JJH85

I can add this to the OP if you guys want me to or perhaps pandiexjeyton can since she opened this Thread.

Forwood4Bamon

If you want to do it Justyne you can.

JJH85

I added that link to the OP, but I didn't want to just plunk it without any explanation, so this is what I put. If you guys don't like it or want to change it just let me know.

Was Joey part of the problem? https://swonderfulsmarvellous.wordpr...peside-sucked/

TL22

Thank You

JJH85

My pleasure

Forwood4Bamon

What is a strong foundation taubman?

pacenjen

What I never got was the conversation P&J had in the finale in the kitchen. When Joey makes reference of always running ( haven't watched it in the long time so not 100% sure of what exactly she says but I know she references like she is always running). Running from who? Pacey? When did she ever run from Pacey? You can totally tell that conversation professing her feelings was totally meant for Dawson. What I am trying to say here is that scene was totally meant for Dawson and Joey ending up together as what was being said was more appropriate to their relationship and history. This tells me the finale was changed at last minute and didn't even have the chance to change the dialogue. Kevin totally wrote that with a D/J ending I know it! lol I know Keven wanted it to end with D/J just like we did and how it should have. Still bugs me to this day how it ended. So out of nowhere! grrrrr

AsgardianJane

The Off the Hook speech was written for Pacey and Joey but I don't think it was written by Kevin. I could be wrong but I'm sure on the DVD they said it was someone else. And they chopped it up and rearranged it anyway in editing. Because they were trying to keep the suspense of the choice going they really couldn't have her say what she feels for Pacey as it would give it away. The line about her love for Dawson being innocent and childish was meant to be contrasted with her saying her love for Pacey was like a 'woman loves a man'.

As far as when it was changed, we know that the first half was written for DJo, so up until Jen gets sick. They were filming it as two separate episodes so the first half was shooting and they were writing the second half when Kevin had his epiphany.

I wrote an Off The Hook cheat sheet a few weeks ago showing where the speech echoes other PJo scenes http://www.fanforum.com/84273501-post177.html

TL22

Most of the last two episodes were written for Dawson/Joey. When KW made the change to much was filmed for TPTB to throw the scrip out.

The faux Dawson/Joey wedding was supposed to be real and the very last scene was suppose to be Pacey and Andie going off to dinner, not as lovers but as friends with maybe a hint the relationship would change.

What is sad; Meredith Monroe who was filming something else moved heaven and earth to be there for just one day. KW wanted her, only to have her scenes cut from the final (TV version)

Also what is interesting is that Meredith Monroe is credited for 3 scenes, but you can only find 2 of them.

What I think and I have no proof is the missing scene is Pacey and Andie going off to dinner.

AsgardianJane

I listened to the finale commentary for you to get the full story

- They were rewriting part 2 as it was shooting. Not all of part 2 needed the re-write, most of the Jen stuff and all the Jack/Doug stuff was good to go. There aren't as many as you think, the food fight, the Jen hospital scenes with Pacey and Joey, the Off the Hook speech, the last soulmate speech with Dawson, the last scene with Pacey and Joey on the phone, the Pacey/Andie dialogue. The plot backbone was done, they just needed to rejig the triangle scenes. They didn't just change names on the script.

- The Dawson/Joey wedding was never real. Where does is say that? In the commentary Paul Stupin calls it 'playful', Kevin Williamson says 'I wanted to have fun with this...its my way of making fun of the whole teen genre and also summing up the characters and their lives and giving a big old wink, we know what we are up to' DJo were never going to get married. Neither were PJo, the trailers just made it look that way. 'We knew they would throw these in the promo and tease the audience' -KW Part 1 was never re-written, it was too late for that.

- Everything in the second hour is hinting to PJo. Everything in the first hour is for DJo eg, the look Grams and Bessie share when Joey says 'If he's not the one then who is', the dancing where he says he's happy he still makes her nervous, when she hugs him to 'Say Goodnight'.

'What is different between the first hour and this hour is that we clearly knew who ends up with who and all the signs point to it'- Kevin Williamson

-Julie Plec wrote the Off the Hook speech. Off the Hook is definitely from scratch.

'I must tell you I rewrote this again and again and again, heaven forbid, I have to tell you who is responsible for this sequence, this little monologue he gives, Julie Plec...she came back and started spitting out 'No, here is what Pacey should say' and I'm sitting here typing in the trailer while we were filming another movie. 'Pacey should say you're off the hook' and she just spouted it all out and I was like slow down, slow down and I'm typing as fast as I can and finally I get up and and I say sit down and you write it. ... Joey's response gives her decision away so what the brilliant Paul Stupin did was re-edit it and moved one statement above the other statement and brought one down so its more confusing than ever...She plays it as if she's telling him 'Its you honey'...We wanted to hold the suspense to the last beat...[on the 'the way a Woman loves a man' line] It was too definitive. 'Dawson and I was a childhood love, innocent and pure. Me loving you was the first time I loved a man as a woman.' and that gave it away.' -Kevin Williamson

- There are sorta three Andie scenes, when she is re-introduced to Jen, when she is talking to Pacey, when she is with Jack as Jen dies. KW says he re-wrote the scene of her and Pacey so he knew it was PJo before her day's filming making it unlikely the dinner scene got filmed.

Not all the deleted scenes are in the extended cut though just the ones cut for time.

ChristinaL80

I never saw that quote before. It really should be in the pro-PJ thread.

Butterfly85

Thanks for all that info Asgardianjane, a little of that I didn't know. Almost 13 years later and some still can't let go of the fact that Pacey and Joey ended up together *Kanye Shrug*

JJH85

That part bothers me too. They should have left her scenes in out of respect if nothing else. I'm just glad they ended up incorporated into the DVD and not just as a "Deleted Scene".

AsgardianJane

Its OK! I always find it weird as a PJo-er that they kept saying that PJo and Djo inclined writers would have massive arguments in the writers room because it always seemed to me that DJo won. Like it wasn't until Kevin came in that they thought they could change the ending because DJo is what Kevin wanted. (see Coda and Swan Song) They felt that they had to convince him to change it in the end. I think Coda and Swan Song were death for DJo fans, you can't end the series the same way three years running so the writers decided to euthanise both DJo and PJo in season 6 before Kevin came along and made the decision that Joey would choose.

Forwood4Bamon

I dont get how PJ was good together. That I will never get. Everytime I rewatch them, they get more and more boring, never resolving anything when they fight and how she makes him better I will never know. Things were always circling between them. I don't think they should have gone back to them season 6. Even in 6.18 she chose Eddie over him.