[GrhmLz]

Originally Posted by Slayerfan714 (View Post) Of course and I wasn't trying to be offensive. I think what you suggested, a combination of both. If you do just one, then you're probably setting them up for failure. I think teenagers need to know their options simply because they are having sex and the issue is lack of communication. Pregnancy isn't even the big issue, the bigger one is STD's. That would be my fear is that is goes untreated because the person is somehow being made to feel ashamed for having sex and when it comes to that, you can't ignore it. Or even pregnancy. You can't ignore it and not getting prenatal care can be very very dangerous. I'm not condoning simply waving condoms and saying "Here, have a bunch of sex" but I wouldn't want kids ignoring the consequence of sex either, you know? Which is why I brought up Donna's argument in BH 90210. She was a virgin who believed in waiting, but understood that there should be some information regarding safety. I don't think promoting abstinence is backwards. I just don't know how realistic it is, just like it's probably not realistic to expect everyone who supposedly knows all about safe sex to engage in safe sex. There's downsides to both methods for sure. And in the end, kids are going to do what they want to do.

No worries, I didn't think you were coming off offensive, but I did get the sense that the episode itself was trying to stick it to the idea of 'abstinence' underhandedly ~ undermining it like it's wrong and the worst idea in the world, which obviously, I don't agree with.

I honestly think it depends on how it's being taught and handled universally, which, let's be frank, isn't the same everywhere. Personally, I think the issues with sex and society start elsewhere before teens even get to sex ed class {aka. values taught in the home, what becomes more accepted in society etc + peer pressure}.

I'll be honest with you, the example with Donna on 90210 always irked me in 20|20 hindsight down the road, because as someone who believes in waiting and has done so, I used to admire Donna as a character very early on for representing on TV those of us out there with that belief|value system and what did the show do?! Turn around and stomped on that and had Donna sleep with David out of marriage later on down the road anyway ~ after he had already cheated on her. I always felt like they made such a mockery and a joke out of the representation of those of us who did hold to those beliefs and almost made fun by sending the message: See, nobody ever waits!

But for the purposes of what Donna said and was getting at, I don't believe in keeping people|teens ignorant about sex, lol. There should be basic knowledge and information provided on the facts ~ and some of it can't even really be taught, which I think is the emotional side to it, which I suspect is more complicated. I think were it gets sticky isn't with the 'teaching' aspect, but crossing over into handing out condoms and birth control, and some of the more graphic and controversial approaches {not happening everywhere mind you} almost sending out the message like 'everybody is going to do it. Here you go and this is how we are going to encourage you to do it.'

Here's the thing with STD's, though. The reason they are so prelevant, is because so many people are just opting to have sex, and with multiple partners. I know this is an ideal notion, but logically speaking the reality is there would be no such thing as contractable STD's if everyone 'ideally' waited. No way to spread it like that. Like I said, I know it's an ideal form of a reality, but it's still based in truth, so that's the only reason I'm pointing it out.

As for the pregnancy aspect, I personally find that just as troublesome. Teens are in no position to be raising children, too many issues have arisen out of it in society, at least, I think so, with this rising socially acceptable trend. I'm all for helping the needy, I've been poor myself, but more goes out to public welfare on a long term basis, more and more grandparents are doing the raising of grandkids, children growing up in broken homes without their mothers and fathers. The whole thing I find just so sad.

Hey, just some slightly different perspectives we have on it.

But, phew, didn't mean to completely go off with all those points, just got into it, but for the purposes of this thread, these are probably some of the issues I would have opted to address with 'Daphne' when debating some of her own points in support of her views.

[Slayerfan714]

No worries, I didn't think you were coming off offensive, but I did get the sense that the episode itself was trying to stick it to the idea of 'abstinence' underhandedly ~ undermining it like it's wrong and the worst idea in the world, which obviously, I don't agree with.

I can understand that. A lot of the times it does feel like a show comes from a certain perspective and the other vantage point seems backhanded.

I honestly think it depends on how it's being taught and handled universally, which, let's be frank, isn't the same everywhere. Personally, I think the issues with sex and society start elsewhere before teens even get to sex ed class {aka. values taught in the home, what becomes more accepted in society etc + peer pressure}.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, let's be real, there's a double standard when it comes to teaching boys and girls about sex. Even more conservative type parents like say John and Kathryn seem more liberal about it when it came to Toby. Like sure, just give him a big 'ol box of condoms, but lock that chastity belt tight on your girls. So I do absolutely think it starts with the values in the home and what is taught.

And society has also changed. Teenagers having sex has always been there, but I remember when I entered college and hearing about 11 and 12 year olds engaging in sexual activities and whatnot and that is just way too young. And then the whole "friends with benefit" trend came into play along with "hooking up" and it seemed to take sex from something you do with your boyfriend/girlfriend who you love to just doing it with whomever which is a bit alarming. And as hooking up and sex without emotional attachment has become more popular, you're going to see STD's rising and unwanted pregnancies. Not that teenagers in serious committed relationships don't face the same problems, but it does seem like it's gone in a FWB/hook up direction which leads to different problems such as not knowing enough about your sexual partner's history and how many people they have been with. At least when it's with a longterm bf/gf you assume they have had "the talk" and discussed being safe or you hope they would.

It was probably why people assumed or feared Simone would get pregnant because that hook up happened in such a spontaneous manner that it would have been easy for them to not think about protection.

I'll be honest with you, the example with Donna on 90210 always irked me in 20|20 hindsight down the road, because as someone who believes in waiting and has done so, I used to admire Donna as a character very early on for representing on TV those of us out there with that belief|value system and what did the show do?! Turn around and stomped on that and had Donna sleep with David out of marriage later on down the road anyway ~ after he had already cheated on her. I always felt like they made such a mockery and a joke out of the representation of those of us who did hold to those beliefs and almost made fun by sending the message: See, nobody ever waits!

Yeah. I am happy Donna ended up with David but when she tells him "You waited" it seemed like a huge retcon. Uh, no, Donna. He didn't wait. He cheated and then was involved in quite a few sexual relationships while you two were apart. Not that she really had to wait until marriage, but that line always struck me as odd.

But for the purposes of what Donna said and was getting at, I don't believe in keeping people|teens ignorant about sex, lol. There should be basic knowledge and information provided on the facts ~ and some of it can't even really be taught, which I think is the emotional side to it, which I suspect is more complicated. I think were it gets sticky isn't with the 'teaching' aspect, but crossing over into handing out condoms and birth control, and some of the more graphic and controversial approaches {not happening everywhere mind you} almost sending out the message like 'everybody is going to do it. Here you go and this is how we are going to encourage you to do it.'

Yeah that's what I meant. Not to keep them ignorant about it. And that was in the 90s when HIV/AIDS was much more prevalent than it is now. Not that HIV and AIDS doesn't exist, but it's not talked about as much as it was then. And you're correct that a lot of it can't be taught, which was why Regina had the best approach when it came to talking with Bay. Don't get me wrong, telling someone sex is and should be special is all well and good, but it can't and won't always save a relationship. And it sucks when society deems it the way for a girl to keep her boyfriend. Going back to 90210, Donna had a conversation with Brenda and Kelly where she said she had nothing to "hold" David with and I liked that Brenda responded "You can't hold onto a guy with sex. I'm living proof of that." Which is true.

Here's the thing with STD's, though. The reason they are so prelevant, is because so many people are just opting to have sex, and with multiple partners. I know this is an ideal notion, but logically speaking the reality is there would be no such thing as contractable STD's if everyone 'ideally' waited. No way to spread it like that. Like I said, I know it's an ideal form of a reality, but it's still based in truth, so that's the only reason I'm pointing it out.

Of course, however, if people used the proper precautions it also wouldn't be spread. In an ideal world, people would wait and if they didn't, they would use protection. The thing is, we really can't ever know if someone is being truthful regarding the use of contraceptives. They may lie and say "Oh, yeah, we use them" when in reality, they don't. So I guess there really is no tried and true way to find out if it's due to sex in general or unprotected sex.

Hey, just some slightly different perspectives we have on it. But, phew, didn't mean to completely go off with all those points, just got into it, but for the purposes of this thread, these are probably some of the issues I would have opted to address with 'Daphne' when debating some of her own points in support of her views.

It's fine. It is just that, different perspectives.

If it makes you feel better, I'm sure it'll continue to be a storyline, so maybe someone like Nikki will bring up those points with Daphne. Not that it will necessarily change her mind, but this way it won't seem like the other POV isn't being given it's chance.

[EyesOnFire]

I really liked Daphne the other night, mostly due to her scene with Parker. She was able to not only accept Parker's mistakes and not judge her, but to acknowledge that she made a mistake with Jeff.
She's matured a lot since the whole Chef Jeff incident.

I'm also really happy that she admitted to being wrong about not standing up for Bay at the Uprising.

[Slayerfan714]

Originally Posted by EyesOnFire (View Post) I really liked Daphne the other night, mostly due to her scene with Parker. She was able to not only accept Parker's mistakes and not judge her, but to acknowledge that she made a mistake with Jeff. She's matured a lot since the whole Chef Jeff incident. I'm also really happy that she admitted to being wrong about not standing up for Bay at the Uprising.

Agreed.

The only iffy part I had was I'm not sure telling Jace it was Parker was a good idea. She may have told him not to say anything, but I have a feeling if they don't find something some other way, he'd use that.

I think they are foreshadowing Jace finding out about Daphne and Jeff too and how he will view her. At the time, Daphne thought she was in love, but now she realizes it wasn't love and that can be a mark against her in a future relationship. We all say we don't want to judge or we won't judge, but things like learning your SO was, as a teenager, involved with someone twelve years older can throw you for a loop. So, it will be interesting to see where they go with this.

[Forwood4Bamon]

Daphne's cochlear implant was interesting.

[EyesOnFire]

It was.

I liked Kathryn's guilt about not having her learn ASL and being involved in the Deaf Community.

I actually felt really bad for Daphne tonight. Regina certainly was right about keeping the Switch a secret for as long as she did considering how... damaged Daphne ended up being after the Kennish's took her.

[Slayerfan714]

I always find it fascinating when they cut the sound sometimes when it's either Daphne or Emmett.

Baby Daphne had no idea what was going on, she couldn't understand these people, she had been ripped from her mom and the only home she had known. It made me pause and go wow.

[EyesOnFire]

It certainly makes sense as to why she was miserable in the first few months following her being switched back.

Gone from a world where her mom made very careful efforts in regards to communication, and dropped into a world where she was surrounded by hearing privilege and... ignorance about communicating with a young deaf child. No wonder she was unhappy.

I like having those occasional sound cuts. It offers a good perspective on situations I don't experience. It was even more jarring to see it from the perspective of a young child.

[Slayerfan714]

Yes exactly!

It does offer a unique experience and yes, especially for a child.

[EyesOnFire]

I just wanted to scoop baby Daphne up and tell her everything is going to be ok.

I'm still a bit surprised how much I actually like AU!Daphne. I though for sure she was going to be this mega witch who deserved to feel miserable.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by EyesOnFire (View Post) I just wanted to scoop baby Daphne up and tell her everything is going to be ok. I'm still a bit surprised how much I actually like AU!Daphne. I though for sure she was going to be this mega witch who deserved to feel miserable.

Me, too, on both accounts.

[fly me to the moon]

It's very interesting to see if she stay w/ them when she was little and she doesn't use sign and stuff like that even though money don't give her happiness, so she try to fill it to make herself feel good..

[*OldHollywoodStarlet*]

Originally Posted by Slayerfan714 (View Post) The only iffy part I had was I'm not sure telling Jace it was Parker was a good idea. She may have told him not to say anything, but I have a feeling if they don't find something some other way, he'd use that. I think they are foreshadowing Jace finding out about Daphne and Jeff too and how he will view her. At the time, Daphne thought she was in love, but now she realizes it wasn't love and that can be a mark against her in a future relationship. We all say we don't want to judge or we won't judge, but things like learning your SO was, as a teenager, involved with someone twelve years older can throw you for a loop. So, it will be interesting to see where they go with this.

Agree pretty much with this whole post.

I'm just not feeling the relationship between Daphne and Jace at all. Personally I really hope Noah comes back.


I've been pretty happy with the last two episodes for Katie/Daphne.

One of my favorite moments in the episode for her was the scenes with Parker. and the comments to she made to Jace concerning her. About mistakes and choices.

The last episode Katie was AMAZING! For having just having one episode she was able to give that version of Daphne so many layers. I loved her as much as the real world Daphne. I don't think I could pick one scene because everything was done so well. She was named performer of the week which was totally deserved.


Katie Leclerc of ‘Switched at Birth’ — TVLine’s Performer of the Week - TVLine

Agree with quiet a bit of the article especially how characters like Daphne can be a thankless job a lot of the time. I was going to quote some of the article, but I end up practically quoting the whole thing.

Originally Posted by EyesOnFire (View Post) It certainly makes sense as to why she was miserable in the first few months following her being switched back. Gone from a world where her mom made very careful efforts in regards to communication, and dropped into a world where she was surrounded by hearing privilege and... ignorance about communicating with a young deaf child. No wonder she was unhappy. I like having those occasional sound cuts. It offers a good perspective on situations I don't experience. It was even more jarring to see it from the perspective of a young child.

Completely agree. In some ways I don't think she truly understood how empty and hollow she was until Bay pointed out to her.

[Slayerfan714]

Agree pretty much with this whole post. I'm just not feeling the relationship between Daphne and Jace at all. Personally I really hope Noah comes back.

Me either. I don't know. He just gives off bad vibes, even if he is trying to let people know what a scumbag Coto is. And yes, Parker got herself into this situation, but I don't know if that necessarily should equate to her being ruined in the public eye and I feel for Jace, he would use it to his advantage.

Katie did to a very good job. It has to be difficult playing a character for two years and getting to know them and know what makes them tick and then all of the sudden, changing those quirks and ticks.

Completely agree. In some ways I don't think she truly understood how empty and hollow she was until Bay pointed out to her.

Exactly. It's why I don't always accept the argument that someone has it better because of money. More opportunities? Sure, but that doesn't mean they aren't hiding their pain in empty hollow ways like Daphne was.

[*OldHollywoodStarlet*]

Originally Posted by Slayerfan714 (View Post) Me either. I don't know. He just gives off bad vibes, even if he is trying to let people know what a scumbag Coto is. And yes, Parker got herself into this situation, but I don't know if that necessarily should equate to her being ruined in the public eye and I feel for Jace, he would use it to his advantage. Katie did to a very good job. It has to be difficult playing a character for two years and getting to know them and know what makes them tick and then all of the sudden, changing those quirks and ticks. Exactly. It's why I don't always accept the argument that someone has it better because of money. More opportunities? Sure, but that doesn't mean they aren't hiding their pain in empty hollow ways like Daphne was.

Agree about the vibes. He just rubs me the wrong way. At first he seemed interesting, but just his attitude and the way he treats Daphne, didn't like it. I see a bit of a pattern here too with how Chef Jeff treated her.

Parker seems really young too.


What I love about the AU is that she added the real version of Daphne to it. It was subtle, but there. It just manifested differently and stronger in some areas of her personality.


Completely agree.