jediwands

Right.

That part was absolutely ridiculous.

Right! Which is crazy since Harold should always remember what Andy did becoming partners with him.

Yeah. I mean, that’s true.

I hated that in high school as well or in general canceling plans for a significant other that you see all the time anyway. Ephram really should have said let’s do something like a movie or out to dinner. Ephram was passive there. Yes, they both were kind of in the wrong overall. I guess that was the entire point. They needed time away from each other. See, that’s the thing… Bright basically “dumped” Ephram in the end. I think it was heading in that direction regardless and both of them knew it. It was even pointed out Bright wasn’t happy with random hook ups. Bright was basically acting out and to be honest I don’t think there was anything Ephram could’ve done to save the friendship during this time period. Ephram wasn’t why Bright was unhappy. Bright was why Bright was unhappy. This also goes right along with what Harold was afraid of. Harold tried to get Bright focused on college, etc. Bright said he was satisfied with his job, etc. We see in this episode that wasn’t true.

I’m kind of shocked Nina just didn’t call him out and say why are you acting like such a jackass, are you jealous?



That is true. And she didn’t even want to go along. She said no. It was Ephram who wanted her to. But that said, Ephram doesn’t like the party scene. Bright knows this. I think it goes along with my theory that Bright was crying out for help this episode. He wasn’t happy, he admits as much. I think deep down he said that so Ephram could see that he really wasn’t happy and the same thing with hooking up with random girls in his studio. It was a cry for help. In other words, he really didn’t want to spend time with Ephram. If he did he would have suggested things that they would both enjoy. No, I’m convinced now he was setting things up so he could dump Ephram due to unhappiness.

I love when Ephram said it isn’t mine and Amy’s all IT ISN'T MINE.

Excellent point. He really doesn’t, that’s so true. Then when he’ll ask her if she wants to say something it’s so beyond an appropriate time to go there or she just doesn’t think he will understand or get it so she doesn’t say anything.

True, but I think that’s the point. Like, all the more Nina would’ve been jealous. They could’ve just kept it strictly related to John but then shared a lot of talks together.

Great catch on the parallel. That’s so very true! This is why I could never hate Jake. Exactly what you pointed out.

Jerry D

I really enjoyed this heartwarming episode which touched upon the theme that of people often have to make sacrifices for the things and people that they love, and this theme resonated throughout this episode.

I liked the opening scene with Andy and Nina at Delia’s 11th birthday party, and it was hilarious when Andy caught Delia and a boy playing the game 7 Minutes in Heaven, kissing in a closet, and Andy, in character, frantically overreacted and embarassed Delia, and he gave that hapless boy Charlie “the speech” which he said he was still working on, and he escorted Charlie out of the party and left Nina is charge of it as he intended to take him home and confront his parents about what he had done.

We got to meet Amanda Hays, Charlie’s mother, for the first time and she was amused by Andy’s total overreaction to what Charlie and Delia had done, and he was unnecessarily harsh to her as he left in a huff. In both this scene and in the scene in his office, Andy once again demonstrated his knack of inserting his foot in his mouth when he confronted Amanda about what had happened, only to find out that her husband was severely disabled due to a stroke that he had. In their later scene together, when Andy went to apologize to Amanda for his boorish remarks to her, what really struck me was her honesty with Andy as she talked about everything she had given up while the town thought of her as being some type of saint for sticking by her invalid husband, and she talked about her mixed feelings and how helpless she often felt as she was virtually a prisoner in her own home in her role as caretaker for her husband, and Andy kindly told her that he understood and he offered to help her find some alternate therapies and treatments to help her husband. I really wish that Andy and Amanda had simply remained friends instead of embarking on an illicit love affair, because at this point, I really liked Amanda and I liked how Andy researched her husband’s affliction and he asked her to give him the chance to help him. I also thought that Anne Heche did an incredible job in this episode as Everwood’s ability to attract top-notch actors for every role on the show continued.

I thought that it was funny that Harold complained about Andy’s generosity at the diner and Nina revealed that Andy was still getting revenue from a medical clamp that he had invented and the ever-annoying Jake chimed in that he had also invented something that was bringing him revenue, prompting Harold to embark on a jealous mission to invent something on his own, as he came up with an idea to make flavored tongue depressors, trying them out on the ever patient Rose, and it was funny when Rose lovingly said that “you exhaust me dear,” and as always, I had to really give Rose credit for the loving support she showed her frantically neurotic husband. Overall though, I didn’t like seeing Harold reduced to simply being the comic relief in this episode, as he just looked silly throughout most of it, with the exception of when he told Andy about Amanda and her husband.

One thing that I really got to see in this episode was how Andy’s cluelessness and his failure to pick up on the obvious signals that Nina was giving him basically drove her to Jake, as she initially turned down Jake when he asked her out on a date, but when she told Andy that Jake had asked her out, he unwittingly hurt and insulted her by calling her a “solid woman,” and “the salt of the earth,” which led her to accept Jake’s date invitation after all. This cluelessness and his unwitting disregard for Nina’s feelings continued through this episode, and sometimes it’s really mind boggling how Andy can be incredibly sensitive and caring in one instance, like he was with Amanda tonight, and how he can be incredibly insensitive and thoughtless in another instance, like when he didn’t notice (or didn’t want to notice) how beautiful Nina looked in her dress when she was getting ready for her date with Jake, as we saw that she would have loved for him to compliment her on how nice she looked, but he instead made a comment about her “shedding all over the place.” I thought it was sweet that Hannah and Delia helped Nina get ready for her date, and Nina really did look beautiful. We saw that when Nina and Jake went on their date Nina revealed to Jake that she was in love with someone else but she hadn’t told him how she felt, and it was so obvious that the person she was in love with was Andy, and you could tell that she wanted to tell Andy that she was in love with him, but he was still in denial about his feelings for the obvious charms of this beautiful, kind, and wonderful woman and he kept saying the wrong things to her and hurting her feelings. I liked that Jake respected Nina’s feelings and that he told her that if she ever changed her mind, he’d be there for her, but I really wish that Andy would get a clue and see who he had standing right in front of him, instead of basically pushing her into the arms of Jake.

One of the sad parts about growing up is that you can grow apart from your friends, and we really got to see that happen with Bright and Ephram tonight. Now that Bright had graduated, and Ephram had been concentrating on his piano practicing, school work, and spending whatever free time he has with Amy, they had drifted apart, and things really came to a head between them due to their lack of communication and the lack of any real effort on both their parts to keep their friendship going, and although this development was sad to see, I also think it’s very realistic. I felt bad that Ephram turned down Bright’s invitation to a party he was going to because he wanted to spend time with Amy, and you could tell that Bright was hurt by the fact that Ephram had obviously discussed him with his sister, and everything escalated to the point where they exchanged harsh words with each other and Bright told him that he needed a break from him.

I was disappointed by the lack of Ephram and Amy scenes in this episode, but still, they did have some sweet scenes together, especially when she told Ephram that they could build a tent in the living room and never come out. I loved watching Ephram calm Amy down as she fretted about her S.A.T. scores, and once again, she really showed that she was Harold’s daughter in that scene, and her freaking out when she found the “hooker thong” was hilarious, and it was equally hilarious when Ephram said that “and for the record, that’s a long time to hold any stranger’s thong.” Still though, I think she was right when she told Ephram that he needed to talk to Bright if he wanted to salvage their friendship, and I really do enjoy watching any scene where Ephram and Amy are together.

I loved seeing how happy Amy was when she showed Harold and Rose her S.A.T. scores, and she attributed her success on the verbal portion of the S.A.T.’s to Harold teaching her special nursery rhymes when she was little where he substituted more difficult words for the regular words in those nursery rhymes, which prompted Harold to tell an exasperated Rose that he now had an idea to come up with more nursery rhymes and put them in a book.

I liked that Ephram confided in Andy about how Bright was mad at him and that he didn’t realize that he wasn’t there for him and that he had bailed on their friendship, and he said that he knew that he would have to give up a lot of things to play the piano, but he didn’t think that he would have to sacrifice his friends, because he thought that he could have it all. I loved that Andy said that the sacrifices that we make define us, and that his good friends would always find a way back to him, and I loved it when Ephram told him he could stay if he wanted to when Andy asked him if he wanted his space to himself.

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode and I’m looking forward to the next one.

everwoodfan52

It is sad that friends often grow apart and even some spouses. I just found the situation with Bright and Ephram especially sad. They came so far...from being enemies and bullying to growing respect and admiration. Ephram and Bright were opposites, but somehow it worked. I loved the friends they became....even though Bright didn't always give the best advice and Ephram was often overbearing with his ranting and raving about his love life. But....they were a constant. So...even though at this time it was inevitable...I found it really heartbreaking.
:

The first thing I thought of when I saw the Amy's utter joy in this scene was What a Contrast from her Season 2 Depression. Amy was back and how joyous her family must have felt.

everwoodfan52

I really think she was. She pretty much said that he and Bright have moved on and friendships end. Amy encouraged Ephram to confront Bright.
You know me....I would have given Bright the benefit of the doubt and told Ephram to try to work it out.

jediwands

I love this theme because it's so true to life. It's a challenging part of life, even.

Treat, Stephanie and Vivien were so good in this scene. LOL. It was so much fun putting aside whether Andy was right or wrong or a little of both.

Indeed. I agree with your every thought. Anne Heche was brilliant in this part. Even her nonverbal communication was captivating. I was hanging on her every word. The chemistry between Treat and Anne was there as well. I loved the honesty. I love how Amanda was made to look like a saint but when she admitted very honest, human flawed traits to Andy it made the story even more compelling. She wanted to be "human" and express her true feelings and she did just that with Andy. All I kept thinking about while watching her and Andy interact is how much I wish they would have remained friends only. Just discussing John, helping him, having continued heart and to hearts (Andy could have even confessed the Madison babygate nightmare to her), and maybe just maybe one night almost slipping up but not ultimately going there in the end. Wow, what a storyline it would have been. As I stated, if they remained platonic all the more Nina would have been bothered by their dynamic since it would have been very close to what she shared with Andy (in her mind) even if it would have been different. Like I said, it could have revolved around getting John better but with a growing emotional friendship that almost slips but doesn't and the audience would appreciate both characters and their situations all the more.

I didn't like it at all either. I only liked his scene with Amy about a childhood memory and the scenes with Rose. Otherwise, it was a ridiculous storyline for Harold. I would have preferred getting both Edna and Irv from the closet they have been shoved into, and showing them on some sort of adventure instead. Actually a roadtrip adventure with Edna/Irv and Rose/Harold would have been fun. Something, anything, but what we received with Harold and the lame invention thing that was never going anywhere. I don't like it because it diminishes what Harold and his late father did for the town. He doesn't need to be "bigger" in Everwood. He is fine just like he is, as we witnessed him saving a woman just knowing her history that Jake messed up and created a bleeding ulcer for her. This invention thing kind of pokes at Harold's importance as an MD within the town.

Excellent thoughts! Nothing to add, just too perfect as is.

Overall, I thought it was a very realistic situation that can happen between friends once college enters the picture or you are finished with high school.

Anna has a set of friends she is super close with... there are four of them since literally preschool that have known each other. Anna is still close with two of them, the third one she sees periodically but not like it once was. At least they are still friendly and talk on text but overall, the friendship has changed. If this happened with this foursome, it can happen to anyone. It is a sad reality. People grow, change, and some do move on and go in different directions.

I find myself always wanting more when it comes to Ephram and Amy. I find their amount of scenes appropriate given the episode, the storytelling was perfect. But at the same time, it would have been wonderful if we would have received more moments between them. Overall, I continue to be proud of how Berlanti treated Ephram and Amy. I have never seen a more realistic romantic relationship on either screen. Their foundation shines and gets them through anything. Even Madisongate, yes, even that trash. They had a temporary situation and break (which was so outlandish) but they found their way back. What a golden TV pairing that still, in the present, gets acknowledged by many critics.

What a cute scene!

Amy is glowing! She deserves it so much.

This scene was so beautiful, everything about it. I was waiting for some bright light to start shining upon them, it was so gorgeous.

I did as well. I love Season Three so much, minus Madisongate.

jediwands

I am going to look again at what she said:

I wanted to show the "Hooker Thong" part as well.

I do love when Ephram says that's a long time to hold any stranger's thong.

Regarding what Amy says to Ephram... I don't know? I never viewed it as Amy telling Ephram to throw in the towel. I think she was saying overall, sht happens, talk to him. LOL. But it could be interpreted different ways too.

PS: Gosh is this scene golden.

Amy is like YAY, finally I can calm down, I passed, smooth sailing, peace! Then she finds the thong.

Ephram's response initially is hilarious too.

Like I mentioned, I just LOVE how Amy believed Ephram's explanation, no questions asked. Like, she knew the second he stated it was Bright it was over. It was fine. Then they go into "friendship mode" and discuss Bright and Ephram's situation with Bright. Man, they have so much depth and layers.

They are so cute, I can't stand it.

Jerry D

I agree with your interpretation Michelle.

It really was such a funny scene!

Bright was such a player, so that's why I really couldn't see him and Hannah becoming a couple. Yes, opposites can attract, but to me, they were just too opposite, especially when it came to their attitudes about sex.

jediwands

Exactly. I also think Rina threw in Bright having these hook ups to also show how different he is so when he gets together with Hannah, we see their differences all the more. It is interesting that it isn't until right now, early S3, that we discover Bright is actually having sex. It is kind of insinuated a little bit earlier than this time frame he could be going there, but we see it cemented and official in 3.5. In addition to showing Bright's unhappiness, I also think it was in preparation for Bright and Hannah too. The audience had to officially know Bright was having sex before he got together with Hannah. Which also leads to the question of did Rina (and Berlanti) always set up Bright and Hannah as doomed? The audience sees the differences. On paper, some believe it was so unrealistic they got together in the first place. Is that precisely what Rina and Berlanti were going for? Not a relationship that was ever meant to last? Thus, the cheating too along with not reuniting romantically in the end, and ending up as friends with a cute bond but romance was never truly in the cards, long-term??

Jerry D

Excellent question, but it's really hard to say. I remember that you said that Rina said that Hannah was based on her High School self, so maybe she liked the idea of her getting the handsome and athletic guy of her dreams, but I feel that Bright and Hannah were too mismatched to be a long-term couple. It was left ambiguous as to whether they would get back together when the show ended, but it seemed to be leaning that way as Hannah was going to stay in Colorado, but I just don't see them working as a long-term couple. Besides the differences that they had concerning sex and religion, Hannah was an extremely intelligent and bookish introvert, and Bright was . . . . Bright. Teresa and I have different interests (I love to write and she loves to crochet) but we're on the same level in many other ways, but Bright and Hannah were on totally different levels.

jediwands

Yes, Rina said that Hannah was written as her high school self. She did not date Bright types but she liked Bright types. So I think we can deduce that she never imagined Hannah ending up with Bright if we go by her own personal experiences. Yes, they are definitely different in many ways, not just intimacy. They were oil and water and it was never changing. Harold and Rose were different people overall but they also shared traits too and their differences only complemented each other. This would never be a Bright and Hannah scenario.

Jerry D

It definitely is.

If I was the father of an 11 year old girl I'd probably freak out like Andy did. That does seem really young for children to be engaging in that kind of activity. It was done for comical purposes, but I could see where Andy was coming from.

I completely agree. I would have loved to have seen them develop a friendship instead of engaging in an illicit affair. Andy doing that really made me think less of him.

I really don't like it when the shows goes out of its way to make Harold look like a buffoon. They did that with Bright a lot of times too, where they even had some of the other characters, like Ephram and Amy in the plane scene, basically call him an idiot.

Thanks so much!

It was definitely a very realistic situation. It's a sad fact that many people will come and go in your life.

I feel the same way, especially since I know what's coming later in this season and knowing that they'll be apart for all of Season Four until the very last scene in the very last episode.

It really was a cute scene, but I'll bet that Harold never spent time with Bright teaching him nursery rhymes with harder words substituted. The difference in the way that Harold and treated Amy versus how he treated Bright always made me sad.

It really was a beautiful scene.

I feel the exact same way.

Jerry D

That's a good comparison between Bright and Hannah and Harold and Rose. Rose was more level-headed than Harold and she wasn't pompous like Harold, but they shared the same basic values, which wasn't the case at all with Bright and Hannah.

Alexa

Okay, fair point,that was a bit of an overreaction, but I found his speech ot the kid kind of funny . But yeah, the way he talked to Delia was embarrassing.

Betty I think Ephram was trying to understand Bright but he just was not really opening up and just masking all this uncertainly in trying to party and stuff. i feel lik ehe and ephram bonded because he wasn't doing that as mch last year maybe idk. Now they are just back on different pages...

Alexa

I kinda forgot about them . But you are right. Jake is getting more screen time than Delia and Rose too.. meh. WHY did they love this freaking character so much???


It's really hard when you are at different places with your friends. All my friends for example are married, have houses, have kids and yeah, im still single and working and dont want kids and for a while was still interested in going out and having fun etc (though lately i just wanna stay home and watch netflix lmao) But yeah, its hard to be around people that dont really understand your lifestyle.


But they kinda deserved it??? lmao. Having the audacity to think you could just make out with guys liek that???? excuseeee meeee. Sorry I would be pissed lmao.

And like, really Jake? You still want to date her? Shes clearly rebounding.

Alexa

I kinda like how subtle they are together, but I am wondering why they havent had the sex talk yet? I mean theyve been together for a while and ephram is not a virgin. and he doesnt know amy is, does he? I find it odd it hasnt come up yet.