap opera mess.

I really wouldn't have wanted to see yet another pregnancy mess after all we had to endure with the Madison pregnancy.

Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post) Exactly.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I guess that he may have been told by the future powers to be at the Completely Worthless Network that he had to "shake things up," or "spice things up" for the show to stay so he floated those ideas to them, but like you said, those short-term stories would have ruined the essence and heart of the show.

Oh, that’s precisely what happened. Berlanti even admitted the network wanted these changes to make the merger. He admitted as much in an interview and at the same time basically winked at the fandom saying I have to play the game but once we make the merger I will get things back to classic Everwood and conclude these storylines.

Absolutely. I agree, but I really wouldn't have wanted to see her on the screen again. I'll never understand why they kept bringing back such a universally detested character.

Especially since even before a possible S5 she was already a villain to most of the fandom.

Exactly. That would have destroyed the two key friendships at the heart of the show.

Complete destruction.

Not at all, not at all. Stephanie (or Stefergie as they called her on TWOP ) was a little annoying, but she was harmless and she had temporary written all over her, so I wouldn't have minded seeing her for a little longer in Season Five.

That nickname is perfect.

Yes, thankfully Ephram couldn’t even sleep with her because he still loved Amy. As long as that would have remained the case I wouldn’t have minded a little more Stephanie.

I really wouldn't have wanted to see yet another pregnancy mess after all we had to endure with the Madison pregnancy.

Nina pregnant would have been a disaster.

Thankfully the show concluded before it could have potentially been destroyed.